America in the Mystic River 1905 C.H.J. SNIDER

AMERICA'S CUP

The America had won the America's cup in a fleet of 7 schooners and 8
cutters competing for the same trophy, in the same race, in 18??. Lord
Ashbury, in an attempt to regain the Cup. At that time the Americans
built and entered 23 yachts to prevent him from winning. That was 23
yachts out to prevent one from winning. But Ashbury let that pass. His
--came tenth in the single race. He made no complaints, and next year
he came back with another challenger, the schooner Livonia

The cupholders, with some rudiments of sportsmanship, cut their
defenders down to four, to be used only one at a time, according as
conditions varied, and permitted seven races, of which Livonia would
have to win four, to lift the cup. She was beaten twice by a light
weather defender and protested the second race on an alleged foul. Then
she won a race with defender breaking down. It blew hard after that and
they put in a fresh heavy weather defender, which won the next two
races. Ashbury toed the line for the sixth time. No defender appearing,
he sailed around the course and claimed the race. This claim was
disallowed so he sailed home, marveling at some people's ideas.

Yachtsmen of Britain thought with him and for four years no attention
was paid to the cup. Then Canada got a sailing Governor General, the
Marquis of Dufferin and Aya. His letters from High Latitudes, written to
his mother from the cabin of his schooner yacht in Arctic seas, are
salty and charming though well over a century out of date. Maritime east
coast Canada was too busy making money out of wooden ships to spend any
money on the frivolity of yachting, but Canada-on-the-Lakes stepped in.

Schooner interest was then running strong in this banner province. Five
hundred Canadian schooners were in the lake trade at this time, all
centreboarders, of local design, and many of them good enough to "go
foreign" - to Hamburg, as the Jessie Drummond did, and to South Africa,
as did the Sea Gull of Oakville,and to the Black Sea like the Jessiek
Scarth. Those all came back too. And more.

Capt. Alex. Cuthbert of Cobourg was a vessel captain and a professional
yacht skipper. He built a dozen large centreboard yachts for lake
Ontario on the flatiron model and raced some of them himself, with
considerable success. He was not a scientific naval architect, but
better than a rule-of-thumb designer and of unlimited confidence.

Persuaded that here was in Alex. Cuthbert a freshwater sailor, skipper
of Gorilla, designer and bidder and skipper of Dauntless, the
Vice-Commodore of the Royal Canadian Yacht , Charles Gifford
commissioned Cuthbert to design and build a schooner yacht to challenge
for the America's Cup. Gifford, then captain and later colonel of
militia, living in Cobourg, was an ardent yachtsman, owning and racing
the phenomenal sloop Gorilla He secured the sponsorship of his club for
the challenge and a small syndicate was formed, but the burden of the
quixotic adventure lay upon this sailing soldier. He named his new yacht
Countess of Dufferin~ in honour of the new Governor General's lady.

The Countess of Dufferin was built beside the old east pier in Cobourg,
by Capt. Cuthbert 'with his own adze and handsaw,' at a cost of $5000.,
an extremely low figure even in those days for an America's Cup
challenge. Capt. Dan Rooney, then a boy in nearby Corktown, had the chip
gathering privileges of the shipyard, and recalled her chips and shaving
of clear white pine and Northumberland County oak which made excellent
kindling for the breakfast fire.

The Countess of Dufferin (the yacht. not the lady) was launched in May
with due ceremony, and Capt. Gifford took her on a tour of the lake with
natural pride. She was 107' overall, 23 ft. Sin. beam, and 101 feet on
the waterline. Her after overhang was 11 feet, and her forward overhand
little or none, her carved cu****er giving her the appearance of an
overhanging or clipper bow without its reality. She was on a draught
ranging between 7 feet 3 inches and 6feet6 inches, is said to have
spread 4,000 yards of canvas. Just how much 4000 yards really meant is
hard to say, as this was length of sailcloth of varying width. If
twenty-two inches was the width, then the Countess of Dufferin had
22,000 sq. ft. of sail.

This appears to be a lot of sail. The Bluenose, 40' longer, and drawing
16', only had 10,000 sq.ft. of sail in full racing trim.

With over 100' on the waterline, the Countess was the largest yacht on
the Lakes, and had nothing to race against or use to tune her rig before
heading for the big race.

The 50 day trip to New York by way of the St. Lawrence, Halifax, long
Island Sound and Hell's Gate was, according to the detailed log
published in C.H.J. Snider's Schooner Days, not very eventful.

There was no auxiliary power in 1876 except the "white ash breeze,"
which meant taking to the oars, afterwards humorously known as the
Armstrong motor. When a sailing vessel got into a calm she stayed in it
until she got out, either by a breeze springing up or her crew springing
to the sweeps, or towing ahead in her boat, or kedging her by running
light anchors ahead, hauling her up to one by a Long line and going
ahead with the second anchor when the first had been tripped., These
resources only served for short distances.

The last entry in the log of the trip to New York is dated July 17th, 1876.

"A calm this morning. We weighed anchor about 5 a.m. Beautiful morning,
the fellows jumped off the yacht for a bathe unabashed

"Noon a stiff breeze from S. W up and we commenced beating up. At 3 p.m.
took a reef in Foresail 2 in the mainsail and took the jib. Dead beat to
windward to Hell Gate when the tide was so strong as to force us to
anchor at 6p.m. at Astoria.

"At 7 weighed anchor, the tide betting slack and beat through Hell Gate
and all the way to Governors Island. A strong breeze dead to windward -
the tide strong in our favour and we proceeded. The yacht was saluted on
every hand as she proceeded and worked admirably with whole fore and
after canvas, we brought up to an anchor at 8.50 p.m. amongst some other
schooners abreast of Governors Island.

"In passing Hell Gate, one of our fellows was nearly hung by the neck by
a painter of a small boat which a fellow threw aboard. He ran to catch
it contrary to orders and it coiled around his neck and dragged him
along the quarter deck"

The log ends with a foot note, a memorandum made afterward of the
official measurements of the Countess and of the Madeline, the schooner
yacht selected to meet her. it reads:

Measurements of the Countess of Dufferin and Madeline taken by the New
York Yacht Club:

C M

Tonnage

Old measurement 138.2 tons. 49 tons

Length (In feet)
Overall 100.35 106.4
Length Waterline 95.53 95.2
Beam 23.55 24.3
Depth hold 7.3 7.75
Draught 7.1 7.28
Cubic contents 9,208.4 8,499.17
Length Boat (carried
ondeck) 16 12

The New York Yacht Club was courteous to its country cousin, the
Countess from Canada, but the American press went mad over her. The
tough time she had beating through Hells Gate and escaping a hanging was
paradise compared to her reception by the seagoing bow-wows of the
sporting pages. They called her "a clumsy coaster rather than a racer,"
"a bad imitation of a Yankee yacht built in Canada," "a clapboard top
and roughcast bottom, with sails fitting like a purser's shirt on a
handspike." The worst of it was that there was some truth in what they
said. Nevertheless the gallant Gifford put her into the Brenton Reef
trophy race from Sandy Hook to Newport and back. something like the
Rochester race around Lake Ontario in the 1950s. She beat the famous
America herself to the Reef,

The America was not new when this happened in 1876, but was still in the
first rank of American yachts. In 1873 Gen. Benjamin Butler had bought
her out of the U.S. navy and reconditioned her, giving her a modern rig.
It was larger than the one under which, in 1851, she had captured the
Queen's Cup, now called America's Cup.

The first half of the long race around Brenton Reef lightship must have
been all downhill. The Countess, a centreboarder drawing only seven feet
with board up, ran away from America, a keel yacht drawing 11 feet. But
when they rounded the lightship and hauled on the wind good night!
America, Tidal Wave, Wanderer and Idler all waded past the Countess and
she finished the race hours behind.

Both of her topsails, set on yards and clubs like a cutter's, were too
big, the foremast one useless except for one tack. It had to be lowered
completely, carried around, and hoisted up again every time she came
about. Her main topmast staysail could only be made to draw by hoisting
it upside down.

The mainsail had stretched beyond its spars, and hung like a bag. She
had to carry her jibtopsail all the time because this ageing sail gave
her a weather helm. Jibtopsails are often a handicap going to windward,
a griping mainsail a hindrance always.

The schooner had been in the water ever since her launching three months
before, and caulking and planking had both swelled with the continued
immersion. She was scaly as an alligator, the putty sticking out of her
seams in lumps and ridges. And her crew of 10 was not nearly large
enough to handle her racing canvas.

She had to be hauled out, scraped, polished and black leaded. She had
been so roughly finished that they used jackplanes on her before any
polishing could be attempted. All her sails had to be recut, and more to
be got. She needed three or four jibtopsails for varying conditions, and
maintopmast staysails to match, and balloon canvas. She hadn't even a
spinnaker. All she had for running was a squaresail. And she needed a
dozen more men.

Where was the money for this to come from?

Major Gifford had put all he could afford into the venture. John Bell,
Q,C. and the Corbys from Belleville had contributed to the syndicate. So
too had Major Torrance, and Messrs. Thos. Legett and Murray Geddes and
Fred Lucas, all of Hamilton, and in the volunteer crew, Fred Lucas was a
brother of Allan Lucas, later commodore of the Royal Hamilton Yacht
Club. The $100 each had put up for the voyage was all gone. There had to
be a further call. There was little Toronto money, apart from what
Messrs. Boswell and Jones may have provided. The RCYC had supplied on
the auspices for the challenge.

The enterprise had been looked upon as a speculation by a professional
sailor and builder, who had induced Vice-Commodore Gifford to take on
more than Hercules could handle.

Capt. Cuthbert of Cobourg, designer, builder and sailing-master of the
Countess, had built and sailed and sold several successful lake yachts.
He was cock-a-hoop over the defeat his sloop Annie Cuthbert had
inflicted on the American designed Cora, which bore the bell on the lakes.

He and his townsman Major Gifford had embarked on this audacious venture
for the Blue Ribbon of the yachting world without sufficient capital to
carry it through, and ignoring the cardinal fact that in sport and in
war Americans will spend the last dollar, the last nickel and the last
red cent before they will be beaten. This mistake is all that can be
fairly charged against the two Cobourg sailors.

(One may note many similarities in the above descriptions to the Canada
I challenge for the America's Cup in 1983, by the Secret Cove B.C. Yacht
Club, which fortunately received considerable financial support from the
Toronto area sailors.)

New York yachtsmen were not as ungenerous as the newspapers or as
Canadian I-told-you-so's. They lent sails, advice, and credit. The poor
Countess came into combat on Aug. 11, 1876, reinforced with some sailors
from the New York yacht Comet and much improved - although needing much
more.

The American defender, Madeline, her polished copper bottom shining like
gold, won the first race, a 38 mile triangular affair, by the
comfortable margin of ten minutes; and the next, 20 miles to windward
and back, by 27 minutes and 14 seconds. The Countess could have done
better if better prepared. But she wasn't.

The America, which sailed over the course, beat the Countess by 12 minutes.

The Countess came back to Lake Ontario by painful stages, after a
marshal's sale in New York of Major Gifford's interests. She took part
in lake regattas and did well. She was "terrific on a reach in smooth
water, and is said to have logged 14 knots more than once. Major
Gifford's journal mentions her doing 11 and knots in cruising trim while
at sea.

In 1879 she lay lonely at anchor in Burlington Bay, for sale at $5,000
with no takers; 25 cents a head admission for sightseers. Capt. Pine of
Chicago, a schooner captain who had made money and later became
commodore of the Chicago Yacht Club, bought her at a bargain and took
her west. She sailed some great races on Lake Michigan.

Dismantled she became a floating clubhouse. During the World's Fair of
1893 she was taken outside the breakwater and scuttled, and there she
lies, sanded over these many years. A great yacht, named after a great
lady, capable of great things, but less fortunate in fulfilment than her
gracious namesake.

"Jim," wrote in message
...
America in the Mystic River 1905 C.H.J. SNIDER

AMERICA'S CUP

The Americas Cup grew to be considered a 'sissy race' by 1919. As a matter
of fact, when the race was called because of a 'twenty-three mile an hour
gale', real fishermen/racers started competing for the Fisherman's trophy.
see http://www.histori.ca/minutes/minute.do?ID=10213

Don White wrote:
The Americas Cup grew to be considered a 'sissy race' by 1919. As a matter
of fact, when the race was called because of a 'twenty-three mile an hour
gale', real fishermen/racers started competing for the Fisherman's trophy.
see http://www.histori.ca/minutes/minute.do?ID=10213



That's funny, considered a sissy race by those who couldn't win it? The
fact is that advances in technology made sloops faster than schooners by
the middle 1890s.

But the schooner rig remained the dominant rig for working vessels. We
forget that sailboats were the 18-wheel trucks of the pre WW1 economy.
Literally hundreds of them crowded every waterfront of every sizeable
town in the U.S. and Canada. No wonder that the schooner races were a
matter of big interest... and no wonder that schooners came to be looked
down on as "blue collar" type boats by the super wealthy who could
afford to play in the America's Cup.

There were a number of fast American schooners, mostly from New
England.... mostly from Gloucester Mass in fact... a few of which may
have been as fast... but none of them managed to put together a racing
crew capable of beating the Bluenose. Her captain (Angus Mc-something
IIRC) was a master racing skipper, an unusual skill among blue-collar
cargo & fishing sailormen.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..

That's funny, considered a sissy race by those who couldn't win it? The
fact is that advances in technology made sloops faster than schooners by
the middle 1890s.

snip
.. Her captain (Angus Mc-something
IIRC) was a master racing skipper, an unusual skill among blue-collar
cargo & fishing sailormen.



The point was...the lace hanky crowd wouldn't go out to race in a 23 mph
breeze. Maybe they knew they couldn't win in a stiff breeze?

Bluenose's captain was Angus Walters.

Don White wrote:
The point was...the lace hanky crowd wouldn't go out to race in a 23 mph
breeze. Maybe they knew they couldn't win in a stiff breeze?


Nah, they were afraid of breaking the boats. It's still the same in a
lot of cases... one club I used to race with always cancelled races if
it blew more than 15 or so. In the last America's Cup the challenger's
series had it written into the race instructions that they would not
hold races in sustained winds over 18 knots or gusts over 22... but that
was so the challengers wouldn't have expensive breakdowns. In the actual
America's Cup match there was no such rule, and they did actually sail a
couple of races in a good blow... and broke stuff!

Bluenose's captain was Angus Walters.


Thanks for the correction. Isn't the captain of Bluenose 2 his son?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..

Thanks for the correction. Isn't the captain of Bluenose 2 his son?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King



Used to be....now I believe it's a 'Phil Watson'.
http://www.bluenose2.ns.ca/public_ht...g/goodview.php

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 01:15:03 GMT, "Jim," wrote:

America in the Mystic River 1905 C.H.J. SNIDER

AMERICA'S CUP

The America had won the America's cup in a fleet of 7 schooners and 8
cutters competing for the same trophy, in the same race, in 18??. Lord
Ashbury, in an attempt to regain the Cup. At that time the Americans
built and entered 23 yachts to prevent him from winning. That was 23
yachts out to prevent one from winning. But Ashbury let that pass. His
--came tenth in the single race. He made no complaints, and next year
he came back with another challenger, the schooner Livonia

I was the lead CAD design officer, for the original America hull. I am
still collecting 6 digits checks, as residual payments.

Harry Krause wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 01:15:03 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


America in the Mystic River 1905 C.H.J. SNIDER

AMERICA'S CUP

The America had won the America's cup in a fleet of 7 schooners and 8
cutters competing for the same trophy, in the same race, in 18??. Lord
Ashbury, in an attempt to regain the Cup. At that time the Americans
built and entered 23 yachts to prevent him from winning. That was 23
yachts out to prevent one from winning. But Ashbury let that pass. His
--came tenth in the single race. He made no complaints, and next year
he came back with another challenger, the schooner Livonia


I was the lead CAD design officer, for the original America hull. I am
still collecting 6 digits checks, as residual payments.

AS predicted -- the truce didn't last a week.

"Jim," wrote in message
...
Harry Krause wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 01:15:03 GMT, "Jim," wrote:


America in the Mystic River 1905 C.H.J. SNIDER

AMERICA'S CUP

The America had won the America's cup in a fleet of 7 schooners and 8
cutters competing for the same trophy, in the same race, in 18??. Lord
Ashbury, in an attempt to regain the Cup. At that time the Americans
built and entered 23 yachts to prevent him from winning. That was 23
yachts out to prevent one from winning. But Ashbury let that pass.
His --came tenth in the single race. He made no complaints, and next
year he came back with another challenger, the schooner Livonia


I was the lead CAD design officer, for the original America hull. I am
still collecting 6 digits checks, as residual payments.

AS predicted -- the truce didn't last a week.

For that one person. Don't throw in the towel Jimcomma.

Did you ever sign on?