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Interesting batteries
Double the Power, or Half the Space?
We recently dropped by Boat Electric (on Westlake Avenue in Seattle) to visit with Harris Allen, of Meridian Marine Progressive Products. Meridian Marine Progressive Products is the marine distribution and marketing arm of the Northstar Battery Company. Boat Electric has been selling the Meridian Marine batteries, and business is so brisk that employees have resorted hooking the Meridian batteries on display together with zip ties. "We had a lot of people tearing apart the display to get to the batteries," said a Boat Electric spokesperson. "We were having to rebuild the display all the time, and we would really rather sell a battery out of our store room." We wanted to know why these batteries are becoming so popular with NW boaters, and Harris Allen proved to be very informative. Harris shared a general outline of the company history and the specific battery technology employed in the Meridian Marine battery. ***** What can you tell us about the company itself? "Northstar Battery was formed three or three and a half years ago by an international group of battery company executives. Many of them were from Europe. They had an idea that they wanted to build a better battery. They went out and raised $60-million in venture capital, and built the most advanced battery-manufacturing plant in the world in Springfield, Missouri. They built the plant in Missouri because the two largest lead mines in the US are located there." "The founders realized that if they were going to build an improved battery, they would have to go outside the traditional manufacturing processes used by all the other manufacturers. A new approach was required, and they adapted technology from aerospace, automotive, and other industries to get the robotics that they needed to assemble these batteries." With all of the batteries on the market, why would a Northwest boater want to specifically consider yours? "One of the most remarkable things about the Meridian Marine battery is that my unit with amp-hour capacity equivalent with a traditional 8D battery is only about half the size. It is slightly taller, but our battery is only 5-inches wide. We can effectively put two of these in the space of a single 8D. In fact, many people put two new Meridians into the same battery box that previously held only one 8D. I ask prospective customers whether they would prefer to recover half the space currently used by batteries, or enjoy double the power. It's a win-win decision, no matter how a boater decides." "The Meridian Marine battery is a premium product. They cost a lot more to manufacture, and to buy, than some battery purchased off the shelf in an auto parts store. Although the initial cost is higher than an off-the-shelf 8D, the Meridian battery will have a service life that is almost four times as long as the cheaper product." Is it correct to assume that your batteries utilize AGM technology? "Yes, that's correct. You can call it AGM, for 'absorbed glass mat', but it is also referred to as a 'starved electrolyte' battery. Layers of lead plates are separated by layers of glass mat, and the mat is soaked with electrolyte. Once assembled into a bundle, the alternating lead and glass bundles are compressed as part of the manufacturing process. Most manufacturers achieve about a ten- percent compression. Through the use of robotics, Northstar Battery has been able to come up with over a thirty- percent compression. This means that we can get a huge amount of plate area into a smaller space. The critical consideration is the amount of plate area in contact with the electrolyte, so the bundle can be compressed without loss of capacity." "Another advantage of a Meridian Battery is that if you should split the case, the battery isn't going to leak. All the electrolyte is contained in the glass mat." Isn't it true that an AGM battery can be installed in any position, except maybe upside down? "You can't install one upside down. You'll notice on these particular batteries that there's a unique feature. Any sealed battery has valves in it, and falls into a class we call 'valve regulated lead-acid batteries'. If you reach a case pressure of, (in our case at least) 5 psi then the vents open. It takes a serious overcharge to reach a case pressure of 5 psi, but when you do you're venting hydrogen gas. On our particular battery, if the valves should ever open the gas will go into this vent chamber, here on the top of the battery. The vent chamber is an excellent feature, and we go a step beyond that. We have two plastic nipples on the vent chamber so we can install plastic tubing. We can use the tubing to daisy chain the batteries together, and then drain the gasses overboard anywhere we want." "In Fort Lauderdale, we do a lot of Feadships and other big boats. Most of them fall under SOLAS, GMDSS requirements which means they have to have a back-up battery bank for their electronics. Typically, that's under the helm, where all the electronics are. When we have batteries under the electronics, we don't want to run the risk of the battery charger going crazy and venting corrosive gas onto the electronics. In a case like that, we use the remote venting feature and vent the batteries out the side of the boat. Are the vent tube fittings fairly well exclusive to the Meridian Marine product line? "Yes, it's a very unique solution. It allows us to do rack mount installations. Rather than have batteries stuck all around the engine room, we just weld up a stainless rack, install a number of batteries on their sides, and use a single vent for all of them." Do Meridians make good starting batteries? "Yes, because of the compression factor we have a tremendous amount of plate area in the battery and that gives them excellent starting power. Take a look at our 115-amp model for example. Most people would consider that a very compact battery, it's 4 ¼ inches wide, and 15 inches long. We just did a refit on a 150-foot Trinity, with a 53-litre, 1800 HP, 3512 Cat. The starting bank consists of two of these batteries combined to create 24-volts." "Take a look at our 210-amp model. As you can see, it is rated at 1830 cold cranking amps, and most 8D's are rated at about 1200. We have about 50% more cranking power, in a battery that occupies only half the space." What are the sizes most commonly purchased by pleasure boaters? "We just follow the standard marine ratings. We sell a lot of 115-amp, 130-amp, and 210-amp batteries to boaters. By putting two of those 210-amp batteries into a 8D box, all of a sudden you have created a 420-amp battery. Most of the 8D's are 200, 210 or 225 amps, depending upon who built the battery. The term 8D refers to case size. Our 210-amp battery is sort of in the middle, capacity wise, with most of the 8D batteries on the market, but it's only half the size. Putting two of these into the space traditionally occupied by an 8D creates a battery that is about double most 8D units. That's why I ask people whether they would prefer to have twice the power, or only use up half the space." How about deep-cycle durability? "Consider the typical, off-the-shelf flooded cell 8D battery. At 50% discharge, you're looking at 200 to 250 recharge cycles before that battery is done. With a Meridian, you can get over 800 cycles from 50% discharge. The deeper you discharge a battery, the fewer cycles you are going to get. A standard 8D discharged to 80% would be lucky to survive more than about 100 cycles. A Meridian discharged to 80% will last for over 500 recharges." How has the marine market responded to your product so far? "Well, Boat Electric is a good example. They waited a little while and studied the idea before they turned in their first stocking order. Sales in the Pacific Northwest have exploded, with batteries all but flying out the door. Boaters love these. We're now the OEM battery for Hinckley, Palmer Johnson, Direktor Shipyards, Lyman Morse, and nearly all the high-speed, custom sport fish guys. *** While most Pacific Northwest boaters won't be purchasing a Hinckley in the immediate future, it's fun to realize that our boats could rather realistically have a battery in common with such a prestigious craft. Next time the batteries wear out, it might be well to consider a newly relevant question when replacing them, "Do I want to use half the space, or enjoy double the power?" |
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#2
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"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Double the Power, or Half the Space? We recently dropped by Boat Electric (on Westlake Avenue in Seattle) to visit with Harris Allen, of Meridian Marine Progressive Products. Meridian Marine Progressive Products is the marine distribution and marketing arm of the Northstar Battery Company. Boat Electric has been selling the Meridian Marine batteries, and business is so brisk that employees have resorted hooking the Meridian batteries on display together with zip ties. "We had a lot of people tearing apart the display to get to the batteries," said a Boat Electric spokesperson. "We were having to rebuild the display all the time, and we would really rather sell a battery out of our store room." We wanted to know why these batteries are becoming so popular with NW boaters, and Harris Allen proved to be very informative. Harris shared a general outline of the company history and the specific battery technology employed in the Meridian Marine battery. ***** What can you tell us about the company itself? "Northstar Battery was formed three or three and a half years ago by an international group of battery company executives. Many of them were from Europe. They had an idea that they wanted to build a better battery. They went out and raised $60-million in venture capital, and built the most advanced battery-manufacturing plant in the world in Springfield, Missouri. They built the plant in Missouri because the two largest lead mines in the US are located there." "The founders realized that if they were going to build an improved battery, they would have to go outside the traditional manufacturing processes used by all the other manufacturers. A new approach was required, and they adapted technology from aerospace, automotive, and other industries to get the robotics that they needed to assemble these batteries." With all of the batteries on the market, why would a Northwest boater want to specifically consider yours? "One of the most remarkable things about the Meridian Marine battery is that my unit with amp-hour capacity equivalent with a traditional 8D battery is only about half the size. It is slightly taller, but our battery is only 5-inches wide. We can effectively put two of these in the space of a single 8D. In fact, many people put two new Meridians into the same battery box that previously held only one 8D. I ask prospective customers whether they would prefer to recover half the space currently used by batteries, or enjoy double the power. It's a win-win decision, no matter how a boater decides." "The Meridian Marine battery is a premium product. They cost a lot more to manufacture, and to buy, than some battery purchased off the shelf in an auto parts store. Although the initial cost is higher than an off-the-shelf 8D, the Meridian battery will have a service life that is almost four times as long as the cheaper product." Is it correct to assume that your batteries utilize AGM technology? "Yes, that's correct. You can call it AGM, for 'absorbed glass mat', but it is also referred to as a 'starved electrolyte' battery. Layers of lead plates are separated by layers of glass mat, and the mat is soaked with electrolyte. Once assembled into a bundle, the alternating lead and glass bundles are compressed as part of the manufacturing process. Most manufacturers achieve about a ten- percent compression. Through the use of robotics, Northstar Battery has been able to come up with over a thirty- percent compression. This means that we can get a huge amount of plate area into a smaller space. The critical consideration is the amount of plate area in contact with the electrolyte, so the bundle can be compressed without loss of capacity." "Another advantage of a Meridian Battery is that if you should split the case, the battery isn't going to leak. All the electrolyte is contained in the glass mat." Isn't it true that an AGM battery can be installed in any position, except maybe upside down? "You can't install one upside down. You'll notice on these particular batteries that there's a unique feature. Any sealed battery has valves in it, and falls into a class we call 'valve regulated lead-acid batteries'. If you reach a case pressure of, (in our case at least) 5 psi then the vents open. It takes a serious overcharge to reach a case pressure of 5 psi, but when you do you're venting hydrogen gas. On our particular battery, if the valves should ever open the gas will go into this vent chamber, here on the top of the battery. The vent chamber is an excellent feature, and we go a step beyond that. We have two plastic nipples on the vent chamber so we can install plastic tubing. We can use the tubing to daisy chain the batteries together, and then drain the gasses overboard anywhere we want." "In Fort Lauderdale, we do a lot of Feadships and other big boats. Most of them fall under SOLAS, GMDSS requirements which means they have to have a back-up battery bank for their electronics. Typically, that's under the helm, where all the electronics are. When we have batteries under the electronics, we don't want to run the risk of the battery charger going crazy and venting corrosive gas onto the electronics. In a case like that, we use the remote venting feature and vent the batteries out the side of the boat. Are the vent tube fittings fairly well exclusive to the Meridian Marine product line? "Yes, it's a very unique solution. It allows us to do rack mount installations. Rather than have batteries stuck all around the engine room, we just weld up a stainless rack, install a number of batteries on their sides, and use a single vent for all of them." Do Meridians make good starting batteries? "Yes, because of the compression factor we have a tremendous amount of plate area in the battery and that gives them excellent starting power. Take a look at our 115-amp model for example. Most people would consider that a very compact battery, it's 4 ¼ inches wide, and 15 inches long. We just did a refit on a 150-foot Trinity, with a 53-litre, 1800 HP, 3512 Cat. The starting bank consists of two of these batteries combined to create 24-volts." "Take a look at our 210-amp model. As you can see, it is rated at 1830 cold cranking amps, and most 8D's are rated at about 1200. We have about 50% more cranking power, in a battery that occupies only half the space." What are the sizes most commonly purchased by pleasure boaters? "We just follow the standard marine ratings. We sell a lot of 115-amp, 130-amp, and 210-amp batteries to boaters. By putting two of those 210-amp batteries into a 8D box, all of a sudden you have created a 420-amp battery. Most of the 8D's are 200, 210 or 225 amps, depending upon who built the battery. The term 8D refers to case size. Our 210-amp battery is sort of in the middle, capacity wise, with most of the 8D batteries on the market, but it's only half the size. Putting two of these into the space traditionally occupied by an 8D creates a battery that is about double most 8D units. That's why I ask people whether they would prefer to have twice the power, or only use up half the space." How about deep-cycle durability? "Consider the typical, off-the-shelf flooded cell 8D battery. At 50% discharge, you're looking at 200 to 250 recharge cycles before that battery is done. With a Meridian, you can get over 800 cycles from 50% discharge. The deeper you discharge a battery, the fewer cycles you are going to get. A standard 8D discharged to 80% would be lucky to survive more than about 100 cycles. A Meridian discharged to 80% will last for over 500 recharges." How has the marine market responded to your product so far? "Well, Boat Electric is a good example. They waited a little while and studied the idea before they turned in their first stocking order. Sales in the Pacific Northwest have exploded, with batteries all but flying out the door. Boaters love these. We're now the OEM battery for Hinckley, Palmer Johnson, Direktor Shipyards, Lyman Morse, and nearly all the high-speed, custom sport fish guys. *** While most Pacific Northwest boaters won't be purchasing a Hinckley in the immediate future, it's fun to realize that our boats could rather realistically have a battery in common with such a prestigious craft. Next time the batteries wear out, it might be well to consider a newly relevant question when replacing them, "Do I want to use half the space, or enjoy double the power?" Nice post Chuck. How much are they retailing for? Having to deal with four lead plate group 31 batteries in my old boat was quite a chore and required maintenance every other week. |
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#3
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Thanks for writing & posting this, Chuck. Very interesting reading. I am
a fan of old fashioned flooded cell batteries, but these are worth looking into. Fair Skies Doug King Gould 0738 wrote: Double the Power, or Half the Space? We recently dropped by Boat Electric (on Westlake Avenue in Seattle) to visit with Harris Allen, of Meridian Marine Progressive Products. Meridian Marine Progressive Products is the marine distribution and marketing arm of the Northstar Battery Company. Boat Electric has been selling the Meridian Marine batteries, and business is so brisk that employees have resorted hooking the Meridian batteries on display together with zip ties. "We had a lot of people tearing apart the display to get to the batteries," said a Boat Electric spokesperson. "We were having to rebuild the display all the time, and we would really rather sell a battery out of our store room." We wanted to know why these batteries are becoming so popular with NW boaters, and Harris Allen proved to be very informative. Harris shared a general outline of the company history and the specific battery technology employed in the Meridian Marine battery. ***** What can you tell us about the company itself? "Northstar Battery was formed three or three and a half years ago by an international group of battery company executives. Many of them were from Europe. They had an idea that they wanted to build a better battery. They went out and raised $60-million in venture capital, and built the most advanced battery-manufacturing plant in the world in Springfield, Missouri. They built the plant in Missouri because the two largest lead mines in the US are located there." "The founders realized that if they were going to build an improved battery, they would have to go outside the traditional manufacturing processes used by all the other manufacturers. A new approach was required, and they adapted technology from aerospace, automotive, and other industries to get the robotics that they needed to assemble these batteries." With all of the batteries on the market, why would a Northwest boater want to specifically consider yours? "One of the most remarkable things about the Meridian Marine battery is that my unit with amp-hour capacity equivalent with a traditional 8D battery is only about half the size. It is slightly taller, but our battery is only 5-inches wide. We can effectively put two of these in the space of a single 8D. In fact, many people put two new Meridians into the same battery box that previously held only one 8D. I ask prospective customers whether they would prefer to recover half the space currently used by batteries, or enjoy double the power. It's a win-win decision, no matter how a boater decides." "The Meridian Marine battery is a premium product. They cost a lot more to manufacture, and to buy, than some battery purchased off the shelf in an auto parts store. Although the initial cost is higher than an off-the-shelf 8D, the Meridian battery will have a service life that is almost four times as long as the cheaper product." Is it correct to assume that your batteries utilize AGM technology? "Yes, that's correct. You can call it AGM, for 'absorbed glass mat', but it is also referred to as a 'starved electrolyte' battery. Layers of lead plates are separated by layers of glass mat, and the mat is soaked with electrolyte. Once assembled into a bundle, the alternating lead and glass bundles are compressed as part of the manufacturing process. Most manufacturers achieve about a ten- percent compression. Through the use of robotics, Northstar Battery has been able to come up with over a thirty- percent compression. This means that we can get a huge amount of plate area into a smaller space. The critical consideration is the amount of plate area in contact with the electrolyte, so the bundle can be compressed without loss of capacity." "Another advantage of a Meridian Battery is that if you should split the case, the battery isn't going to leak. All the electrolyte is contained in the glass mat." Isn't it true that an AGM battery can be installed in any position, except maybe upside down? "You can't install one upside down. You'll notice on these particular batteries that there's a unique feature. Any sealed battery has valves in it, and falls into a class we call 'valve regulated lead-acid batteries'. If you reach a case pressure of, (in our case at least) 5 psi then the vents open. It takes a serious overcharge to reach a case pressure of 5 psi, but when you do you're venting hydrogen gas. On our particular battery, if the valves should ever open the gas will go into this vent chamber, here on the top of the battery. The vent chamber is an excellent feature, and we go a step beyond that. We have two plastic nipples on the vent chamber so we can install plastic tubing. We can use the tubing to daisy chain the batteries together, and then drain the gasses overboard anywhere we want." "In Fort Lauderdale, we do a lot of Feadships and other big boats. Most of them fall under SOLAS, GMDSS requirements which means they have to have a back-up battery bank for their electronics. Typically, that's under the helm, where all the electronics are. When we have batteries under the electronics, we don't want to run the risk of the battery charger going crazy and venting corrosive gas onto the electronics. In a case like that, we use the remote venting feature and vent the batteries out the side of the boat. Are the vent tube fittings fairly well exclusive to the Meridian Marine product line? "Yes, it's a very unique solution. It allows us to do rack mount installations. Rather than have batteries stuck all around the engine room, we just weld up a stainless rack, install a number of batteries on their sides, and use a single vent for all of them." Do Meridians make good starting batteries? "Yes, because of the compression factor we have a tremendous amount of plate area in the battery and that gives them excellent starting power. Take a look at our 115-amp model for example. Most people would consider that a very compact battery, it's 4 ¼ inches wide, and 15 inches long. We just did a refit on a 150-foot Trinity, with a 53-litre, 1800 HP, 3512 Cat. The starting bank consists of two of these batteries combined to create 24-volts." "Take a look at our 210-amp model. As you can see, it is rated at 1830 cold cranking amps, and most 8D's are rated at about 1200. We have about 50% more cranking power, in a battery that occupies only half the space." What are the sizes most commonly purchased by pleasure boaters? "We just follow the standard marine ratings. We sell a lot of 115-amp, 130-amp, and 210-amp batteries to boaters. By putting two of those 210-amp batteries into a 8D box, all of a sudden you have created a 420-amp battery. Most of the 8D's are 200, 210 or 225 amps, depending upon who built the battery. The term 8D refers to case size. Our 210-amp battery is sort of in the middle, capacity wise, with most of the 8D batteries on the market, but it's only half the size. Putting two of these into the space traditionally occupied by an 8D creates a battery that is about double most 8D units. That's why I ask people whether they would prefer to have twice the power, or only use up half the space." How about deep-cycle durability? "Consider the typical, off-the-shelf flooded cell 8D battery. At 50% discharge, you're looking at 200 to 250 recharge cycles before that battery is done. With a Meridian, you can get over 800 cycles from 50% discharge. The deeper you discharge a battery, the fewer cycles you are going to get. A standard 8D discharged to 80% would be lucky to survive more than about 100 cycles. A Meridian discharged to 80% will last for over 500 recharges." How has the marine market responded to your product so far? "Well, Boat Electric is a good example. They waited a little while and studied the idea before they turned in their first stocking order. Sales in the Pacific Northwest have exploded, with batteries all but flying out the door. Boaters love these. We're now the OEM battery for Hinckley, Palmer Johnson, Direktor Shipyards, Lyman Morse, and nearly all the high-speed, custom sport fish guys. *** While most Pacific Northwest boaters won't be purchasing a Hinckley in the immediate future, it's fun to realize that our boats could rather realistically have a battery in common with such a prestigious craft. Next time the batteries wear out, it might be well to consider a newly relevant question when replacing them, "Do I want to use half the space, or enjoy double the power?" |
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#4
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JimH wrote:
Nice post Chuck. How much are they retailing for? Having to deal with four lead plate group 31 batteries in my old boat was quite a chore and required maintenance every other week. Why? We have 4 Excide Gr-31 dual purpose batteries. I hooked them to a smart charger and they do quite well. Occasionally (like twice in 7 months) add distilled water. However I check them regularly... not a big deal. DSK |
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#5
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Nice post Chuck. How much are they retailing for?
I'm under the impression that retail is maybe twice to two and a half times the price of a flooded cell battery, but I don't have any hard numbers. |
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#6
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Thanks for writing & posting this, Chuck.
Some scarce boating content for the NG, a screw-up detector for me. My "executive editor" has a degree in English, but she doesn't know anything about boats. Running something through here is useful. If ten guys say, "Hey! What about this?" I can figure out whether it needs to be incorporated into or removed from the text. Very interesting reading. I am a fan of old fashioned flooded cell batteries, but these are worth looking into. I am also a flooded cell fan. I would certainly consider batteries like these if I needed to get the maximum amount of power into a minimal amount of space. |
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#7
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"Gould 0738" wrote in message ... Double the Power, or Half the Space? Can I assume, being into racing, these batteries are lighter per amp/hr than conventional automotive batteries? Dixon |
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#8
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#9
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Chuck, was that an advertisement? I read a lot of nice words, but didn't see
any test results or other statistics to support the claims. It was an interview, in which the subject responded to a request to talk about his company and his product. There's always a chance that the amp/hour ratings and CCA ratings printed on the battery cases are blatant lies, but I doubt it. You can get two of these into an existing 8D box, which is what the entire theme of the article (half the space or twice the power) is about. |
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#10
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It's a PR piece for a new product. "Articles" like this is very common in
all boating magazines. Normally they agree to run so many ads if the magazine agrees to run the piece. You don't know a goddam thing about boats, and don't even begin to insinuate you know anything about boating magazines. Pick up any issue of any boating magazine, and if it is reasonably successful you can go through the magazine and say, "Oh, look! Here's an ad for that company or brand of boat that was featured in an article this month. Must be something fu'd going on here." Of course the fact that the same company or product may have advertised regularly for years means nothing.... Now count the dozens, scores, or in some of the largest publications the *hundreds* of ads for companies that do not have articles appearing in the issue. Any explanation for those? Add the publishing business to the list of things you need to learn more about. |
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