Gould,

I checked out Nor'westing Magazine and it appeared to be a first class
regional boating magazine. I was surprised to see your magazine selling
reprints of their reviews, you normally don't see regional boating magazines
having the leverage to allow them to sell their reviews as an additional
source of income. I have normally only seen this done with national
magazines. This speaks highly of the reputation of your magazine in the
northwest.

While it is great for boating magazines, it does highlight the importance of
understanding how boating magazines, including yours, make a profit. The
selling price of the magazine does not begin to cover the costs, so
advertising and selling reprints of the articles are the only way magazine
owners can make money. Since no one will pay to advertise in a magazine
that demeans their product, or pay for reprints of a poor review or PR
article, it is important that the consumer realize the real relationship
between boating magazines and boating suppliers. This is not an attack on
you or any boating magazine.

By the way, I also read a number of your reviews, and all I read had that
nice homey personal feel that I and many others like. It is like you are
talking to friends and family. So don't take any of my comments personally,
I like the articles you post in rec.boats I find them enjoyable and well
written.


"Jon Smithe" wrote in message news:...
Gould,

I was not trying to pick a fight with anyone, and was meant to support
your magazine position in running the infomercial.. I was responding to
someone's comment in which he said " Chuck, was that an advertisement?
I read a lot of nice words, but didn't
see any test results or other statistics to support the claims."

My reply was "It's a PR piece for a new product. "Articles" like this is
very common in
all boating magazines. .Normally they agree to run so many ads if the
magazine agrees to run the piece."

Your reply was "You don't know a goddam thing about boats, and don't even
begin to
insinuate you know anything about boating magazines."
In other posts you continue to make personal insults and were trying to
pick a fight. I continued to keep the discussion on topic about boating
magazines.

As far as you comment about the editor asking you to write the piece,
didn't you say your editor asked you to give the president of the company
a call? If not, how did you hear about the product and get the presidents
name and telephone number so you 'interview" him?

Even though you obviously was the one trying to start a fight, I have
deliberately stayed away from a fight and keep the discussion on topic.

As you can see from the all other replies everyone agreed that this is the
typical well written PR piece run by boating magazines.

Again, I am amazed at how upset you became when I made my supporting
comment. I have done everything to keep this on a discussion about
boating magazines, you have made this into a discussion of personalities
and not issues. According to your standards, repeated often in this NG,
that is only done when someone believes they have lost the argument.





"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Gould,
I hate to tell you this, but you are the one uniformed. The question is
why
are you so upset if your publisher asked you to write a "fluff" article

My publisher seldom asks me to write anything. I have full editorial
discretion.
That's a concept you probably wouldn't understand, as all you can seem to
write
are snide personal remarks about other people.

Why don't you get back over to the OT political threads where you belong,
and
stop trying to pick fights and start personal arguments in an on-topic
thread?

You want to bitch about my personal or political philosophies, fine. Do
it
where it's appropriate. Trying to hijack a thread into a personal
squabble is
*exactly* what your very favorite participant in the NG is famous for. Is
part
of your fixation on that person a burning desire to emulate his behavior?

It sounded like all
of the "reviews" in boating magazines.


It wasn't a product review, it was an informational interview and
represented
as such.

I'd think a guy who claims to be an expert
on writing and publishing, as well as a mind-reader, would know the
difference.

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:56:23 GMT, "Jon Smithe"
wrote:

SWS,

It sounds like you know what you are talking about, but what did I say was a
lie? It was all fluff with out really saying anything. When someone cuts
the gauge on metal, they put in "strengthen" ridges or corrugation type
folds to make up for lack of strength, hence "the unique process".

If someone is towing a boat with the family car, weight is important
consideration.

I don't think I lied, I just emphasized the positive and ignored the fact
that the T-Top will not be able to take a lot of excess stress, such as one
might find in strong winds or a careless boater grabbing the T-Top.

Upon reflection, I take that back.

Good point.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 09:34:04 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On 17 Oct 2004 05:23:20 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
The 210-amp Meridian battery weighs 131 pounds. That calculates at 1.60 amps
per pound.

A 225-amp West Marine gel cell battery weighs 161 pounds, delivering only 1.39
amps per pound.

The 245-amp West Marine AGM battery weighs 158 pounds, rivaling but not
equaling the Meridian amp/pound output at 1.55 amps per pound.

The West Marine 12-volt flooded cell 8D is rated at 170 amps, and weighs 132
pounds. The equates to less than 1.29 amps per pound.

================================================= ===

Based on your numbers, it does look like the AGMs are delivering about
25% more power per pound. Significantly better, but not exactly a
break through. More telling in my mind is that the Meridian seems to
be about the same as other AGMs which is the appropriate criteria for
judging their claims. Getting a lot more capacity in the same space
as an 8D is certainly an attractive proposition regardless of power to
weight ratios. If they'd like to send me a couple, I'd be happy to
conduct some real world life cycle testing for them. :-)

Me too!!!

I just switched to AGMs this morning - I'm convinced that the safety
factors alone are well worth the dollars spent.

I liked Chuck's idea about the replaceable cells, but in my boats,
that's problematic.

Take care.

Tom

"The beatings will stop when morale improves."
E. Teach, 1717

I don't know how Gould is compensated, but many magazines pay their
freelance writers only for an articles that are published. Since they don't
get published unless the article is extremely positive of the product being
reviewed, it does not take a freelance author to long to know how to write
the article.

If someone wanted to write for any boating magazine, he better wear some
rose colored glasses.





"WaIIy" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:27:14 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

Gould 0738 wrote:
Gould,
I hate to tell you this, but you are the one uniformed. The question is
why
are you so upset if your publisher asked you to write a "fluff" article

My publisher seldom asks me to write anything. I have full editorial
discretion.
That's a concept you probably wouldn't understand, as all you can seem
to write
are snide personal remarks about other people.

Why don't you get back over to the OT political threads where you
belong, and
stop trying to pick fights and start personal arguments in an on-topic
thread?


Chuckster...just toss the little ass in the dumpster and leave him alone
with his simple-minded right-wing butt buddies...

Yes, you and Gould need to throw snotty names around when the facts
befuddle and embarrass you.

Two sock puppets.

This is better than Sesame Street.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I believe that "lighter per amp hour" is accurate.

==========================================

Possibly a dangerous assumption since they are still lead-acid cells.


Some comparisons for you:

Did you do this research, or did you take what they gave you?


The 210-amp Meridian battery weighs 131 pounds. That calculates at 1.60
amps
per pound.

okay....

The West Marine 12-volt flooded cell 8D is rated at 170 amps, and weighs
132
pounds. The equates to less than 1.29 amps per pound.

That would be the Sea Volt "dual purpose" battery. If you are going to
comparison based on amp-hours I would expect that you would compare against
deep cycle batteries.

Without bothering to run a comparsion against every single battery on the
market,
it is possible to establish that these batteries are indeed "lighter per
amp
hour"
(or, more amp hours per pound) than many batteries, including every
variety of
8D Marine battery offered by the nation's largest marine retailer.


Hey, that is great information. The Meridian has more amp-hours per pound
than some batteries.

Why not compare it against batteries that people respect as being performers
in the deep cycle arena?

Trojan Battery: 8D Deep Cycle battery; 216 amp-hours, 132 lbs. 1.64
amp-hours per pound. That exceeds the Meridian!

How about comparing it against the gold standard in deep cycle, the good old
"golf cart" battery. Trojan battery, T-105. They are six volts so you need
two. 2x 62lbs = 124 pounds. 225 amp-hours 1.81 amp-hours / pound.
Doesn't that just blow away a Meridian?

All right, maybe you have a thing about comparing against batteries you can
find in the West Marine catalog. SeaVolt, L16 case size, 113 lbs (they are
six volt so you need two, or 226 lbs). 370 amp-hours, 1.64 amp-hours per
pound.

I sure don't see how you can claim that the Meridian batteries are lighter
per amp-hour.

You might also note that two of the Meridian 210 batteries would NOT fit in
the 8D battery box that you could buy at "the nations largest marine
retailer". The inside dimensions of the 8D battery box that West Marine
sells is 21" long (the Meridian is 22 inches long) and the height is only
10.5 inches tall (the Meridian is 12.6 inches tall).

The Meridian battery does appear to have some interesting features. Their
amp-hour per cubic inch appears to be quite good. They aren't twice what a
flooded 8D would be (as claimed in your article) but they are significantly
better.

Rod

Jon Smithe wrote:
Did I say something to offend you?

You are being purposely offensive after attcking Chuck in political
discussions for a long time. This is a new record in fascist bull****.

DSK

How was I purposely offensive? What I have said was the common response by
most of the people discussing boating mags.

What really has me confused is what did I say that sounded like fascism, in
this thread or any thread.

I am very interested to see when I became a fascist.


"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jon Smithe wrote:
Did I say something to offend you?

You are being purposely offensive after attcking Chuck in political
discussions for a long time. This is a new record in fascist bull****.

DSK

Jon Smithe wrote:
How was I purposely offensive? What I have said was the common response by
most of the people discussing boating mags.

What really has me confused is what did I say that sounded like fascism, in
this thread or any thread.

I am very interested to see when I became a fascist.

"Oh gosh, Oh dear, I certainly didn't mean to offend Mr. Gould when I
said that his article was advertising fluff and probably written by an
agency hired by the company."

After your persistent and irrational attacks on Chuck Gould in political
threads, to now make a personal attack when he is contributing useful
information, as well as good on topic reading, disgusting. That you try
and put on an innocent face afterwards is worse.

Into the sack of shreiking useless Bush-Cheney cheerleaders you go.
Don't worry, you'll like it in there.

DSK

You might also note that two of the Meridian 210 batteries would NOT fit in
the 8D battery box that you could buy at "the nations largest marine
retailer". The inside dimensions of the 8D battery box that West Marine
sells is 21" long (the Meridian is 22 inches long) and the height is only
10.5 inches tall (the Meridian is 12.6 inches tall).

There are two Meridian batteries on display, in a typical 8D box. The vendor
who retails these batteries in this area is not WM, and doesn't sell WM battery
boxes.

Remember that "8D" is a case size.

If your email address works, watch for a couple of photos. The batteries in the
box in the photo are combined to create 24-volts.



Trojan Battery: 8D Deep Cycle battery; 216 amp-hours, 132 lbs. 1.64
amp-hours per pound. That exceeds the Meridian!

By 6 amp-hours, and 1 pound, and takes up twice the space. Under the "twice the
power or half the space" theme of the article, 2 Meridians in the same
footprint would provide 420 amp-hours. That certainly exceeds 216.

How about comparing it against the gold standard in deep cycle, the good old
"golf cart" battery. Trojan battery, T-105. They are six volts so you need
two. 2x 62lbs = 124 pounds. 225 amp-hours 1.81 amp-hours / pound.
Doesn't that just blow away a Meridian?

If you want to digress from 12-volt 8D's to
other types and sizes of batteries, obviously the comparisons will change as
well.

I sure don't see how you can claim that the Meridian batteries are lighter
per amp-hour.

They are lighter per amp hour than some batteries. Not all batteries. They are
lighter per amp hour than every 8D battery shown in the WM catalog, as an
example. The major benefit of the capacity and case size of the Meridians is
the "half the space, or twice the power" option.

"Oh gosh, Oh dear, I certainly didn't mean to offend Mr. Gould when I
said that his article was advertising fluff and probably written by an
agency hired by the company."

I'm beginning to think Dave Mann is no longer MIA, and has been with us all
along.

Smythe tipped his hand in a post yesterday. He'll probably never figure out
just how, and that's even more amusing than the highly revealing statement he
made.