When an expert responds to her posts with a different opinion, I enjoy
reading
both. *You*, in my opinion, are not an expert. Therefore your snide
comments
fall into the 'inane' category.
--
John H
************

When an "expert" repsonds to a post about a technical matter, he or she
will be able to do so without making personal attacks and insults the
basis of his or her remarks.

What would you think if you hired a surveyor, and he showed up and
began the process with, "This boat has to be a piece of crap. I can
tell without looking at it. The reason I am so sure is that I know the
present owner, and he is the lowest form of life on the
planet............."?

An expert should be able to render an opinion in an adult and objective
manner.

Of course, if the only field in which one is really an expert is the
depth of their own disgust for other people then opinions expressed in
*that* field of expertise will indeed, read like a non-stop personal
attack.

Gould,

When I have looked used NADA prices and compared them to the listed price in
boattraders.com, I found them within the 10%-20% range of the prices listed.
Since I was always looking at smaller boats, I just checked on a 1972 GB 50
Trawler and found it was 50% of the listed price in boattrader.com.

I agree, when you have such a wide range, it does not have much value.





wrote in message
oups.com...
The book does not dictate a price, but it can be an effective tool
while
negotiating.


**********

Nonsense. You might as well rely on saying "My brother-in-law says
your boat is only worth XXXX.

Put yourself in the seller's shoes. When the seller listed the boat, it
is very probable that he did some research on the local market that
included sales trends and selling prices for boats similar to the one
he is selling. To put yourself in the seller's shoes, imagine you put
your house up for sale and, rather than throwing a dart at sheet of
numbers on the wall, you priced the boat at or just slightly above the
prevailing price trend in your area.

Let's say that after you had your house listed for a week, an offer for
half price is presented by the broker. When you say, "That's almost an
insult! What makes this guy think he can buy
my house for so much less than my neighbors are selling their houses
for?"....how quickly would you cave in when the broker replied, "The
buyer went on the internet, found some site
where a group of Automobile Dealers has expressed an opinion about the
value of your boat, and as far as he's concerned that's all its worth"?

We actually *do* agree on one thing. Knowing the actual, recent, local
price tendencies for a boat can be an effective negotiating tactic.
This information is available, (I described how to obtain it earlier in
the thread), and useful. Using some fairy tale number from a
discredited source won't cause an informed seller to give his boat away
at half price. Ain't gonna happen.

Now of course if it were a political debate instead of a boating
transaction, the guy with the phony numbers would just keep repeating
them over, and over, and over again until everybody else began
believing they might be true. :-)

On 23 Mar 2005 08:20:40 -0800, wrote:

When an expert responds to her posts with a different opinion, I enjoy
reading
both. *You*, in my opinion, are not an expert. Therefore your snide
comments
fall into the 'inane' category.
--
John H
************

When an "expert" repsonds to a post about a technical matter, he or she
will be able to do so without making personal attacks and insults the
basis of his or her remarks.

What would you think if you hired a surveyor, and he showed up and
began the process with, "This boat has to be a piece of crap. I can
tell without looking at it. The reason I am so sure is that I know the
present owner, and he is the lowest form of life on the
planet............."?

An expert should be able to render an opinion in an adult and objective
manner.

Of course, if the only field in which one is really an expert is the
depth of their own disgust for other people then opinions expressed in
*that* field of expertise will indeed, read like a non-stop personal
attack.

In the instance of my comment, I believe Karen was responding to a post without
a verbal attack on anyone.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

I haven't used BUC for a while.

BUC pricing was typically on the high side if one began using the
factors for "better than average" or "bristol" condition. What seller
doesn't believe that his boat is better than average, maybe even
bristol? Without using the multipliers, the pricing seemed fairly
realistic.

BUC makes an effort to identify obvious regional price trends, and
trends pertaining to specific types of boats. That's a good thing.

IMO, BUC is more often the "seller's book". (Surveyors typically used
BUC book valuations when appraising boats for charitable donation, as
the final number "adjusted for condition" was usually somewhat above
market).

BUC at one time was the defacto price and multi-listing program from
brokerages. They finally got their pricing up to some ridiculous
per-minute charge for being on line and Yachtworld has effectively
assumed the position. (Only a few years ago, Yachtworld was still under
$200 per month for a broker's subscription). However, now that
Yachtworld is charging almost $500 a month for brokers who use the full
extent of the service there is a lot of room for somebody to come in
and do a better job cheaper.

I still believe the best source of current regional sales information
is the sold boat database available to brokers on Yachtworld. You have
to look at the numbers carefully----- some brokers just routinely
report that every boat they sold was at full asking price........yeah,
right. Need some oceanfront property in Oklahoma? :-) {The majority
of brokers do report accurate selling prices}

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:39:22 +1100, "K. Smith"
wrote:


Just like the brokers!!! so don't go near any of them. The brokers
don't even have a business, no investment, no capitol, nothing, they're
mostly failed used car salesmen & if you don't know what that means then
you deserve what you won't get.

As you said take the rego number go do a search of the title at say
your DMV or similar, then contact the real seller. You will find that
because the brokers are liars who will say anything to get a signed
listing the seller will be tied up for ages & the broker will be getting
his unearned commission regardless, so make sure "you" are not
introduced to the boat by the broker.

Help me out a little here K. Smith.

I understand from your post that it's not ok for brokers or sales
people to lie or cheat. That I agree with.

I also undersand from your post that it's ok if buyers and sellers
lie, cheat and deceive brokers and dealers. I may not agree, but you
are entitled to your opinion.

What you left out is very important. Is it ok for buyers to lie to
sellers? Is it ok for sellers to lie and cheat buyers? You seem to
be stating that it's ok for some people to lie and cheat some people
in some instances, but it's not ok for other people to lie and cheat
in other instances, so a little more clarification of when it's ok for
who to lie and cheat who, would be helpful to those of us who assumed
it wasn't ok for anyone to lie and cheat anyone at any time.

Thank you for clarifying the above.

bb

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:45:40 -0500, John H
wrote:

In the instance of my comment, I believe Karen was responding to a post without
a verbal attack on anyone.

Well then, you must know have read K. Smith's post. I can't say as I
blame you.

K. Smith's post stared out with an attack on Harry and anyone who is
any way associated with the marine industry.

"Without a verbal attack on anyone", please.

bb

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:11:28 GMT, bb wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:45:40 -0500, John H
wrote:

In the instance of my comment, I believe Karen was responding to a post without
a verbal attack on anyone.

Well then, you must know have read K. Smith's post. I can't say as I
blame you.

K. Smith's post stared out with an attack on Harry and anyone who is
any way associated with the marine industry.

"Without a verbal attack on anyone", please.

bb

I could be wrong. If so, then I'm wrong. I'm not energetic enough to look up the
exact post. I *think* this was one of her rare posts without a personal attack
of Krause.
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On 23 Mar 2005 07:59:13 -0800, wrote:

The book does not dictate a price, but it can be an effective tool
while
negotiating.


**********

Nonsense. You might as well rely on saying "My brother-in-law says
your boat is only worth XXXX.

Put yourself in the seller's shoes. When the seller listed the boat, it
is very probable that he did some research on the local market that
included sales trends and selling prices for boats similar to the one
he is selling. To put yourself in the seller's shoes, imagine you put
your house up for sale and, rather than throwing a dart at sheet of
numbers on the wall, you priced the boat at or just slightly above the
prevailing price trend in your area.

Let's say that after you had your house listed for a week, an offer for
half price is presented by the broker. When you say, "That's almost an
insult! What makes this guy think he can buy
my house for so much less than my neighbors are selling their houses
for?"....how quickly would you cave in when the broker replied, "The
buyer went on the internet, found some site
where a group of Automobile Dealers has expressed an opinion about the
value of your boat, and as far as he's concerned that's all its worth"?

We actually *do* agree on one thing. Knowing the actual, recent, local
price tendencies for a boat can be an effective negotiating tactic.
This information is available, (I described how to obtain it earlier in
the thread), and useful. Using some fairy tale number from a
discredited source won't cause an informed seller to give his boat away
at half price. Ain't gonna happen.

Now of course if it were a political debate instead of a boating
transaction, the guy with the phony numbers would just keep repeating
them over, and over, and over again until everybody else began
believing they might be true. :-)

So is it your opinion that guides such as NADA serve no real purpose?

Dave

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:59:35 -0500, John H
wrote:

I could be wrong. If so, then I'm wrong. I'm not energetic enough to look up the
exact post.

Well John, here's what she had to reply to Harry:

& the liar just can't help but lie:-)

Calling someone a liar in my book is a personal attack.

I *think* this was one of her rare posts without a personal attack
of Krause.

I see you come to the defense of K Smith the same as you do the
president, with no bases in fact. At least you're consistant.

bb

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:20:23 GMT, bb wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:59:35 -0500, John H
wrote:

I could be wrong. If so, then I'm wrong. I'm not energetic enough to look up the
exact post.

Well John, here's what she had to reply to Harry:

& the liar just can't help but lie:-)

Calling someone a liar in my book is a personal attack.

I *think* this was one of her rare posts without a personal attack
of Krause.

I see you come to the defense of K Smith the same as you do the
president, with no bases in fact. At least you're consistant.

bb


I stand corrected. Karen would do better to segregate her 'Harry is a liar'
posts from her on-topic posts.

As Harry's comment was 'inane', I have nothing to apologize for. However, I do
admit my error. (You can pass that on to Chuck also!)

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."