The latest issue of Chesapeake Bay magazine shows the subject trawler,
a 2004, for $179000 (actually $149000, but that's an error). On the
preceding page is a 1990 Grand Banks 36' Classic, for $229000. Both
have single diesel engines, the GB has a 210 hp Caterpillar, and the
Mariner has a 165 Perkins, upgradeable to a 220 Cummins for another
$6000.

Now, why such a big difference in the cost of these boats? How much
would a new Grand Banks cost, and is it worth the difference?

Chuck, you may have to come out of hiding!

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:08:09 -0500, John H
wrote:
The latest issue of Chesapeake Bay magazine shows the subject trawler,
a 2004, for $179000 (actually $149000, but that's an error). On the
preceding page is a 1990 Grand Banks 36' Classic, for $229000. Both
have single diesel engines, the GB has a 210 hp Caterpillar, and the
Mariner has a 165 Perkins, upgradeable to a 220 Cummins for another
$6000.

Now, why such a big difference in the cost of these boats? How much
would a new Grand Banks cost, and is it worth the difference?

Chuck, you may have to come out of hiding!
=========================================

John, I suspect you could probably reach Chuck via EMAIL if you really
need to.

My 2 cents worth on the subject is that GBs command a hefty premium to
other trawlers because of their higher percieved quality, and a
supply/demand imbalance. Good older GBs rarely stay on the market
very long because there seem to be a lot of people looking for them.

Whether or not the quality perception is real, and to what extent, I
can not comment. It's become clear to me however from reading some of
the online newsletters, and talking to people dockside, that many of
the low end trawlers have required extensive maintenance and upgrades
over the years. Fuel tanks and electrical systems seem to be two of
the biggest problem areas with older boats built in the far east.

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:29:07 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:08:09 -0500, John H
wrote:
The latest issue of Chesapeake Bay magazine shows the subject trawler,
a 2004, for $179000 (actually $149000, but that's an error). On the
preceding page is a 1990 Grand Banks 36' Classic, for $229000. Both
have single diesel engines, the GB has a 210 hp Caterpillar, and the
Mariner has a 165 Perkins, upgradeable to a 220 Cummins for another
$6000.

Now, why such a big difference in the cost of these boats? How much
would a new Grand Banks cost, and is it worth the difference?

Chuck, you may have to come out of hiding!
=========================================

John, I suspect you could probably reach Chuck via EMAIL if you really
need to.

My 2 cents worth on the subject is that GBs command a hefty premium to
other trawlers because of their higher percieved quality, and a
supply/demand imbalance. Good older GBs rarely stay on the market
very long because there seem to be a lot of people looking for them.

Whether or not the quality perception is real, and to what extent, I
can not comment. It's become clear to me however from reading some of
the online newsletters, and talking to people dockside, that many of
the low end trawlers have required extensive maintenance and upgrades
over the years. Fuel tanks and electrical systems seem to be two of
the biggest problem areas with older boats built in the far east.

Good to know. Thanks for the response. The dealer I talked to said the
GB's just had a better finish, more teak, etc. Didn't sound right to
me.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:29:07 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

Fuel tanks and electrical systems seem to be two of
the biggest problem areas with older boats built in the far east.

Here in the hot and wet south east, I'd have to say poor bedding and
the resulting leakage and rot problems are one of the biggest problems
with older far east boats. Also, overuse of teak has resulted in many
problems from worn out decks to hatches and windows that have to be
sealed every other weekend. Old fuel tanks are a problem no matter
where the boat was built.

bb

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:50:33 GMT, bb wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:29:07 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

Fuel tanks and electrical systems seem to be two of
the biggest problem areas with older boats built in the far east.

Here in the hot and wet south east, I'd have to say poor bedding and
the resulting leakage and rot problems are one of the biggest problems
with older far east boats. Also, overuse of teak has resulted in many
problems from worn out decks to hatches and windows that have to be
sealed every other weekend. Old fuel tanks are a problem no matter
where the boat was built.
=====================================

Those are all good points. I think it's a fact however that many of
the "far east" boats were built with black iron tanks which are way
down there on the longevity scale.

Is Marine Trader building and selling trawlers these days?

In the late seventies a broker in Annapolis was selling the boats. They were
almost affordable and I had a hair up somewhere and wanted to try living
aboard. Part of it was the very high cost of housing in Washington, DC where I
was then stationed.

After considerable thought I decided the 44 double cabin would accomodate all
my space requirements.

Then I boarded one and had a good look. First I checked out the layout and
interior accomodations. Pretty good human engineering and decent joiner work
in the cabin area. Then it was into the bilge area to check the engine
arrangement, etc. Poor quality abounded. All the through hull fittings were
cheapo faucets. There was no strainer. Single bilge pump of questionable
capacity poorly mounted and plumbed. Cleats were through bolted but without
backing plates. Wiring was house quality. No duplex fuel filters... the
on-engine primary and secondary was it. Don't remember the fuel tank
construction but surely it was mild steel. My estimate, in 1978 dollars at a
decent yard, at least $10K to set it right and probably more.

Teak overlaid decks and solid teak rails above. Simply beautiful and looked
like decent work. Loved the flying bridge, also all teak. Nice pulpit. But,
after my visit to the basement how could I believe the deck had been properly
bedded and mounted. Besides, all that maintenance of all that teak.

Still, at a base price of around $125K it was a lot of boat. OTOH it was not a
boat for me. Is there such a thing as a good cheap boat? Probably, depending
upon how one defines good and cheap.... I just have not yet seen one.

Butch

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:50:33 GMT, bb wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:29:07 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

Fuel tanks and electrical systems seem to be two of
the biggest problem areas with older boats built in the far east.

Here in the hot and wet south east, I'd have to say poor bedding and
the resulting leakage and rot problems are one of the biggest problems
with older far east boats. Also, overuse of teak has resulted in many
problems from worn out decks to hatches and windows that have to be
sealed every other weekend. Old fuel tanks are a problem no matter
where the boat was built.
=====================================

Those are all good points. I think it's a fact however that many of
the "far east" boats were built with black iron tanks which are way
down there on the longevity scale.

On 31 Jan 2004 15:26:41 GMT, (JDavis1277) wrote:

Is Marine Trader building and selling trawlers these days?

In the late seventies a broker in Annapolis was selling the boats. They were
almost affordable and I had a hair up somewhere and wanted to try living
aboard. Part of it was the very high cost of housing in Washington, DC where I
was then stationed.

After considerable thought I decided the 44 double cabin would accomodate all
my space requirements.

Then I boarded one and had a good look. First I checked out the layout and
interior accomodations. Pretty good human engineering and decent joiner work
in the cabin area. Then it was into the bilge area to check the engine
arrangement, etc. Poor quality abounded. All the through hull fittings were
cheapo faucets. There was no strainer. Single bilge pump of questionable
capacity poorly mounted and plumbed. Cleats were through bolted but without
backing plates. Wiring was house quality. No duplex fuel filters... the
on-engine primary and secondary was it. Don't remember the fuel tank
construction but surely it was mild steel. My estimate, in 1978 dollars at a
decent yard, at least $10K to set it right and probably more.

Teak overlaid decks and solid teak rails above. Simply beautiful and looked
like decent work. Loved the flying bridge, also all teak. Nice pulpit. But,
after my visit to the basement how could I believe the deck had been properly
bedded and mounted. Besides, all that maintenance of all that teak.

Still, at a base price of around $125K it was a lot of boat. OTOH it was not a
boat for me. Is there such a thing as a good cheap boat? Probably, depending
upon how one defines good and cheap.... I just have not yet seen one.

Butch

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 00:50:33 GMT, bb wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:29:07 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

Fuel tanks and electrical systems seem to be two of
the biggest problem areas with older boats built in the far east.

Here in the hot and wet south east, I'd have to say poor bedding and
the resulting leakage and rot problems are one of the biggest problems
with older far east boats. Also, overuse of teak has resulted in many
problems from worn out decks to hatches and windows that have to be
sealed every other weekend. Old fuel tanks are a problem no matter
where the boat was built.
=====================================

Those are all good points. I think it's a fact however that many of
the "far east" boats were built with black iron tanks which are way
down there on the longevity scale.

Thanks Butch - gives me a lot of food for thought if and when I go
look at one of these 'second homes'.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

John H wrote:
The latest issue of Chesapeake Bay magazine shows the subject trawler,
a 2004, for $179000 (actually $149000, but that's an error). On the
preceding page is a 1990 Grand Banks 36' Classic, for $229000. Both
have single diesel engines, the GB has a 210 hp Caterpillar, and the
Mariner has a 165 Perkins, upgradeable to a 220 Cummins for another
$6000.

Now, why such a big difference in the cost of these boats? How much
would a new Grand Banks cost, and is it worth the difference?

IMHO, no. We looked a dozen or so Grand Banks trawlers from the mid
1970s on up to early 1990s, and to my close inspection they revealed no
consistent superiority (other than slightly fancier joinerwork) to most
other Taiwan built trawlers. It's all in the reputation, built up (again
IMHO) by pervasive advertising.

There are some trawlers that are worse than others, but unlike sailboats
there does not seem to be a few standout "brands" such as sailboats have
in Swan, Hallberg-Rassy, Morris, Oyster. There are some highly touted
boats, but if you look at the nuts & bolts they are OK but not great...
given the prices, I found it very disappointing.

John, if you get serious about shopping for trawlers, give me a shout. I
still have a thick folder of notes.

Fair Skies
Doug King

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 09:24:17 -0500, DSK wrote:

John H wrote:
The latest issue of Chesapeake Bay magazine shows the subject trawler,
a 2004, for $179000 (actually $149000, but that's an error). On the
preceding page is a 1990 Grand Banks 36' Classic, for $229000. Both
have single diesel engines, the GB has a 210 hp Caterpillar, and the
Mariner has a 165 Perkins, upgradeable to a 220 Cummins for another
$6000.

Now, why such a big difference in the cost of these boats? How much
would a new Grand Banks cost, and is it worth the difference?

IMHO, no. We looked a dozen or so Grand Banks trawlers from the mid
1970s on up to early 1990s, and to my close inspection they revealed no
consistent superiority (other than slightly fancier joinerwork) to most
other Taiwan built trawlers. It's all in the reputation, built up (again
IMHO) by pervasive advertising.

There are some trawlers that are worse than others, but unlike sailboats
there does not seem to be a few standout "brands" such as sailboats have
in Swan, Hallberg-Rassy, Morris, Oyster. There are some highly touted
boats, but if you look at the nuts & bolts they are OK but not great...
given the prices, I found it very disappointing.

John, if you get serious about shopping for trawlers, give me a shout. I
still have a thick folder of notes.

Fair Skies
Doug King
Thanks Doug, I'll do that!

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!