In today's Washington Post is an article about a meeting Gephardt held
with Post reporters and editors (front page stuff). This paragraph is
extracted:
*********************
His (Gephardt's) support for going to war with Iraq, he said, was
fueled by concerns that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass
destruction, and he recalled a one-on-one briefing with CIA Director
George J. Tenet, who he said "answered emphatically yes" when asked
whether Iraq possessed such weapons. Although Gephardt said the
administration *may* [emphasis added] have exaggerated the nature of
the threat, he added, "I don't feel deceived."
***********************

So, Chuck, Doug, jps, basskisser, et al, what is it that you know that
Gephardt doesn't? Do you have some inside information that proves Bush
lied? Do you place your knowledge of the facts above those of
Gephardt?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

John, you're too easy today.

*How* did Gephardt arrive at his conclusion that SH had WMD?

Well, lets see.

According to *your post*.........

and he recalled a one-on-one briefing with CIA Director
George J. Tenet, who he said "answered emphatically yes" when asked
whether Iraq possessed such weapons.

*****
Do you have some inside information that proves Bush
lied?

No inside information required. See the following quotes by GWB:

(do note the shift from "we're absolutely know he has chemical and biological
weapons and is on the verge of going nuclear" to "we're sure he must have had
something, and we're going to keep looking until we find some shred of evidence
to prove we were probably right."

Bush speaks:

Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the
production of biological weapons. George W. Bush, President
Speech to UN General Assembly
9/12/2002

Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the
facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us
that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical
weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have George W.
Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002

The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons.
It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands
of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve
gas. George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it
had used to produce chemical and biological weapons. George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

After eleven years during which we have tried containment, sanctions,
inspections, even selected military action, the end result is that Saddam
Hussein still has chemical and biological weapons and is increasing his
capabilities to make more. And he is moving ever closer to developing a nuclear
weapon. George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of
manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or
biological weapons across broad areas George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought
significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us
that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for
nuclear weapons production. George W. Bush, President
State of the Union Address
1/28/2003

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to
produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. George W.
Bush, President
State of the Union Address
1/28/2003

We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi
field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells
us he does not have. George W. Bush, President
Radio Address
2/8/2003

In Iraq, a dictator is building and hiding weapons that could enable him to
dominate the Middle East and intimidate the civilized world -- and we will not
allow it. George W. Bush, President
Speech to the American Enterprise Institute
2/26/2003

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the
Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons
ever devised. George W. Bush, President
Address to the Nation
3/17/2003

We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi
scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed
some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them. George W. Bush,
President
NBC Interview
4/24/2003

We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so. George W. Bush, President
Remarks to Reporters
5/3/2003

I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein
-- because he had a weapons program. George W. Bush, President
Remarks to Reporters
5/6/2003

It's going to take time to find them, but we know he had them. And whether he
destroyed them, moved them or hid them, we're going to find out the truth. One
thing is for certain: Saddam Hussein no longer threatens America with weapons
of mass destruction. George W. Bush, President
Speech at a weapons factory in Ohio
5/25/2003

But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or
banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them. George W. Bush, President
Interview with TVP Poland
5/30/2003

You remember when [Secretary of State] Colin Powell stood up in front of the
world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological
weapons ...They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and
we've so far discovered two...And we'll find more weapons as time goes on.
George W. Bush, President
Press Briefing
5/30/2003

We recently found two mobile biological weapons facilities which were capable
of producing biological agents. This is the man who spent decades hiding tools
of mass murder. He knew the inspectors were looking for them. You know better
than me he's got a big country in which to hide them. We're on the look. We'll
reveal the truth George W. Bush, President
CAMP SAYLIYA, Qatar
6/5/2003

Iraq had a weapons program...Intelligence throughout the decade showed they had
a weapons program. I am absolutely convinced with time we'll find out they did
have a weapons program. George W. Bush, President
Comment to Reporters
6/9/2003

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...


Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the
facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell
us
that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use
chemical
weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have George
W.
Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002

"Sources", eh? :-) I wonder if those "sources" had self-serving reasons to
convince little George to go to war. The history books should be interesting
10 years from now.

On 01 Jan 2004 20:51:50 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

John, you're too easy today.

*How* did Gephardt arrive at his conclusion that SH had WMD?

Well, lets see.

According to *your post*.........

and he recalled a one-on-one briefing with CIA Director
George J. Tenet, who he said "answered emphatically yes" when asked
whether Iraq possessed such weapons.

*****
Do you have some inside information that proves Bush
lied?

No inside information required. See the following quotes by GWB:

(do note the shift from "we're absolutely know he has chemical and biological
weapons and is on the verge of going nuclear" to "we're sure he must have had
something, and we're going to keep looking until we find some shred of evidence
to prove we were probably right."


snipped

The question was whether he lied when he made the initial statements.
He was operating from the same info Gephardt had. The fact that he
changed his perception, as shown in your multiple quotes, does not
alter what he believed initially.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 21:10:21 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...


Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the
facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell
us
that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use
chemical
weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have George
W.
Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002

"Sources", eh? :-) I wonder if those "sources" had self-serving reasons to
convince little George to go to war. The history books should be interesting
10 years from now.

Probably the same sources that had the Demo's convinced. No?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Probably the same sources that had the Demo's convinced. No?

John H

Sources that report to the Executive Branch. Wonder who's in charge of that?

"John H" wrote in message
...

The question was whether he lied when he made the initial statements.
He was operating from the same info Gephardt had. The fact that he
changed his perception, as shown in your multiple quotes, does not
alter what he believed initially.

Perception? Get me up to speed here. Are you talking about curious George?

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 01:32:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"John H" wrote in message
.. .

The question was whether he lied when he made the initial statements.
He was operating from the same info Gephardt had. The fact that he
changed his perception, as shown in your multiple quotes, does not
alter what he believed initially.

Perception? Get me up to speed here. Are you talking about curious George?

If you want to run with Chuck, you gotta keep yourself up to speed.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On 02 Jan 2004 00:57:59 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

Probably the same sources that had the Demo's convinced. No?

John H

Sources that report to the Executive Branch. Wonder who's in charge of that?

Was Tenet a Bush appointee?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

Probably the same sources that had the Demo's convinced. No?

John H

Sources that report to the Executive Branch. Wonder who's in charge of that?

Was Tenet a Bush appointee?

John H

Not important. The head of the Executive Branch must be able to assure that all
of his underlings are doing a proper job. It is his responsibility to exercise
judgment and replace those underlings who will not serve him or the public
well.

No doubt the CIA did convince a number of people that SH was sitting on a
bulging pile of nasty weapons and ready to go nuclear any moment. It's always
tough to prove a negative, and that was the position that Iraq was in. We felt
we didn't have to prove they had the weapons, but left them the rather
impossible task of proving that they did not.

*If* Bush was taken in by the CIA, he lacks the ability to control his own
department- so how the heck can he be considered capable of running the
country?

*If* Bush (or more specifically his handlers)
knew the information coming from Scott Ritter and the UN inspectors was
credible and still adopted the position that all the information coming from
Iraq was bogus unless it agreed with the Bush agenda- once again that speaks
badly of his character and motivations.

Why couldn't the Bush crowd have come forward with a genuine argument? Example:
"We believe that Saddam Hussein's rule in Iraq is a destabilizing influence in
the middle East. We believe that Hussein is murdering large numbers of
Iraqi citizens. We believe that there may be terrorists hiding in Iraq. We feel
that it is incumbent on the United States to go there and clean house."

Well, the reason is pretty simple and it explains the misuse and deceptive
repackaging of the truth: The UN. Even though we strutted around and dismissed
the UN as "irrelevant" early last year, the WMD story gave us a weak link to
credibility under the terms of Iraq's surrender after Gulf War I. It will be
easier to implement the strategies of the NAC crowd if the UN doesn't oppose us
too much, too early.