Jeff Rigby wrote:
At USF the smart people were on the HARD science side of the campus and the
Liberal arts side of the campus had the most muddle headed people.

And that's true on both sides of the fence.


... For
instance, my English literature professor was preaching communism in class.
In her class, those of us from the Hard science side of the campus were
telling her that communism wouldn't work as it went against too many
imperatives built into human beings to be a workable system.

Did you ever stop to think that you were the student, and the teacher
was the teacher? I see you began your career of big mouth & closed mind
early on.



It always irked me that there were different math and science courses
offered for hard science students and liberal arts students. They are called
the same but the liberal arts version is MUCH easier.

In all the college catalogs I am aware of, they are *not* given the same
designation. In fact, if the material is different then they must be
named & designated differently.


... Same number of credit
hour too but we would get zero credits for those courses for our majors. I
always found that courses offered on the liberal arts side of the campus
were very easy.


In some cases yes. OTOH I remember a fellow engineer who was furious
with an economics professor for giving him a GPA busting grade. The
student had a childish tantrum in front of the class, yelling (among
other things) that this was an easy class. However, this guy was in my
study group and he just plain didn't know the material... which might
not have been extremely difficult (300 level micro econ), but it
certainly wasn't See Spot Run.




You can't bull**** a computer, machine or building and have it work.

Yep, that's why it's really stupid & short sighted to continue to apply
political and religious litmus tests to political, military, & economic
problems.


... But
you can bull**** people especially if they are young or believe the same
bull****.


Which is why the Bush Administration has been able to hang on to it's
power & influence. It may finally be on the wane as people are figuring
out the hypocrisy & greed, but maybe not.

DSK

"Black Dog" wrote in message
...
No surprise there, the headline might just as well have read- "The
Smartest People in America are Liberals"

If they were smart, they'd be in the real world working for a living. I
believe that most choose to teach at the university level to appease a
feeling of intellectual insecurity. If it were purely about educating
today's young minds for tomorrow, they'd be teaching elementary school math
and english.

"HKrause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
College Faculties A Most Liberal Lot, Study Finds

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 29, 2005; Page C01


College faculties, long assumed to be a liberal bastion, lean further to
the left than even the most conspiratorial conservatives might have
imagined, a new study says.

By their own description, 72 percent of those teaching at American
universities and colleges are liberal and 15 percent are conservative,
says the study being published this week. The imbalance is almost as
striking in partisan terms, with 50 percent of the faculty members
surveyed identifying themselves as Democrats and 11 percent as
Republicans.

The disparity is even more pronounced at the most elite schools, where,
according to the study, 87 percent of faculty are liberal and 13 percent
are conservative.

"What's most striking is how few conservatives there are in any field,"
said Robert Lichter, a professor at George Mason University and a
co-author of the study. "There was no field we studied in which there
were more conservatives than liberals or more Republicans than Democrats.
It's a very homogenous environment, not just in the places you'd expect
to be dominated by liberals."

Religious services take a back seat for many faculty members, with 51
percent saying they rarely or never attend church or synagogue and 31
percent calling themselves regular churchgoers. On the gender front, 72
percent of the full-time faculty are male and 28 percent female.

The findings, by Lichter and fellow political science professors Stanley
Rothman of Smith College and Neil Nevitte of the University of Toronto,
are based on a survey of 1,643 full-time faculty at 183 four-year
schools. The researchers relied on 1999 data from the North American
Academic Study Survey, the most recent comprehensive data available.

The study appears in the March issue of the Forum, an online political
science journal. It was funded by the Randolph Foundation, a
right-leaning group that has given grants to such conservative
organizations as the Independent Women's Forum and Americans for Tax
Reform.

Rothman sees the findings as evidence of "possible discrimination"
against conservatives in hiring and promotion. Even after factoring in
levels of achievement, as measured by published work and organization
memberships, "the most likely conclusion" is that "being conservative
counts against you," he said. "It doesn't surprise me, because I've
observed it happening." The study, however, describes this finding as
"preliminary."

When asked about the findings, Jonathan Knight, director of academic
freedom and tenure for the American Association of University Professors,
said, "The question is how this translates into what happens within the
academic community on such issues as curriculum, admission of students,
evaluation of students, evaluation of faculty for salary and promotion."
Knight said he isn't aware of "any good evidence" that personal views are
having an impact on campus policies.

"It's hard to see that these liberal views cut very deeply into the
education of students. In fact, a number of studies show the core values
that students bring into the university are not very much altered by
being in college."

Rothman, Lichter and Nevitte find a leftward shift on campus over the
past two decades. In the last major survey of college faculty, by the
Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching in 1984, 39 percent
identified themselves as liberal.

In contrast with the finding that nearly three-quarters of college
faculty are liberal, a Harris Poll of the general public last year found
that 33 percent describe themselves as conservative and 18 percent as
liberal.

The liberal label that a majority of the faculty members attached to
themselves is reflected on a variety of issues. The professors and
instructors surveyed are, strongly or somewhat, in favor of abortion
rights (84 percent); believe homosexuality is acceptable (67 percent);
and want more environmental protection "even if it raises prices or costs
jobs" (88 percent). What's more, the study found, 65 percent want the
government to ensure full employment, a stance to the left of the
Democratic Party.

Recent campus controversies have reinforced the left-wing faculty image.
The University of Colorado is reviewing its tenure system after one
professor, Ward Churchill, created an uproar by likening World Trade
Center victims to Nazis. Harvard's faculty of arts and sciences voted no
confidence in the university's president, Lawrence Summers, after he
privately wondered whether women had the same natural ability as men in
science and math.

The study did not attempt to examine whether the political views of
faculty members affect the content of their courses.

The researchers say that liberals, men and non-regular churchgoers are
more likely to be teaching at top schools, while conservatives, women and
more religious faculty are more likely to be relegated to lower-tier
colleges and universities.

Top-tier schools, roughly a third of the total, are defined as highly
ranked liberal arts colleges and research universities that grant PhDs.

The most liberal faculties are those devoted to the humanities (81
percent) and social sciences (75 percent), according to the study. But
liberals outnumbered conservatives even among engineering faculty (51
percent to 19 percent) and business faculty (49 percent to 39 percent).

The most left-leaning departments are English literature, philosophy,
political science and religious studies, where at least 80 percent of the
faculty say they are liberal and no more than 5 percent call themselves
conservative, the study says.

"In general," says Lichter, who also heads the nonprofit Center for Media
and Public Affairs, "even broad-minded people gravitate toward other
people like themselves. That's why you need diversity, not just of race
and gender but also, maybe especially, of ideas and perspective."


Well, of course, smart people hang out with each other, and especially
enjoy the exchange of ideas. If you want to see conservatives exchanging
ideas, go to a NASCAR race.

I've been to one NASCAR race (Brickyard 400) in my life, but never my gaze
never left the infield. The only reason that I knew cars were running
around the track is because they're louder than hell each time they pass.

"Jeff Rigby" wrote in message
...

"HKrause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
College Faculties A Most Liberal Lot, Study Finds

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 29, 2005; Page C01


College faculties, long assumed to be a liberal bastion, lean further to
the left than even the most conspiratorial conservatives might have
imagined, a new study says.


The disparity is even more pronounced at the most elite schools, where,
according to the study, 87 percent of faculty are liberal and 13 percent
are conservative.


The most left-leaning departments are English literature, philosophy,
political science and religious studies, where at least 80 percent of
the faculty say they are liberal and no more than 5 percent call
themselves conservative, the study says.

Well, of course, smart people hang out with each other, and especially
enjoy the exchange of ideas. If you want to see conservatives exchanging
ideas, go to a NASCAR race.

At USF the smart people were on the HARD science side of the campus and
the Liberal arts side of the campus had the most muddle headed people. For
instance, my English literature professor was preaching communism in
class. In her class, those of us from the Hard science side of the campus
were telling her that communism wouldn't work as it went against too many
imperatives built into human beings to be a workable system. Remember this
was 1970 before the collapse of the communist governments.

It always irked me that there were different math and science courses
offered for hard science students and liberal arts students. They are
called the same but the liberal arts version is MUCH easier.

Good examples are physics, calculus, and especially anatomy. We had a
degree program at Purdue called Mechanical Engineering Technology. The
course names and descriptions were very similar to the ones that I took in
the bachelor of science in Mechanical Engineering program, but the actual
material and level of difficulty couldn't have been more different. Most of
their texts one the same ones I used in high school physics.



Same number of credit hour too but we would get zero credits for those
courses for our majors. I always found that courses offered on the liberal
arts side of the campus were very easy.

Me too.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jeff Rigby wrote:
At USF the smart people were on the HARD science side of the campus and
the Liberal arts side of the campus had the most muddle headed people.

And that's true on both sides of the fence.


... For instance, my English literature professor was preaching communism
in class. In her class, those of us from the Hard science side of the
campus were telling her that communism wouldn't work as it went against
too many imperatives built into human beings to be a workable system.

Did you ever stop to think that you were the student, and the teacher was
the teacher? I see you began your career of big mouth & closed mind early
on.

Actually I was kinda timid at that time and only offered a couple of
examples. We were very polite to the ENGLISH teacher only trying to correct
her thinking when she drifted off her JOB and into her pet philosiphies.
Most of us were afraid of being given a lower grade if we disagreed with
her too strenuously.


It always irked me that there were different math and science courses
offered for hard science students and liberal arts students. They are
called the same but the liberal arts version is MUCH easier.

In all the college catalogs I am aware of, they are *not* given the same
designation. In fact, if the material is different then they must be named
& designated differently.

Nope the name was the same but there was, If I remember correctly, a letter
difference in the designation. Like calculus 101 and 101E and Chemistry 101
and 101E.

... Same number of credit hour too but we would get zero credits for
those courses for our majors. I always found that courses offered on the
liberal arts side of the campus were very easy.


In some cases yes. OTOH I remember a fellow engineer who was furious with
an economics professor for giving him a GPA busting grade. The student had
a childish tantrum in front of the class, yelling (among other things)
that this was an easy class. However, this guy was in my study group and
he just plain didn't know the material... which might not have been
extremely difficult (300 level micro econ), but it certainly wasn't See
Spot Run.

You can't bull**** a computer, machine or building and have it work.

Yep, that's why it's really stupid & short sighted to continue to apply
political and religious litmus tests to political, military, & economic
problems.

That's true for both sides, but I tend to hear more of that type of behavior
from the left.
We know that the world is not a simple place with simple solutions.
Polititions on both sides try to polerize issues into simple (for the
public) to understand "sound bites". The problem is that the liberal
academics are teaching young people based on those sound bites.

The Issue with the English teacher and communisum is a perfect example. She
believed in the "perfect solution" offered by communisum, that all would be
fed and none would lack. The problem is in the implementation, they never
look at the big picture.

... But you can bull**** people especially if they are young or believe
the same bull****.

Which is why the Bush Administration has been able to hang on to it's
power & influence. It may finally be on the wane as people are figuring
out the hypocrisy & greed, but maybe not.

DSK

It is on it's way out. But only because it's hard and expensive being the
good guy. We will back out after the new guy is elected and force others to
shoulder their fair share and they will weasel out of it after giving lip
service and in a decade we will be back to square one again.

You can't bull**** a computer, machine or building and have it work.

Yep, that's why it's really stupid & short sighted to continue to apply
political and religious litmus tests to political, military, & economic
problems.


Jeff Rigby wrote:
That's true for both sides, but I tend to hear more of that type of behavior
from the left.

Probably because that's the only place you look for it.

We know that the world is not a simple place with simple solutions.
Polititions on both sides try to polerize issues into simple (for the
public) to understand "sound bites".

And the worst politicians demonize the opposing side, and play the
divide-and-conquer game. This is what's going on now.

...The problem is that the liberal
academics are teaching young people based on those sound bites.

Given the results of recent elections and polls, clearly it's not working.

DSK

This is why the left can't win an election!

Chris


There's some specious reasoning for you.

How so? The smart people are out earning the big bucks instead of being
holed up in a ivory tower.


"Black Dog" wrote in message
...
No surprise there, the headline might just as well have read- "The
Smartest People in America are Liberals"

heeheehee

Stella

NOYB wrote:
College Faculties A Most Liberal Lot, Study Finds

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 29, 2005; Page C01


College faculties, long assumed to be a liberal bastion, lean further to
the left than even the most conspiratorial conservatives might have
imagined, a new study says.

By their own description, 72 percent of those teaching at American
universities and colleges are liberal and 15 percent are conservative,
says the study being published this week. The imbalance is almost as
striking in partisan terms, with 50 percent of the faculty members
surveyed identifying themselves as Democrats and 11 percent as
Republicans.

The disparity is even more pronounced at the most elite schools, where,
according to the study, 87 percent of faculty are liberal and 13 percent
are conservative.

"What's most striking is how few conservatives there are in any field,"
said Robert Lichter, a professor at George Mason University and a
co-author of the study. "There was no field we studied in which there
were more conservatives than liberals or more Republicans than Democrats.
It's a very homogenous environment, not just in the places you'd expect
to be dominated by liberals."

Religious services take a back seat for many faculty members, with 51
percent saying they rarely or never attend church or synagogue and 31
percent calling themselves regular churchgoers. On the gender front, 72
percent of the full-time faculty are male and 28 percent female.

The findings, by Lichter and fellow political science professors Stanley
Rothman of Smith College and Neil Nevitte of the University of Toronto,
are based on a survey of 1,643 full-time faculty at 183 four-year
schools. The researchers relied on 1999 data from the North American
Academic Study Survey, the most recent comprehensive data available.

The study appears in the March issue of the Forum, an online political
science journal. It was funded by the Randolph Foundation, a
right-leaning group that has given grants to such conservative
organizations as the Independent Women's Forum and Americans for Tax
Reform.

Rothman sees the findings as evidence of "possible discrimination"
against conservatives in hiring and promotion. Even after factoring in
levels of achievement, as measured by published work and organization
memberships, "the most likely conclusion" is that "being conservative
counts against you," he said. "It doesn't surprise me, because I've
observed it happening." The study, however, describes this finding as
"preliminary."

When asked about the findings, Jonathan Knight, director of academic
freedom and tenure for the American Association of University Professors,
said, "The question is how this translates into what happens within the
academic community on such issues as curriculum, admission of students,
evaluation of students, evaluation of faculty for salary and promotion."
Knight said he isn't aware of "any good evidence" that personal views are
having an impact on campus policies.

"It's hard to see that these liberal views cut very deeply into the
education of students. In fact, a number of studies show the core values
that students bring into the university are not very much altered by
being in college."

Rothman, Lichter and Nevitte find a leftward shift on campus over the
past two decades. In the last major survey of college faculty, by the
Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching in 1984, 39 percent
identified themselves as liberal.

In contrast with the finding that nearly three-quarters of college
faculty are liberal, a Harris Poll of the general public last year found
that 33 percent describe themselves as conservative and 18 percent as
liberal.

The liberal label that a majority of the faculty members attached to
themselves is reflected on a variety of issues. The professors and
instructors surveyed are, strongly or somewhat, in favor of abortion
rights (84 percent); believe homosexuality is acceptable (67 percent);
and want more environmental protection "even if it raises prices or costs
jobs" (88 percent). What's more, the study found, 65 percent want the
government to ensure full employment, a stance to the left of the
Democratic Party.

Recent campus controversies have reinforced the left-wing faculty image.
The University of Colorado is reviewing its tenure system after one
professor, Ward Churchill, created an uproar by likening World Trade
Center victims to Nazis. Harvard's faculty of arts and sciences voted no
confidence in the university's president, Lawrence Summers, after he
privately wondered whether women had the same natural ability as men in
science and math.

The study did not attempt to examine whether the political views of
faculty members affect the content of their courses.

The researchers say that liberals, men and non-regular churchgoers are
more likely to be teaching at top schools, while conservatives, women and
more religious faculty are more likely to be relegated to lower-tier
colleges and universities.

Top-tier schools, roughly a third of the total, are defined as highly
ranked liberal arts colleges and research universities that grant PhDs.

The most liberal faculties are those devoted to the humanities (81
percent) and social sciences (75 percent), according to the study. But
liberals outnumbered conservatives even among engineering faculty (51
percent to 19 percent) and business faculty (49 percent to 39 percent).

The most left-leaning departments are English literature, philosophy,
political science and religious studies, where at least 80 percent of the
faculty say they are liberal and no more than 5 percent call themselves
conservative, the study says.

"In general," says Lichter, who also heads the nonprofit Center for Media
and Public Affairs, "even broad-minded people gravitate toward other
people like themselves. That's why you need diversity, not just of race
and gender but also, maybe especially, of ideas and perspective."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hated most of my college professors. I guess that's why I ended up as
a conservative. ;-)

"HKrause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
College Faculties A Most Liberal Lot, Study Finds

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 29, 2005; Page C01


Well, of course, smart people hang out with each other, and especially
enjoy the exchange of ideas. If you want to see conservatives exchanging
ideas, go to a NASCAR race.

I'll bet you find more millionaires attending NASCAR races than liberal or
progressive speeches.

""""'Isn't that wonderful. Who gives a crap about millionaires? You? Not
me.""'"""


hmmmm,, then why you portrait yourself to be such a millionaire there
krause??? I mean you claim to own all this land and all these boats and
businesses,, your buddy carter claimed to be a millionaire and although even
retired still has 6 figure income yet he has to sell his boat again this
year. lol,,,

you fools keep claiming you are millionaires or belong to the millionaire
club then you say who gives a crap about millionaires,,, lol,,,,gees,,, you
puppets and master are more confused than a termite in yo-yo











"HaKrause" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 20:27:54 -0500, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:


"HKrause" wrote in message
...

NOYB wrote:

College Faculties A Most Liberal Lot, Study Finds

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 29, 2005; Page C01


Well, of course, smart people hang out with each other, and especially
enjoy the exchange of ideas. If you want to see conservatives exchanging
ideas, go to a NASCAR race.

I'll bet you find more millionaires attending NASCAR races than liberal
or progressive speeches.



Isn't that wonderful. Who gives a crap about millionaires? You? Not me.