Excuse me while a vent a bit here...

Last June, I bought a brand-new 2005-model Merc 4-stroke 9.9. This is the
"ultralight" model: around 80lb. Turns out it's a rebadged Tohashu,
apparently.

This was the first brand-new outboard I've ever owned. Until now, I've
been running 20-30 yr old clunker 2-strokes.

First, it doesn't start as easily as I would expect. After going through
the rather complex Starting Procedure (including pushing the button on the
side and bringing the throttle above idle in neutral: recommended by the
Dealer but NOT IN THE MANUAL), it will start after 3-4 pulls. I've had
30-yr-old clunkers that start better than that!

Second, it doesn't idle at all when cold, and once warm, it vibrates so
much in gear that I cannot use it for trolling. Again, my 30-yr-old
Johnson Seahorse idled way smoother.

Third, there's a big "lag" as I go up the throttle. It ALMOST stalls, and
it's very disconcerting. I know the problem - it's right where it's
changing from the idle cct to the power cct in the carb.

Finally, I just got a notice for a recall concerning the reverse hooks and
the throttle/shift function.

I've had the motor into the Dealer three times to try to correct the first
three problems: Their solution was: 1. Showing me how to start it
(including the "throttle=up" not described in the manual), 2. increasing
the idle speed until going into gear gives a loud THUMP, and 3. telling me
"that's normal for that engine".

I'm taking it to another Dealer next week to deal with the recall - I
prefer to have the Dealer I bought it from deal with any warranty issues,
but those guys are CRAP!

Other than that, I DO like the engine. It's quiet, NO SMOKE, lots of
power, and basically the same weight as a 2-stroke. I'm slowly getting
confidence in it's reliability, but that lag keeps scaring me...

Lloyd Sumpter
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
Excuse me while a vent a bit here...

Last June, I bought a brand-new 2005-model Merc 4-stroke 9.9. This is the
"ultralight" model: around 80lb. Turns out it's a rebadged Tohashu,
apparently.

This was the first brand-new outboard I've ever owned. Until now, I've
been running 20-30 yr old clunker 2-strokes.

First, it doesn't start as easily as I would expect. After going through
the rather complex Starting Procedure (including pushing the button on the
side and bringing the throttle above idle in neutral: recommended by the
Dealer but NOT IN THE MANUAL), it will start after 3-4 pulls. I've had
30-yr-old clunkers that start better than that!


No offense, Lloyd, but I wouldn't buy any new outboard engine without
first test-running a demo. And I wouldn't settle for the answers you are
getting from the dealer. Return it for a refund.


--
A passing thought:

So what if it rains or freezes?

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 09:19:08 -0800, Lloyd Sumpter
wrote:

Excuse me while a vent a bit here...

Last June, I bought a brand-new 2005-model Merc 4-stroke 9.9. This is the
"ultralight" model: around 80lb. Turns out it's a rebadged Tohashu,
apparently.

This was the first brand-new outboard I've ever owned. Until now, I've
been running 20-30 yr old clunker 2-strokes.

First, it doesn't start as easily as I would expect. After going through
the rather complex Starting Procedure (including pushing the button on the
side and bringing the throttle above idle in neutral: recommended by the
Dealer but NOT IN THE MANUAL), it will start after 3-4 pulls. I've had
30-yr-old clunkers that start better than that!

Second, it doesn't idle at all when cold, and once warm, it vibrates so
much in gear that I cannot use it for trolling. Again, my 30-yr-old
Johnson Seahorse idled way smoother.

Third, there's a big "lag" as I go up the throttle. It ALMOST stalls, and
it's very disconcerting. I know the problem - it's right where it's
changing from the idle cct to the power cct in the carb.

Finally, I just got a notice for a recall concerning the reverse hooks and
the throttle/shift function.

I've had the motor into the Dealer three times to try to correct the first
three problems: Their solution was: 1. Showing me how to start it
(including the "throttle=up" not described in the manual), 2. increasing
the idle speed until going into gear gives a loud THUMP, and 3. telling me
"that's normal for that engine".

I'm taking it to another Dealer next week to deal with the recall - I
prefer to have the Dealer I bought it from deal with any warranty issues,
but those guys are CRAP!

Other than that, I DO like the engine. It's quiet, NO SMOKE, lots of
power, and basically the same weight as a 2-stroke. I'm slowly getting
confidence in it's reliability, but that lag keeps scaring me...

Lloyd Sumpter
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12

Lloyd, interesting story. I didn't know that Merc was using a repackaged
Tohatsu.

For what it is worth, the Tohatsu outboard receives pretty high ratings.

http://www.tohatsu.com/news.html

Best of luck with it!



Regards
John S

I would rather be boating!

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:20:49 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
Excuse me while a vent a bit here...

Last June, I bought a brand-new 2005-model Merc 4-stroke 9.9. This is the
"ultralight" model: around 80lb. Turns out it's a rebadged Tohashu,
apparently.

This was the first brand-new outboard I've ever owned. Until now, I've
been running 20-30 yr old clunker 2-strokes.

First, it doesn't start as easily as I would expect. After going through
the rather complex Starting Procedure (including pushing the button on the
side and bringing the throttle above idle in neutral: recommended by the
Dealer but NOT IN THE MANUAL), it will start after 3-4 pulls. I've had
30-yr-old clunkers that start better than that!


No offense, Lloyd, but I wouldn't buy any new outboard engine without
first test-running a demo. And I wouldn't settle for the answers you are
getting from the dealer. Return it for a refund.

I did have them run it for me in a tank, but it's not the same thing. This
is a $2500 9.9, not a $50,000 200, so I doubt they'd let me put it on my
boat and run it around for awhile before I bought it.

I don't really WANT a refund - I want them to fix THIS engine: Sounds to
me like all it needs is some idle adjustments.

Which brings me to one reason for posting this: Is there anyone out there
in rec.boat-land that has a new-ish 9.9 4-stroke that can tell me if this
is "normal"? Does it start first pull, or after 3 or 4? Does it start on
idle? Does it idle when cold? Is there vibration when in gear at idle? And
is there a "lag" as you throttle up?

Lloyd Sumpter
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:20:49 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
Excuse me while a vent a bit here...

Last June, I bought a brand-new 2005-model Merc 4-stroke 9.9. This is the
"ultralight" model: around 80lb. Turns out it's a rebadged Tohashu,
apparently.

This was the first brand-new outboard I've ever owned. Until now, I've
been running 20-30 yr old clunker 2-strokes.

First, it doesn't start as easily as I would expect. After going through
the rather complex Starting Procedure (including pushing the button on the
side and bringing the throttle above idle in neutral: recommended by the
Dealer but NOT IN THE MANUAL), it will start after 3-4 pulls. I've had
30-yr-old clunkers that start better than that!


No offense, Lloyd, but I wouldn't buy any new outboard engine without
first test-running a demo. And I wouldn't settle for the answers you are
getting from the dealer. Return it for a refund.

I did have them run it for me in a tank, but it's not the same thing. This
is a $2500 9.9, not a $50,000 200, so I doubt they'd let me put it on my
boat and run it around for awhile before I bought it.

I don't really WANT a refund - I want them to fix THIS engine: Sounds to
me like all it needs is some idle adjustments.

Which brings me to one reason for posting this: Is there anyone out there
in rec.boat-land that has a new-ish 9.9 4-stroke that can tell me if this
is "normal"? Does it start first pull, or after 3 or 4? Does it start on
idle? Does it idle when cold? Is there vibration when in gear at idle? And
is there a "lag" as you throttle up?

Lloyd Sumpter
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12


Well, then, find yourself a competent dealer.

--
A passing thought:

No one is listening until you make a mistake.
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/

Mercury does use Tohatsu engines on their smaller 4 strokes. The engine is
Tohatsu but everything else is Merc (lower unit, electronics, etc..).

As for starting - I assume you are pumping the primer to get fuel into the
engine, adjusting the choke properly and then cranking. Any carb engine
will usually require a little throttle over idle to crank when cold. Did
you not do that on any of your older engines. Should be the same process.

As for the idle when cold - again, adjust the choke. It is a manual choke.

As for the vibration - I have never known a 2 cylinder engine to idle
smooth. Nature of the beast.

The lag should not be there as you increase throttle. May be a service
bullitin out that describes a rejet of the carb to solve this problem. As
about a possible rejet to solve it and any service bullitins on this engine.

You should NEVER increase rpms/throttle when engaging in gear. That will
tear up the lower unit clutch/gears. If you can't put in gear when at idle
w/ the choke set right then there is another problem. Either it is idled
too low or something. Idle is set in gear in the water on your boat at 600
to 800 rpms.
--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com



"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
news
Excuse me while a vent a bit here...

Last June, I bought a brand-new 2005-model Merc 4-stroke 9.9. This is the
"ultralight" model: around 80lb. Turns out it's a rebadged Tohashu,
apparently.

This was the first brand-new outboard I've ever owned. Until now, I've
been running 20-30 yr old clunker 2-strokes.

First, it doesn't start as easily as I would expect. After going through
the rather complex Starting Procedure (including pushing the button on the
side and bringing the throttle above idle in neutral: recommended by the
Dealer but NOT IN THE MANUAL), it will start after 3-4 pulls. I've had
30-yr-old clunkers that start better than that!

Second, it doesn't idle at all when cold, and once warm, it vibrates so
much in gear that I cannot use it for trolling. Again, my 30-yr-old
Johnson Seahorse idled way smoother.

Third, there's a big "lag" as I go up the throttle. It ALMOST stalls, and
it's very disconcerting. I know the problem - it's right where it's
changing from the idle cct to the power cct in the carb.

Finally, I just got a notice for a recall concerning the reverse hooks and
the throttle/shift function.

I've had the motor into the Dealer three times to try to correct the first
three problems: Their solution was: 1. Showing me how to start it
(including the "throttle=up" not described in the manual), 2. increasing
the idle speed until going into gear gives a loud THUMP, and 3. telling me
"that's normal for that engine".

I'm taking it to another Dealer next week to deal with the recall - I
prefer to have the Dealer I bought it from deal with any warranty issues,
but those guys are CRAP!

Other than that, I DO like the engine. It's quiet, NO SMOKE, lots of
power, and basically the same weight as a 2-stroke. I'm slowly getting
confidence in it's reliability, but that lag keeps scaring me...

Lloyd Sumpter
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:51:21 +0000, tony thomas wrote:

Mercury does use Tohatsu engines on their smaller 4 strokes. The engine is
Tohatsu but everything else is Merc (lower unit, electronics, etc..).

As for starting - I assume you are pumping the primer to get fuel into the
engine, adjusting the choke properly and then cranking. Any carb engine
will usually require a little throttle over idle to crank when cold. Did
you not do that on any of your older engines. Should be the same process.


My complaint is: A NEW engine should start more easily than a 30-yr-old
one, right? New cars (even carburated ones!) start on idle, pretty much
immediately. I'd expect the same from a NEW outboard.

As for the idle when cold - again, adjust the choke. It is a manual choke.


This is something I suspect: the choke may not be hooked up (or adjusted
properly?) With other engines, I could usually STOP the engine by pulling
out the choke when it's warm. But in this one: no change whatsoever.

As for the vibration - I have never known a 2 cylinder engine to idle
smooth. Nature of the beast.


My old Seahorse was virtually vibration-free.

The lag should not be there as you increase throttle. May be a service
bullitin out that describes a rejet of the carb to solve this problem. As
about a possible rejet to solve it and any service bullitins on this engine.


That's what I'm thinking - or it wasn't adjusted right at the factory.

You should NEVER increase rpms/throttle when engaging in gear. That
will tear up the lower unit clutch/gears. If you can't put in gear when
at idle w/ the choke set right then there is another problem. Either it
is idled too low or something. Idle is set in gear in the water on your
boat at 600 to 800 rpms.

I requested several times that they come out with me so I could show them
the problems. They refused, saying running in a tank is sufficient.

I'm tempted to take my hand tach to the engine and find out where they've
set the idle - I suspect it's closer to 1200.

As I said, I'm taking it to a different dealer. Hope they're better (I've
dealt with them befo I have a few issues with them, but they seem more
competent and customer-oriented than the other shop)

Lloyd Sumpter
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12

A new engine may or may not start easier than a 30 year old one. If the old
engine is setup properly w/ clean, correctly adjusted carbs then there
should be no difference.
As for cars, w/ a carb you always had to pump it a few times to get fuel
from the accelerator pump into the carb and set the choke. On some cars I
always had to give a little throttle also. Others I did not. I have always
given throttle to a boat engine when cranking cold. Be it an outboard or
I/O unless it is fuel injected.

Bottom line - sounds like your choke is not working which is the cause of a
lot of problems to include having them adjust the idle too high.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:51:21 +0000, tony thomas wrote:

Mercury does use Tohatsu engines on their smaller 4 strokes. The engine
is
Tohatsu but everything else is Merc (lower unit, electronics, etc..).

As for starting - I assume you are pumping the primer to get fuel into
the
engine, adjusting the choke properly and then cranking. Any carb engine
will usually require a little throttle over idle to crank when cold. Did
you not do that on any of your older engines. Should be the same
process.


My complaint is: A NEW engine should start more easily than a 30-yr-old
one, right? New cars (even carburated ones!) start on idle, pretty much
immediately. I'd expect the same from a NEW outboard.

As for the idle when cold - again, adjust the choke. It is a manual
choke.


This is something I suspect: the choke may not be hooked up (or adjusted
properly?) With other engines, I could usually STOP the engine by pulling
out the choke when it's warm. But in this one: no change whatsoever.

As for the vibration - I have never known a 2 cylinder engine to idle
smooth. Nature of the beast.


My old Seahorse was virtually vibration-free.

The lag should not be there as you increase throttle. May be a service
bullitin out that describes a rejet of the carb to solve this problem.
As
about a possible rejet to solve it and any service bullitins on this
engine.


That's what I'm thinking - or it wasn't adjusted right at the factory.

You should NEVER increase rpms/throttle when engaging in gear. That
will tear up the lower unit clutch/gears. If you can't put in gear when
at idle w/ the choke set right then there is another problem. Either it
is idled too low or something. Idle is set in gear in the water on your
boat at 600 to 800 rpms.

I requested several times that they come out with me so I could show them
the problems. They refused, saying running in a tank is sufficient.

I'm tempted to take my hand tach to the engine and find out where they've
set the idle - I suspect it's closer to 1200.

As I said, I'm taking it to a different dealer. Hope they're better (I've
dealt with them befo I have a few issues with them, but they seem more
competent and customer-oriented than the other shop)

Lloyd Sumpter
"The Tin Boat" Mirrocraft 12

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 12:20:28 -0800, Lloyd Sumpter
wrote:

This is something I suspect: the choke may not be hooked up (or adjusted
properly?) With other engines, I could usually STOP the engine by pulling
out the choke when it's warm. But in this one: no change whatsoever.

========================

I think that is your problem, it should stop immediately. Can you see
the choke linkage move with the engine cover off?

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote...

Which brings me to one reason for posting this: Is there anyone out there
in rec.boat-land that has a new-ish 9.9 4-stroke that can tell me if this
is "normal"? Does it start first pull, or after 3 or 4? Does it start on
idle? Does it idle when cold? Is there vibration when in gear at idle? And
is there a "lag" as you throttle up?

I have a '00 Honda 15 which is the same displacement as their 9.9. It normally
starts on the 2nd pull when cold. The choke increases idle speed quite a bit
(~2000rpm) so I let it fast idle a while before easing the choke off and
dropping it in gear. It does not idle particularly smoothly but does smooth out
nice just above idle. There's no lag when throttling up. Honda calls for 1100
rpm idle and I usually troll between 1300-1800 using a low pitch prop and a
trolling plate.

It sounds like your choke is suspect, how do your plugs look?

-rick-