On 24 Jan 2004 08:27:24 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On 22 Jan 2004 09:36:12 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message
Your statement that a very small percentage of wind is a product of the
sun's heat is wrong. I can see this is going to become another oil and
trailer thread. lol

No, it's not. You are stupid. The thing is this, you'll make your own
definition of what a "very small percentage" is, and that will be your
whole basis of argument. The simple fact is, and will always be, that
the sun's heat is a MINOR contributer to the earth's wind. MINOR,
twit, understand?

How about if we define "very small percentage" and MINOR as less than
half? Now, where's your proof that the sun's heat is a minor
contributor of a very small percentage of the surface wind that a
sailboat would use? Where's your proof that even all the wind on the
planet, surface or otherwise, is not the result of the sun's heat? I've
given you plenty of proof that it is. You have given none that it's
not.

Sure thing, here you go. Time to put your spin on it, to TRY to make
it look like you know anything at all. My "proof" is just as valid as
yours.

Why don't you tell us what YOU meant my "a very small percentage" and
then show some proof that whatever you defined as "a very small
percentage" of wind is the result of the sun's heat.

Well, give some proof, any proof of what you said.

Steve

I pasted a bunch of websites refuting you, but alas, they didn't get
transfered for some reason, but here is a quick paste of text taken
from one of them:
As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface

That is *not* proof that a very small percentage of wind is generated by
the sun's heat. As I suspected, you have none. Because you're wrong.

Steve

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
snip

Yes, YOU would be a better person. Anyone with reasoning skills would
know that in the above statement, "wind flow" would mean????? Yes!!!
WIND!!! This is from a science website:
As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface

Basskisser,

I hate to disagree because I like your political bent, but in this case you
are absolutely wrong.
All wind energy comes from solar heating.
End of story.

Here are a few links to support this claim (I picked easy links to start you
out):
http://infoweb.newsbank.com/elementa...bj031598_2.htm
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/me...cts/amaz6.html
http://www.escambia.k12.fl.us/schscn...indenergy.html
http://www.wintecenergy.com/wind_power.html
http://www.evsc.virginia.edu/~evscta...atmcomp_03.pdf

Real scientists (you know, with the white lab coats and thick glasses) use
real science to figure this stuff out. You can get some ideas about how the
do this by looking at this link.
http://www.spacer.com/news/quikscat-00a.html

Wind blowing and the earths rotation in a nutshell:
http://starfire.ne.uiuc.edu/ne201/co.../wind/why.html


Mark Browne

"Mark Browne" wrote in message news:JIIQb.117267$nt4.483016@attbi_s51...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
snip

Yes, YOU would be a better person. Anyone with reasoning skills would
know that in the above statement, "wind flow" would mean????? Yes!!!
WIND!!! This is from a science website:
As the Earth rotates on its axis, gravity forces this relatively
"heavy" air near the Earth's surface to spin round with it. However,
the air higher up is less affected. The difference between the speed
at which air moves close to the surface and the speed of air higher up
forms vortexes or whirlpools. This mixing causes variations in air
speed, and, consequently, "wind" is generated at the earth's surface

Basskisser,

I hate to disagree because I like your political bent, but in this case you
are absolutely wrong.
All wind energy comes from solar heating.
End of story.

Here are a few links to support this claim (I picked easy links to start you
out):
http://infoweb.newsbank.com/elementa...bj031598_2.htm
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/me...cts/amaz6.html
http://www.escambia.k12.fl.us/schscn...indenergy.html
http://www.wintecenergy.com/wind_power.html
http://www.evsc.virginia.edu/~evscta...atmcomp_03.pdf

Real scientists (you know, with the white lab coats and thick glasses) use
real science to figure this stuff out. You can get some ideas about how the
do this by looking at this link.
http://www.spacer.com/news/quikscat-00a.html

Wind blowing and the earths rotation in a nutshell:
http://starfire.ne.uiuc.edu/ne201/co.../wind/why.html


Mark Browne

Mark, in a nutshell, SOME wind is produced by convection. But, how do
you account for winds when convection has stopped, ie: surface temps.
stabilize.
In short, it's the Jetstream. Now, what does the jet stream at high
altitudes have to do with it, you ask? NOAA has excellent publications
answering just those questions. The short answer it a lot.

basskisser wrote:


Mark, in a nutshell, SOME wind is produced by convection. But, how do
you account for winds when convection has stopped, ie: surface temps.
stabilize.

When does this happen?



In short, it's the Jetstream. Now, what does the jet stream at high
altitudes have to do with it, you ask? NOAA has excellent publications
answering just those questions. The short answer it a lot.

I think you're persuing a semantic quibble. The Earth's rotation does not transfer any energy into the
atmosphere, ie it does not cause wind. Period. Not even the jet streams.

Now, the Earth's rotation does very much influence the direction of wind and the formation of weather systems
which go even further to influence wind. If you want to rant and rave the "the Earth's rotation causes wind"
then have at it, but you're hanging off the edge of a cliff here. Maybe next we can debate what the meaning of
"is" is.... go ahead without me.

DSK

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
snip
Mark, in a nutshell, SOME wind is produced by convection. But, how do
you account for winds when convection has stopped, ie: surface temps.
stabilize.
In short, it's the Jetstream. Now, what does the jet stream at high
altitudes have to do with it, you ask? NOAA has excellent publications
answering just those questions. The short answer it a lot.

The sun constantly blasts the earth with a kilowatt per square meter. Even
If we can't see it on an overcast day, it's up there. This drives the
massive convection circuit we call the jet streams. This drives a massive
conveyer belt of warm from the warm equator to the cold poles. Convection
never stops. There may be local (for us) pools of still air. This does not
change the fact that a river of air flow by far overhead.

The seeming random local weather can be thought of in much the same way as
random bubbles of movement in a boiling pot - just a lot bigger and slower.
The moving air is shaped by the Coriolis effect to form rotating pools of
air. From our prospective the air seems relatively still.

If you discount very small special cases (turbulence around a volcano) all
air movement ultimately derives from solar heating.

What's that - you ask about hurricanes? Solar heating of the water causing
rising moist air! The Coriolis effect shapes this into cyclonic circulation.

Mark Browne

On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:25:53 -0500, DSK wrote:

basskisser wrote:


Mark, in a nutshell, SOME wind is produced by convection. But, how do
you account for winds when convection has stopped, ie: surface temps.
stabilize.

When does this happen?

Silly you, it happens when the equator is the same temperature as the
poles. Everyone knows that.

Steve

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:25:53 -0500, DSK wrote:

basskisser wrote:


Mark, in a nutshell, SOME wind is produced by convection. But, how do
you account for winds when convection has stopped, ie: surface temps.
stabilize.

When does this happen?

Silly you, it happens when the equator is the same temperature as the
poles. Everyone knows that.

Steve

Are you really that stupid, or trying to be?

"Mark Browne" wrote in message news:5v9Rb.119393$Rc4.934399@attbi_s54...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
snip
Mark, in a nutshell, SOME wind is produced by convection. But, how do
you account for winds when convection has stopped, ie: surface temps.
stabilize.
In short, it's the Jetstream. Now, what does the jet stream at high
altitudes have to do with it, you ask? NOAA has excellent publications
answering just those questions. The short answer it a lot.

The sun constantly blasts the earth with a kilowatt per square meter. Even
If we can't see it on an overcast day, it's up there. This drives the
massive convection circuit we call the jet streams. This drives a massive
conveyer belt of warm from the warm equator to the cold poles. Convection
never stops. There may be local (for us) pools of still air. This does not
change the fact that a river of air flow by far overhead.

The seeming random local weather can be thought of in much the same way as
random bubbles of movement in a boiling pot - just a lot bigger and slower.
The moving air is shaped by the Coriolis effect to form rotating pools of
air. From our prospective the air seems relatively still.

If you discount very small special cases (turbulence around a volcano) all
air movement ultimately derives from solar heating.

What's that - you ask about hurricanes? Solar heating of the water causing
rising moist air! The Coriolis effect shapes this into cyclonic circulation.

Mark Browne

Mark, again, there are many, many NOAA publications available on the
web, and in print, that explains weather patterns, winds, etc. much
more clearly than I ever could here. Good reading.

On 27 Jan 2004 04:35:37 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:

(Steven Shelikoff) wrote in message ...
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:25:53 -0500, DSK wrote:

basskisser wrote:


Mark, in a nutshell, SOME wind is produced by convection. But, how do
you account for winds when convection has stopped, ie: surface temps.
stabilize.

When does this happen?

Silly you, it happens when the equator is the same temperature as the
poles. Everyone knows that.

Are you really that stupid, or trying to be?

Thanks for noticing. It's actually pretty tough trying to be as stupid
as you. "convection has stopped", "surface temps stabilize" .... LOL

Steve

On 27 Jan 2004 04:37:52 -0800, (basskisser) wrote:


Mark, again, there are many, many NOAA publications available on the
web, and in print, that explains weather patterns, winds, etc. much
more clearly than I ever could here. Good reading.

That's probably the only thing you have ever said in this NG that's
true. Congrats!

Steve