On 18 Feb 2005 10:05:15 -0800, "Juan" wrote:

Baloney. Clinton inherited a nation in debt, he paid off the debt and
the nation flourished.

No he did not. And the nation was hardly "flourshing" during his last
two years in office.

Clinton used a different accounting trick to say, during his second
term, that debt was being paid down because it was stretched over TEN
years - the surplus that Clinton and his economic team said existed,
never existed in real time - in the future, yes - at the time no. It
was the same as EBITDA - it never existed in reality. And he knew it,
economists knew it and Larry Summers Clinton's last Secretary of the
Treasury admitted it.

Here are some facts for you Jimmy Neutrons on the right and left.
This covers the Bush the Elder and Clinton economic policies.

Tax hikes failed to produce expected revenues. Income tax receipts
rose 18 percent slower rate with the taxes of the late '80s and '90s
than they did during the Regan era.

A 30 percent build-up in real federal nondefense spending. Federal
spending for civilian programs accounted for a larger share of GDP
than at any previous time in American history.

Runaway spending on Medicare, Medicaid and welfare. In constant
dollars Medicare spending grew by $75 billion or 73 percent, Medicaid
spending grew by $47 billion or 112 percent, and welfare spending
climbed by $93 billion or 72 percent.

A one-third decline in the military budget in the post-Cold War era.
Defense spending had a smaller share of the federal budget than at any
time in American history. Defense cutbacks of roughly $100 billion
helped camouflage the large nondefense spending increases in the
1990s.

Record high budget deficits in the 1990s.The nation's economy under
performed in the 1990s under Bush and Clinton relative to the 1980s.
Inflation was low, 3.6 percent, and unemployment was held in check at
6.4 percent. Other measures of economic health are far more
discouraging such as sluggish economic growth (1.8% vs 3.2% during the
Regan Era), slow job growth from 1989 to 1995 was 1.3% and the net was
a loss of 200,000 jobs and by 1995, real family income fell 5%.

And those are just the factual highlights. If you consider the other
aspects of Clinton's disregard for the economic facts of life in the
last part of his Presidency, he was just a continuation of the first
Bush's disastrous economic shepherding.

Flourished indeed.

~~ sheesh ~~

Later,

Tom

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:36:39 GMT, "Jim," wrote:

JimH wrote:
"Jim," wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

"Jim," wrote in message
...


John H wrote:


On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:57:37 GMT, "Jim," wrote:




"Jeff Gannon's" incredible access
There's evidence he got into White House briefings before he was a
"reporter."



And the only reporter with a decent question!

Thank you. Senate Democratic leaders have painted a very bleak picture
of the
U.S. economy. [Senate Minority Leader] Harry Reid [D-NV] was talking
about soup
lines. And [Senator] Hillary Clinton [D-NY] was talking about the
economy being
on the verge of collapse. Yet in the same breath they say that Social
Security
is rock solid and there's no crisis there. How are you going to work --
you've
said you are going to reach out to these people -- how are you going to
work
with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?

Good one, no?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary
to resolve it." Rene Descartes

NO! the US economy and the SS system are 2 different entities. The
market has yet to reach the level it was when Bush assumed/stole/was
anointed to/ somehow got office. UN employment (in real numbers) -- is
about the same; Millions of jobs have moved offshore, bankruptcies are up

Tell me John -- what IS good about the economy?????


I can answer that:

1. A larger than expected rise in retail sales (.06%)

2. Average hourly earnings up

3. A decrease to 5.2% in the unemployment rate

4. 1% increase in productivity during the 4th quarter 2004

5. Durable goods orders up.
6. 146,0000 new jobs in January 2005

7. 2.7% inflation rate

8. 4.4% growth in the economy

"Overall, reports indicate that the economic recovery is well
established and proceeding at a good pace. "

http://www.dallasfed.org/eyi/usecon/...501update.html, amongst
others.

For you Jim,

http://www.geocities.com/mjloundy/


Up from what point? Where is your baseline? Decrease in Un employment
since when?
How about numbers based on 2000 when Bush took office!


You made the ridiculous statement "What is *good* about the economy?" I
told you what is good. The list was certainly not all encompassing.

Yet you still cannot accept it.

Conclusion: No amount of information is going to change your mind. You
have a hard on for George W Bush and cannot get over the fact that he won.

Get a grip guy and move on.



The comparison might be from 2001 (the first year of Bush when
everything went to hell). I'd like to see things compared to the last
year of Clinton when we were doing pretty good. As I pointed out
yesterday, the DOW hasn't reached it's high point in 5 years. yesterday
it closed at 10.754; almost exactly 1000 points below what it hit under
Clinton. "Proceding at a good pace", might indicate that in 8 years
we'll be even. I don't consider that good at all.

As requested before -- where is your baseline? Shouldn't be all that
hard to tell me.

Aren't your own words, to which you chose not to comment, a good enough
baseline?

Think about it - millions of jobs have moved offshore (your words), yet
employment is about the same (your words). Bush must be doing something pretty
well.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

On 18 Feb 2005 01:24:17 -0800, "Barney Lyon" wrote:

Some snipped.

Thanks, Jim,
John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

John H wrote:
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:36:39 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


JimH wrote:

"Jim," wrote in message
...


JimH wrote:


"Jim," wrote in message
...



John H wrote:



On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:57:37 GMT, "Jim," wrote:





"Jeff Gannon's" incredible access
There's evidence he got into White House briefings before he was a
"reporter."



And the only reporter with a decent question!

Thank you. Senate Democratic leaders have painted a very bleak picture
of the
U.S. economy. [Senate Minority Leader] Harry Reid [D-NV] was talking
about soup
lines. And [Senator] Hillary Clinton [D-NY] was talking about the
economy being
on the verge of collapse. Yet in the same breath they say that Social
Security
is rock solid and there's no crisis there. How are you going to work --
you've
said you are going to reach out to these people -- how are you going to
work
with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?

Good one, no?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary
to resolve it." Rene Descartes

NO! the US economy and the SS system are 2 different entities. The
market has yet to reach the level it was when Bush assumed/stole/was
anointed to/ somehow got office. UN employment (in real numbers) -- is
about the same; Millions of jobs have moved offshore, bankruptcies are up

Tell me John -- what IS good about the economy?????


I can answer that:

1. A larger than expected rise in retail sales (.06%)

2. Average hourly earnings up

3. A decrease to 5.2% in the unemployment rate

4. 1% increase in productivity during the 4th quarter 2004

5. Durable goods orders up.
6. 146,0000 new jobs in January 2005

7. 2.7% inflation rate

8. 4.4% growth in the economy

"Overall, reports indicate that the economic recovery is well
established and proceeding at a good pace. "

http://www.dallasfed.org/eyi/usecon/...501update.html, amongst
others.

For you Jim,

http://www.geocities.com/mjloundy/


Up from what point? Where is your baseline? Decrease in Un employment
since when?
How about numbers based on 2000 when Bush took office!


You made the ridiculous statement "What is *good* about the economy?" I
told you what is good. The list was certainly not all encompassing.

Yet you still cannot accept it.

Conclusion: No amount of information is going to change your mind. You
have a hard on for George W Bush and cannot get over the fact that he won.

Get a grip guy and move on.



The comparison might be from 2001 (the first year of Bush when
everything went to hell). I'd like to see things compared to the last
year of Clinton when we were doing pretty good. As I pointed out
yesterday, the DOW hasn't reached it's high point in 5 years. yesterday
it closed at 10.754; almost exactly 1000 points below what it hit under
Clinton. "Proceding at a good pace", might indicate that in 8 years
we'll be even. I don't consider that good at all.

As requested before -- where is your baseline? Shouldn't be all that
hard to tell me.


Aren't your own words, to which you chose not to comment, a good enough
baseline?

Think about it - millions of jobs have moved offshore (your words), yet
employment is about the same (your words). Bush must be doing something pretty
well.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes


ANd you think "millions of jobs moving offshore" is a good thing?

Just a few headlines from Cnn financial news today http://money.cnn.com/

Bigger-than-expected jump in PPI is worrisome, but will it force the
central bank to get more aggressive?

Major gauges churn in tight range after biggest jump in wholesale prices
in 6 years; bonds tumble

Bonds mixed, dollar slips

From MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072/?ta=y

Stocks waver amid inflation worries

Wholesale prices moved up in January

"Jim," wrote in message
...
John H wrote:
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:36:39 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


JimH wrote:

"Jim," wrote in message
...


JimH wrote:


"Jim," wrote in message
...



John H wrote:



On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:57:37 GMT, "Jim,"
wrote:





"Jeff Gannon's" incredible access
There's evidence he got into White House briefings before he was a
"reporter."



And the only reporter with a decent question!

Thank you. Senate Democratic leaders have painted a very bleak
picture of the
U.S. economy. [Senate Minority Leader] Harry Reid [D-NV] was talking
about soup
lines. And [Senator] Hillary Clinton [D-NY] was talking about the
economy being
on the verge of collapse. Yet in the same breath they say that
Social Security
is rock solid and there's no crisis there. How are you going to
work -- you've
said you are going to reach out to these people -- how are you going
to work
with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?

Good one, no?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and
necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes

NO! the US economy and the SS system are 2 different entities. The
market has yet to reach the level it was when Bush assumed/stole/was
anointed to/ somehow got office. UN employment (in real numbers) --
is about the same; Millions of jobs have moved offshore, bankruptcies
are up

Tell me John -- what IS good about the economy?????


I can answer that:

1. A larger than expected rise in retail sales (.06%)

2. Average hourly earnings up

3. A decrease to 5.2% in the unemployment rate

4. 1% increase in productivity during the 4th quarter 2004

5. Durable goods orders up.
6. 146,0000 new jobs in January 2005

7. 2.7% inflation rate

8. 4.4% growth in the economy

"Overall, reports indicate that the economic recovery is well
established and proceeding at a good pace. "

http://www.dallasfed.org/eyi/usecon/...501update.html, amongst
others.

For you Jim,

http://www.geocities.com/mjloundy/


Up from what point? Where is your baseline? Decrease in Un employment
since when?
How about numbers based on 2000 when Bush took office!


You made the ridiculous statement "What is *good* about the economy?" I
told you what is good. The list was certainly not all encompassing.

Yet you still cannot accept it.

Conclusion: No amount of information is going to change your mind. You
have a hard on for George W Bush and cannot get over the fact that he
won.

Get a grip guy and move on.


The comparison might be from 2001 (the first year of Bush when everything
went to hell). I'd like to see things compared to the last year of
Clinton when we were doing pretty good. As I pointed out yesterday, the
DOW hasn't reached it's high point in 5 years. yesterday it closed at
10.754; almost exactly 1000 points below what it hit under Clinton.
"Proceding at a good pace", might indicate that in 8 years we'll be even.
I don't consider that good at all.

As requested before -- where is your baseline? Shouldn't be all that
hard to tell me.


Aren't your own words, to which you chose not to comment, a good enough
baseline?

Think about it - millions of jobs have moved offshore (your words), yet
employment is about the same (your words). Bush must be doing something
pretty
well.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary
to resolve it." Rene Descartes


ANd you think "millions of jobs moving offshore" is a good thing?

It's a global economy. Add to that the high union wages and pie in the sky
environmental demands and you have companies setting up manufacturing plants
where the cost of doing is cheaper and more efficient. The brawn is leaving
and being replaced by brain. That is our future here in the US.


Just a few headlines from Cnn financial news today http://money.cnn.com/

Bigger-than-expected jump in PPI is worrisome, but will it force the
central bank to get more aggressive?

Major gauges churn in tight range after biggest jump in wholesale prices
in 6 years; bonds tumble

Bonds mixed, dollar slips

Bonds are always weak when the market is strong.


From MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072/?ta=y

Stocks waver amid inflation worries

Wholesale prices moved up in January


CNN and MSNBC....could you choose more liberal sources for your news? LOL

Regardless, go and pick and choose what you want. Overall the economy is
robust. Greenspan confirms that. Factory orders remain on the increase,
also confirming that.

Go hide your money under your mattress. I am making money in this
"terrible" economy, as are many businesses and most of my friends and
family.

Doomsayers like you only slow the progress so get out of the way please.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

The economic "failure" of the Bush administration, viewed in
retrospect, can be directly laid at the feet of the Clinton
Administration.


I'm so so so tired of hearing this excuse. One wonders if there will come
a time when Bush will be forced to take responsibility for his
catastrophic screw-ups, starting with 9-11.

It's not an excuse, it is reality. Clinton's foreign policy screw ups
resulted in 9-11 and there is nothing you can do to reverse that fact.

JimH wrote:
"Jim," wrote in message
...

John H wrote:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:36:39 GMT, "Jim," wrote:



JimH wrote:


"Jim," wrote in message
...



JimH wrote:



"Jim," wrote in message
...




John H wrote:




On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:57:37 GMT, "Jim,"
wrote:






"Jeff Gannon's" incredible access
There's evidence he got into White House briefings before he was a
"reporter."



And the only reporter with a decent question!

Thank you. Senate Democratic leaders have painted a very bleak
picture of the
U.S. economy. [Senate Minority Leader] Harry Reid [D-NV] was talking
about soup
lines. And [Senator] Hillary Clinton [D-NY] was talking about the
economy being
on the verge of collapse. Yet in the same breath they say that
Social Security
is rock solid and there's no crisis there. How are you going to
work -- you've
said you are going to reach out to these people -- how are you going
to work
with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?

Good one, no?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and
necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes

NO! the US economy and the SS system are 2 different entities. The
market has yet to reach the level it was when Bush assumed/stole/was
anointed to/ somehow got office. UN employment (in real numbers) --
is about the same; Millions of jobs have moved offshore, bankruptcies
are up

Tell me John -- what IS good about the economy?????


I can answer that:

1. A larger than expected rise in retail sales (.06%)

2. Average hourly earnings up

3. A decrease to 5.2% in the unemployment rate

4. 1% increase in productivity during the 4th quarter 2004

5. Durable goods orders up.
6. 146,0000 new jobs in January 2005

7. 2.7% inflation rate

8. 4.4% growth in the economy

"Overall, reports indicate that the economic recovery is well
established and proceeding at a good pace. "

http://www.dallasfed.org/eyi/usecon/...501update.html, amongst
others.

For you Jim,

http://www.geocities.com/mjloundy/


Up from what point? Where is your baseline? Decrease in Un employment
since when?
How about numbers based on 2000 when Bush took office!


You made the ridiculous statement "What is *good* about the economy?" I
told you what is good. The list was certainly not all encompassing.

Yet you still cannot accept it.

Conclusion: No amount of information is going to change your mind. You
have a hard on for George W Bush and cannot get over the fact that he
won.

Get a grip guy and move on.


The comparison might be from 2001 (the first year of Bush when everything
went to hell). I'd like to see things compared to the last year of
Clinton when we were doing pretty good. As I pointed out yesterday, the
DOW hasn't reached it's high point in 5 years. yesterday it closed at
10.754; almost exactly 1000 points below what it hit under Clinton.
"Proceding at a good pace", might indicate that in 8 years we'll be even.
I don't consider that good at all.

As requested before -- where is your baseline? Shouldn't be all that
hard to tell me.


Aren't your own words, to which you chose not to comment, a good enough
baseline?

Think about it - millions of jobs have moved offshore (your words), yet
employment is about the same (your words). Bush must be doing something
pretty
well.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary
to resolve it." Rene Descartes


ANd you think "millions of jobs moving offshore" is a good thing?


It's a global economy. Add to that the high union wages and pie in the sky
environmental demands and you have companies setting up manufacturing plants
where the cost of doing is cheaper and more efficient. The brawn is leaving
and being replaced by brain. That is our future here in the US.


Just a few headlines from Cnn financial news today http://money.cnn.com/

Bigger-than-expected jump in PPI is worrisome, but will it force the
central bank to get more aggressive?

Major gauges churn in tight range after biggest jump in wholesale prices
in 6 years; bonds tumble

Bonds mixed, dollar slips


Bonds are always weak when the market is strong.


From MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072/?ta=y

Stocks waver amid inflation worries

Wholesale prices moved up in January



CNN and MSNBC....could you choose more liberal sources for your news? LOL

Regardless, go and pick and choose what you want. Overall the economy is
robust. Greenspan confirms that. Factory orders remain on the increase,
also confirming that.

Go hide your money under your mattress. I am making money in this
"terrible" economy, as are many businesses and most of my friends and
family.

Doomsayers like you only slow the progress so get out of the way please.




Might I suggest that bonds are week, based on the weekness of the dollar?

Sounds like youget all your news from Faux -- didn't know they did
financials, just lies and BS.

And as for the economy, we're still down 1000 points from Clinton times.

"Jim," wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Jim," wrote in message
...

John H wrote:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:36:39 GMT, "Jim," wrote:



JimH wrote:


"Jim," wrote in message
...



JimH wrote:



"Jim," wrote in message
.. .




John H wrote:




On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:57:37 GMT, "Jim,"
wrote:






"Jeff Gannon's" incredible access
There's evidence he got into White House briefings before he was
a "reporter."



And the only reporter with a decent question!

Thank you. Senate Democratic leaders have painted a very bleak
picture of the
U.S. economy. [Senate Minority Leader] Harry Reid [D-NV] was
talking about soup
lines. And [Senator] Hillary Clinton [D-NY] was talking about the
economy being
on the verge of collapse. Yet in the same breath they say that
Social Security
is rock solid and there's no crisis there. How are you going to
work -- you've
said you are going to reach out to these people -- how are you
going to work
with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?

Good one, no?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake
Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and
necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes

NO! the US economy and the SS system are 2 different entities.
The market has yet to reach the level it was when Bush
assumed/stole/was anointed to/ somehow got office. UN employment
(in real numbers) -- is about the same; Millions of jobs have
moved offshore, bankruptcies are up

Tell me John -- what IS good about the economy?????


I can answer that:

1. A larger than expected rise in retail sales (.06%)

2. Average hourly earnings up

3. A decrease to 5.2% in the unemployment rate

4. 1% increase in productivity during the 4th quarter 2004

5. Durable goods orders up.
6. 146,0000 new jobs in January 2005

7. 2.7% inflation rate

8. 4.4% growth in the economy

"Overall, reports indicate that the economic recovery is well
established and proceeding at a good pace. "

http://www.dallasfed.org/eyi/usecon/...501update.html,
amongst others.

For you Jim,

http://www.geocities.com/mjloundy/


Up from what point? Where is your baseline? Decrease in Un
employment since when?
How about numbers based on 2000 when Bush took office!


You made the ridiculous statement "What is *good* about the economy?"
I told you what is good. The list was certainly not all encompassing.

Yet you still cannot accept it.

Conclusion: No amount of information is going to change your mind.
You have a hard on for George W Bush and cannot get over the fact that
he won.

Get a grip guy and move on.


The comparison might be from 2001 (the first year of Bush when
everything went to hell). I'd like to see things compared to the last
year of Clinton when we were doing pretty good. As I pointed out
yesterday, the DOW hasn't reached it's high point in 5 years.
yesterday it closed at 10.754; almost exactly 1000 points below what it
hit under Clinton. "Proceding at a good pace", might indicate that in 8
years we'll be even. I don't consider that good at all.

As requested before -- where is your baseline? Shouldn't be all that
hard to tell me.


Aren't your own words, to which you chose not to comment, a good enough
baseline?

Think about it - millions of jobs have moved offshore (your words), yet
employment is about the same (your words). Bush must be doing something
pretty
well.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary
to resolve it." Rene Descartes


ANd you think "millions of jobs moving offshore" is a good thing?


It's a global economy. Add to that the high union wages and pie in the
sky environmental demands and you have companies setting up manufacturing
plants where the cost of doing is cheaper and more efficient. The brawn
is leaving and being replaced by brain. That is our future here in the
US.


Just a few headlines from Cnn financial news today http://money.cnn.com/

Bigger-than-expected jump in PPI is worrisome, but will it force the
central bank to get more aggressive?

Major gauges churn in tight range after biggest jump in wholesale prices
in 6 years; bonds tumble

Bonds mixed, dollar slips


Bonds are always weak when the market is strong.


From MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072/?ta=y

Stocks waver amid inflation worries

Wholesale prices moved up in January



CNN and MSNBC....could you choose more liberal sources for your news?
LOL

Regardless, go and pick and choose what you want. Overall the economy is
robust. Greenspan confirms that. Factory orders remain on the increase,
also confirming that.

Go hide your money under your mattress. I am making money in this
"terrible" economy, as are many businesses and most of my friends and
family.

Doomsayers like you only slow the progress so get out of the way please.


Might I suggest that bonds are week, based on the weekness of the dollar?

The bond market is always weak during a stong stock market.


Sounds like youget all your news from Faux -- didn't know they did
financials, just lies and BS.

Nope. I get my news from a variety of sources.

Are you always this negative Jim? Life must be a real bitch for you.



And as for the economy, we're still down 1000 points from Clinton times.

That was a false market based on dot com companies with no real assets. Yep
the bubble burst....and it was during Clinton's watch.

JimH wrote:

"Jim," wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

"Jim," wrote in message
...


John H wrote:


On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:36:39 GMT, "Jim," wrote:




JimH wrote:



"Jim," wrote in message
...




JimH wrote:




"Jim," wrote in message
. ..





John H wrote:





On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:57:37 GMT, "Jim,"
wrote:







"Jeff Gannon's" incredible access
There's evidence he got into White House briefings before he was
a "reporter."



And the only reporter with a decent question!

Thank you. Senate Democratic leaders have painted a very bleak
picture of the
U.S. economy. [Senate Minority Leader] Harry Reid [D-NV] was
talking about soup
lines. And [Senator] Hillary Clinton [D-NY] was talking about the
economy being
on the verge of collapse. Yet in the same breath they say that
Social Security
is rock solid and there's no crisis there. How are you going to
work -- you've
said you are going to reach out to these people -- how are you
going to work
with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?

Good one, no?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake
Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and
necessary to resolve it." Rene Descartes

NO! the US economy and the SS system are 2 different entities.
The market has yet to reach the level it was when Bush
assumed/stole/was anointed to/ somehow got office. UN employment
(in real numbers) -- is about the same; Millions of jobs have
moved offshore, bankruptcies are up

Tell me John -- what IS good about the economy?????


I can answer that:

1. A larger than expected rise in retail sales (.06%)

2. Average hourly earnings up

3. A decrease to 5.2% in the unemployment rate

4. 1% increase in productivity during the 4th quarter 2004

5. Durable goods orders up.
6. 146,0000 new jobs in January 2005

7. 2.7% inflation rate

8. 4.4% growth in the economy

"Overall, reports indicate that the economic recovery is well
established and proceeding at a good pace. "

http://www.dallasfed.org/eyi/usecon/...501update.html,
amongst others.

For you Jim,

http://www.geocities.com/mjloundy/


Up from what point? Where is your baseline? Decrease in Un
employment since when?
How about numbers based on 2000 when Bush took office!


You made the ridiculous statement "What is *good* about the economy?"
I told you what is good. The list was certainly not all encompassing.

Yet you still cannot accept it.

Conclusion: No amount of information is going to change your mind.
You have a hard on for George W Bush and cannot get over the fact that
he won.

Get a grip guy and move on.


The comparison might be from 2001 (the first year of Bush when
everything went to hell). I'd like to see things compared to the last
year of Clinton when we were doing pretty good. As I pointed out
yesterday, the DOW hasn't reached it's high point in 5 years.
yesterday it closed at 10.754; almost exactly 1000 points below what it
hit under Clinton. "Proceding at a good pace", might indicate that in 8
years we'll be even. I don't consider that good at all.

As requested before -- where is your baseline? Shouldn't be all that
hard to tell me.


Aren't your own words, to which you chose not to comment, a good enough
baseline?

Think about it - millions of jobs have moved offshore (your words), yet
employment is about the same (your words). Bush must be doing something
pretty
well.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary
to resolve it." Rene Descartes


ANd you think "millions of jobs moving offshore" is a good thing?


It's a global economy. Add to that the high union wages and pie in the
sky environmental demands and you have companies setting up manufacturing
plants where the cost of doing is cheaper and more efficient. The brawn
is leaving and being replaced by brain. That is our future here in the
US.



Just a few headlines from Cnn financial news today http://money.cnn.com/

Bigger-than-expected jump in PPI is worrisome, but will it force the
central bank to get more aggressive?

Major gauges churn in tight range after biggest jump in wholesale prices
in 6 years; bonds tumble

Bonds mixed, dollar slips


Bonds are always weak when the market is strong.


From MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072/?ta=y

Stocks waver amid inflation worries

Wholesale prices moved up in January



CNN and MSNBC....could you choose more liberal sources for your news?
LOL

Regardless, go and pick and choose what you want. Overall the economy is
robust. Greenspan confirms that. Factory orders remain on the increase,
also confirming that.

Go hide your money under your mattress. I am making money in this
"terrible" economy, as are many businesses and most of my friends and
family.

Doomsayers like you only slow the progress so get out of the way please.


Might I suggest that bonds are week, based on the weekness of the dollar?


The bond market is always weak during a stong stock market.


Sounds like youget all your news from Faux -- didn't know they did
financials, just lies and BS.


Nope. I get my news from a variety of sources.

Such as??? newsmax, limbaugh, O'reilly et all?

Are you always this negative Jim? Life must be a real bitch for you.



And as for the economy, we're still down 1000 points from Clinton times.


That was a false market based on dot com companies with no real assets. Yep
the bubble burst....and it was during Clinton's watch.




I think of myself as a realist John, and having lived under all
presidents since rousevelt, I have to say that even considering Nixon,
Bush is the least capable, most arrogent, and purposlyignorant president
to date. He admits he doesn't read the news, he has no idea of other
cultures (other than mexican, where he probably learned from whores).
He feals he's above hold press confrences. and has stated something to
the effect that he feals "ordained by God" for the job.

I'm not negative, just scared the SOB will **** the country so bad it
will take more than my lifetime to recover.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:02:01 GMT, "Jim," wrote:

John H wrote:
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:36:39 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


JimH wrote:

"Jim," wrote in message
...


JimH wrote:


"Jim," wrote in message
...



John H wrote:



On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:57:37 GMT, "Jim," wrote:





"Jeff Gannon's" incredible access
There's evidence he got into White House briefings before he was a
"reporter."



And the only reporter with a decent question!

Thank you. Senate Democratic leaders have painted a very bleak picture
of the
U.S. economy. [Senate Minority Leader] Harry Reid [D-NV] was talking
about soup
lines. And [Senator] Hillary Clinton [D-NY] was talking about the
economy being
on the verge of collapse. Yet in the same breath they say that Social
Security
is rock solid and there's no crisis there. How are you going to work --
you've
said you are going to reach out to these people -- how are you going to
work
with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?

Good one, no?

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD, on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary
to resolve it." Rene Descartes

NO! the US economy and the SS system are 2 different entities. The
market has yet to reach the level it was when Bush assumed/stole/was
anointed to/ somehow got office. UN employment (in real numbers) -- is
about the same; Millions of jobs have moved offshore, bankruptcies are up

Tell me John -- what IS good about the economy?????


I can answer that:

1. A larger than expected rise in retail sales (.06%)

2. Average hourly earnings up

3. A decrease to 5.2% in the unemployment rate

4. 1% increase in productivity during the 4th quarter 2004

5. Durable goods orders up.
6. 146,0000 new jobs in January 2005

7. 2.7% inflation rate

8. 4.4% growth in the economy

"Overall, reports indicate that the economic recovery is well
established and proceeding at a good pace. "

http://www.dallasfed.org/eyi/usecon/...501update.html, amongst
others.

For you Jim,

http://www.geocities.com/mjloundy/


Up from what point? Where is your baseline? Decrease in Un employment
since when?
How about numbers based on 2000 when Bush took office!


You made the ridiculous statement "What is *good* about the economy?" I
told you what is good. The list was certainly not all encompassing.

Yet you still cannot accept it.

Conclusion: No amount of information is going to change your mind. You
have a hard on for George W Bush and cannot get over the fact that he won.

Get a grip guy and move on.



The comparison might be from 2001 (the first year of Bush when
everything went to hell). I'd like to see things compared to the last
year of Clinton when we were doing pretty good. As I pointed out
yesterday, the DOW hasn't reached it's high point in 5 years. yesterday
it closed at 10.754; almost exactly 1000 points below what it hit under
Clinton. "Proceding at a good pace", might indicate that in 8 years
we'll be even. I don't consider that good at all.

As requested before -- where is your baseline? Shouldn't be all that
hard to tell me.


Aren't your own words, to which you chose not to comment, a good enough
baseline?

Think about it - millions of jobs have moved offshore (your words), yet
employment is about the same (your words). Bush must be doing something pretty
well.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes


ANd you think "millions of jobs moving offshore" is a good thing?

Just a few headlines from Cnn financial news today http://money.cnn.com/

Bigger-than-expected jump in PPI is worrisome, but will it force the
central bank to get more aggressive?

Major gauges churn in tight range after biggest jump in wholesale prices
in 6 years; bonds tumble

Bonds mixed, dollar slips

From MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072/?ta=y

Stocks waver amid inflation worries

Wholesale prices moved up in January

I think you answered your own question when you started this thread!

Wake up and smell the roses. There really *is* a horse in there somewhere.

John H

On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD,
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes