I fail to see (with through prop exhaust and the propshaft seal WAY back in
there) how fishing line is such a concern. Other areas are the drive shaft,
shift shaft and porosity of the case, gaskets, etc. Also, a slight bend in
either drive of prop shaft might not show up under a pressure test but can
leak under a load at normal rpms.
LD

"Joseph Stachyra" wrote in message
...
it's amazing what fishing line can do !!!!
don't blame the engine, or dealer.....
next time check your prop, for fishing line which gets in the seals,
thus
the water..... not rocket science here.

"habbi" wrote in message
...
I have a 2001 250 Johnson XXL which was new in May 2003. I just took it
out
and drained the gearcase. It was full of water, not milky oil, I mean
pure
water, the end had about a tablespoon of milky oil. I am 100 % sure it
was
full of new clean oil when I put it in the water back in May. There are
200
hours on the engine. I know I should have checked/changed it sooner but
it
is a 31' work boat and hard to remove from water. I pressure checked it
and
no leaks but I have not vacuum tested it as I do not have the pump and
gauge. Anyway dealer is going to cover it under warrantee. Should the
warrantee cover a complete rebuild as the internals are probably
corroded?
Or will they just change the seals?


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FISHING LINE, has been the cause of water, getting in behind the prop, for
many years. If the boat is in salt water, worse yet.... the seals get
destroyed by the fishing line binding in due to the rotation of the prop,
the water gets behind the seal, thus water will raise, to its level, thus
the gear case gets contaminated with water mixing with the gear oil, any
easy check, if the boat is small enough to be on a trailer, the owner
should notice a leakage of oil coming from the seal dripping on the ground,
thus you lose your gear oil, the salt water, will then takes it place,
doing a lot of nasty stuff, like eating at your lower bearings, that are on
the shaft to the prop. it can also get costly to change all that stuff.
Next time at a good dealership, ask about seal damage, from fishing line.
The man stated earlier, in his posts, that this boat was not checked, like
it should because it's too damn big. If he can afford a 31 footer, this
is no big problem.

"LD" wrote in message
nk.net...
I fail to see (with through prop exhaust and the propshaft seal WAY back
in
there) how fishing line is such a concern. Other areas are the drive
shaft,
shift shaft and porosity of the case, gaskets, etc. Also, a slight bend
in
either drive of prop shaft might not show up under a pressure test but can
leak under a load at normal rpms.
LD

"Joseph Stachyra" wrote in message
...
it's amazing what fishing line can do !!!!
don't blame the engine, or dealer.....
next time check your prop, for fishing line which gets in the seals,
thus
the water..... not rocket science here.

"habbi" wrote in message
...
I have a 2001 250 Johnson XXL which was new in May 2003. I just took
it
out
and drained the gearcase. It was full of water, not milky oil, I mean
pure
water, the end had about a tablespoon of milky oil. I am 100 % sure it
was
full of new clean oil when I put it in the water back in May. There
are
200
hours on the engine. I know I should have checked/changed it sooner
but
it
is a 31' work boat and hard to remove from water. I pressure checked
it
and
no leaks but I have not vacuum tested it as I do not have the pump and
gauge. Anyway dealer is going to cover it under warrantee. Should the
warrantee cover a complete rebuild as the internals are probably
corroded?
Or will they just change the seals?


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"habbi" wrote in message
...
. I have 2
motors with these props and they always seem to get loose.


Are you torquing the prop nut to the recommended 70-80 ft.-lbs.?

Bill Grannis
service manager

Joseph, I'm well aware of what can happen once water gets in the gear case,
perhaps more than you, since I've had it happen many, many times over the
last 25 years. In my little duck boat (w/a 25 Johnson) I've hit things and
cracked the case. I've hit things and shattered props. I've hit things and
bent the prop shaft. I've sucked in enough mud to not only wear out the
impeller, but also the ss housing and groove the drive shaft. Once I've
gotten water in, I've had it freeze and put more cracks in the case.
(Did'ja ever have to put a heater under the foot so you could melt the ice,
so you could turn over the prop??) In addition, I've wrapped so many weeds,
ropes, decoy lines (I use 100# mono on mine.), I have nicks in the housing
where I've cut these things off. The back side of the housing (junction to
the prop) is actually tapered and polished from wear of lines, weeds, etc.
BUT---I've NEVER found line that made it all the way to the prop shaft to
put pressure on the seal. Have you? Or, are you just repeating what you've
heard?
Incidentally, I also have a 200hp merc on an old V20 Steplift (only for
about a year). I've picked up line around the prop twice but none made it to
the shaft. So, I stick by my earlier statement, based upon my knowledge of
the design of these two engines (but I won't say it CAN'T happen, just that
there are many other possibilities). Maybe habbi's engine is different and
will easily allow line to wrap around the prop shaft and mash against the
seal which somehow opens it??
I will say that a "good" mechanic with analytical thinking abilities and
diagnostic abilities is extremely rare. I'm guessing there's maybe one for
every thousand parts replacers. BTW, it's NOT always evident that you've
got a leak just because you raised the engine , and as you said, "the owner
should notice a leakage of oil coming from the seal dripping on the ground".
There's a lot of other forces at work when you're rotating a 10# prop down
there at 2000 times a minute.

Bottom line--"habbi's" mechanic should NOT assume the lube and water
transferred through the prop shaft seal, replace that and send him on his
way. The mechanic should KNOW the cause. With a pressure and/or vacumn
check with or without prop/driveshaft rotation and shift shaft rotation the
problem should be located
LD

I have seen it - ONCE.

But the main reason for checking and removing any stray line is so they
can't "blame" it to void warranty work.

-W

"LD" wrote in message
nk.net...

BUT---I've NEVER found line that made it all the way to the prop shaft to
put pressure on the seal. Have you? Or, are you just repeating what
you've
heard?
Incidentally, I also have a 200hp merc on an old V20 Steplift (only for
about a year). I've picked up line around the prop twice but none made it
to
the shaft. So, I stick by my earlier statement, based upon my knowledge
of
the design of these two engines (but I won't say it CAN'T happen, just
that
there are many other possibilities). Maybe habbi's engine is different
and
will easily allow line to wrap around the prop shaft and mash against the
seal which somehow opens it??
I will say that a "good" mechanic with analytical thinking abilities and
diagnostic abilities is extremely rare. I'm guessing there's maybe one
for
every thousand parts replacers. BTW, it's NOT always evident that you've
got a leak just because you raised the engine , and as you said, "the
owner
should notice a leakage of oil coming from the seal dripping on the
ground".
There's a lot of other forces at work when you're rotating a 10# prop down
there at 2000 times a minute.

Bottom line--"habbi's" mechanic should NOT assume the lube and water
transferred through the prop shaft seal, replace that and send him on his
way. The mechanic should KNOW the cause. With a pressure and/or vacumn
check with or without prop/driveshaft rotation and shift shaft rotation
the
problem should be located
LD

I'd be real interested in the outcome, what caused the leak, what the fix
was, etc.
LD

"habbi" wrote in message
...

The dealer phoned me today and said they did a pressure test and vacuum test
and no leak at all, the drive and prop shaft are perfectly true, they
checked the 2 seals on the drain/fill plugs and both looked fine. And like I
said I am 100% sure both were very tight when I removed them. They said the
only way warrantee would replace internals was if a seal was leaking. The
prop was beat up and a bit loose not only fore and aft but side to side as
well so Bill like you said the prop vibration must have been enough to let
water in the prop shaft seal. Anyway I guess all I can do is keep using it
and keep a constant check on the oil level (which I should have been doing)
and hope the internals were not too corroded, pitted etc..
"LD" wrote in message
link.net...
I'd be real interested in the outcome, what caused the leak, what the fix
was, etc.
LD

"habbi" wrote in message
...




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Habbi said: snipAnyway I guess all I can do is keep using it
and keep a constant check on the oil level (which I should have been doing)
and hope the internals were not too corroded, pitted etc..

Habbi,

Wrong answer. You have options. Your best course of action, IMO, is to have
the gearcase inspected and any needed repairs done. If you continue to operate
the engine as is you are taking a big risk of untimely total failure. The cost
of a new gearcase may not only be much higher than a repair now, but the
inconvenience and danger of a failure at sea may be unacceptable.

My experience indicates that breakdowns only occur at the worst possible times
in the worst possible conditions. Of course, YMMD.

God luck, you sure will need it.

Butch

I'll bet they didn't put a dial indicator on the shaft to ck if it was bent
or loose. A couple thousandths bend will open up the seal when running.
I've seen a guy put a pressure on for maybe 30 min., let it sit on the
bench, come back and say it's tight, "ready to go".
In your case ------------
1. It was never filled, or,
2. You or someone else removed the lube and replaced it with salt water,
or,
3. It LEAKED!
Which of these 3 choices do you think is the most likely. Ask the dealer
Where did the lube escape from and where did the water enter. Most likely
from a slightly bent prop shaft, I'd say. But it could be a mfg defect, (an
imperfection in a seal surface, or fit of a seal into a bore, or porosity in
the foot or,???). If the dealer knows his stuff he will know, or at least
has the skill to find out Where the Leak is so he can FIX IT. You WILL do
damage (to the tune of approximately $2000), if you don't get this fixed.
Also, I fully agree with "Butch" in his response to you except the "YMMD"
(What does that mean? :-)

Please keep us posted.
LD

"habbi" wrote in message
...
The dealer phoned me today and said they did a pressure test and vacuum
test
and no leak at all, the drive and prop shaft are perfectly true, they
checked the 2 seals on the drain/fill plugs and both looked fine. And like
I
said I am 100% sure both were very tight when I removed them. They said
the
only way warrantee would replace internals was if a seal was leaking. The
prop was beat up and a bit loose not only fore and aft but side to side as
well so Bill like you said the prop vibration must have been enough to let
water in the prop shaft seal. Anyway I guess all I can do is keep using it
and keep a constant check on the oil level (which I should have been
doing)
and hope the internals were not too corroded, pitted etc..
"LD" wrote in message
link.net...
I'd be real interested in the outcome, what caused the leak, what the
fix
was, etc.
LD

"habbi" wrote in message
...




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YMMD = Your mileage may differ.

Butch