Well just as I thought it was all coming together.... Should've known
better.

Here's what I have.
360 Chrysler Motor (early 70's) rebuilt in 1993 - FWC.
Owens "Hydrallic Reverse Gear" Transmission.

What I know:
The motor runs good, but does have a vaccuum leak, I am guessing right
now based on some quick digging that it is either the carb plate (nice wood
version. ) or from the intake gasket(s). No contamination of any fluids
in the motor from water or each other.

I have just replaced the tranny cooler with a larger unit and changed it
from the FWC side to before the motor on the raw water side. I did this
(chagned the cooler) cause the tranny fluid looked milky and not clear and
the cooler seemed to be leaking a little. I changed it to the RW side cause
it made more sense and that's the way I see most other boats.

So now my issue:

The tranny when I put it in reverse is bogging down the engine and
causing it to stall. Additionally, we have milky looking fluid again after
just changing it and running it for about 1 hour and sitting for 5 days.
Just changed the fluid again cause we found a vent on the tranny that could
have been taking in water (we have had some pretty heavy rains etc and the
vent was right in line with a leak in the deck).

Ideas?
I know the vaccuum leak is causing me to maintain a higher idle then I
like (1000 RPM vs 750/800), and it may be bad enough to cause the motor to
bog but not sure if this would be the issue for when I switch into gear.

Any ideas or has anyone even heard of this transmission? I believe it is
the original from the boat which was built in 1969, it was supposedly
rebuilt within the last year or two before I got the boat.

Sorry for being so long winded, but I would appreciate any ideas before I
start tearing out everything and rebuilding everything mechanical.

Thanks,
Mark.

Just an update. The Transmission appears to be made by Paragon, the model
is OW-2-R, if that helps anyone.

Thanks again!
Mark.

"Mark Davis" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Well just as I thought it was all coming together.... Should've known
better.

Here's what I have.
360 Chrysler Motor (early 70's) rebuilt in 1993 - FWC.
Owens "Hydrallic Reverse Gear" Transmission.

What I know:
The motor runs good, but does have a vaccuum leak, I am guessing right
now based on some quick digging that it is either the carb plate (nice
wood
version. ) or from the intake gasket(s). No contamination of any
fluids
in the motor from water or each other.

I have just replaced the tranny cooler with a larger unit and changed
it
from the FWC side to before the motor on the raw water side. I did this
(chagned the cooler) cause the tranny fluid looked milky and not clear and
the cooler seemed to be leaking a little. I changed it to the RW side
cause
it made more sense and that's the way I see most other boats.

So now my issue:

The tranny when I put it in reverse is bogging down the engine and
causing it to stall. Additionally, we have milky looking fluid again
after
just changing it and running it for about 1 hour and sitting for 5 days.
Just changed the fluid again cause we found a vent on the tranny that
could
have been taking in water (we have had some pretty heavy rains etc and the
vent was right in line with a leak in the deck).

Ideas?
I know the vaccuum leak is causing me to maintain a higher idle then I
like (1000 RPM vs 750/800), and it may be bad enough to cause the motor to
bog but not sure if this would be the issue for when I switch into gear.

Any ideas or has anyone even heard of this transmission? I believe it
is
the original from the boat which was built in 1969, it was supposedly
rebuilt within the last year or two before I got the boat.

Sorry for being so long winded, but I would appreciate any ideas before I
start tearing out everything and rebuilding everything mechanical.

Thanks,
Mark.

snip
What I know:
The motor runs good, but does have a vaccuum leak, I am guessing right
now based on some quick digging that it is either the carb plate (nice
wood
version. ) or from the intake gasket(s). No contamination of any
fluids
in the motor from water or each other.
snip
I have had some success finding these leaks by spraying WD40 around the
suspect areas.
When you hit the leak you will get a decided RPM shift.

For the nervous Nellie's of the group ...
Naturally, WD40 is flammable, so the usual precautions regarding spraying on
hot manifolds apply.
Have an extinguisher handy - you do all the time anyway, right?

Mark Browne

"Mark Davis" wrote in message
news:bkBVb.16979

Here's what I have.
360 Chrysler Motor (early 70's) rebuilt in 1993 - FWC.
Owens "Hydrallic Reverse Gear" Transmission.

Inboard????


What I know:
The motor runs good, but does have a vaccuum leak, I am guessing right
now based on some quick digging that it is either the carb plate (nice
wood
version.

The carburerator plate is made of wood???

Here is a trick that I was taught many years ago when looking for vacuum
leaks: Take an oil can and squirt some oil around the seams of any gaskets.
Watch the oil if you can, and pay attention to the tone of the engine. If
the leak is big, you will see (and possibly hear) the oil get sucked in.
The oil will also provide a momentary seal to the leak, which should be
noticable in the tone of the engine.

The down side of this trick is that you end up with oil all over the place,
so be prepared to clean up a mess.


I have just replaced the tranny cooler with a larger unit and changed
it
from the FWC side to before the motor on the raw water side.

I have seen it both ways. There are two advantages of having it on the FWC
side: 1) the tranny cooler doesn't suffer as much corrosion, and 2) the
thermostat on the engine will help regulate a temperature on the
transmission. (It is better to have the oil at a minumum temperature).


The tranny when I put it in reverse is bogging down the engine and
causing it to stall.

Only in reverse gear, or is forward the same?

If it only happens in reverse, then I would say that the reverse gear
assembly has some serious issues. I don't know anything about your
transmission, but in a Velvet Drive transmission there are a lot more parts
moving in reverse than there are going foward. If the bearings on the
countershaft or other parts are bad then you could have a serious problem
fairly soon. Water contamination and bad bearings kind of goes together....



Additionally, we have milky looking fluid again after
just changing it and running it for about 1 hour and sitting for 5 days.

Which order was that in; did it run for an hour, then sit for 5 days, or
vice-versa? Did you check it right after the hour of use?

If the previous cooler had been leaking water into the transmission, then it
is possible that you didn't get all the water out when you changed the oil.
If that was the case, then it should have been apparent after the hour's
use. If the water got into the transmission AFTER the hour run time, and it
hadn't been run again, then I would not expect the oil to be milky, it would
be two layers: oil and water. It is the churning and pumping of oil and
water that creates the milky froth.


Just changed the fluid again cause we found a vent on the tranny that
could
have been taking in water (we have had some pretty heavy rains etc and the
vent was right in line with a leak in the deck).

I find it hard to believe that water could drip off a deck and manage to get
enough to find its way into a vent to cause a problem. On the other hand,
if the water level in the bilge is allowed to come up to the level of the
input shaft it probably would leak a significant amount of water in. It is
common for rotating shafts with oil seals to have a "thread" that is
intended to screw any oil at the seal back into the case. If there was
water on the outside, it will just pump this into the case.

Rod

A few answers/clarifications.

Yes this is an Inboard.

And yes the Carb plate is made of wood (which is sitting on the intake).
This is a common practice to reduce heat but usually with an aluminum or
plastic block, not wood.

As for finding the leak, I am using a combo of two ideas, and one that has
been successful for me. Engines don't like soapy water, but it is also
harmless in small quantities, so I spray small amounts of soapy water which
as you guess does the same thing as oil (but it won't seal as big of leaks).
It also bogs the motor momentarily to let you know it got in. Much easier
to clean up too...

As for the order of what happened, I changed the oil let it sit overnight
and then ran the motor for about an hour the next day, then let it sit for
about 4 more days (work sucks!); then I checked the fluid and it was a
red-chocolate color instead of a bright pink.

The previous cooler had some pitting on the inside and I believe but can not
be 100% sure it was leaking some water into the fluid. And I do believe you
are right and that I didn't get all the fluid out on the first change, after
doing it again with some more help it seems I missed some.

Actually, I have a very strange situation when it comes to my theory about
water from the deck. The deck actually leaks onto a heat exchanger hose
which passes right over the vent of the tranny, which when water runs off
the hose it drips right into the vent. Now I am skeptical as to the amount
of water that could possibly leak in that way myself, which is why I was
looking for feedback. In general, the bilge water never touches the shaft
seal on the tranny, so I can't imagine it sucking in water that way (but it
makes sense what you are saying.)

I appreciate the feedback, this has me wondering if a rebuild of the tranny
is necessary. Is there anywhere else it could get water from? like a leak
in the engine block (i.e. cracked block?) I know automotive mechanics
fairly well, but the marine tranny is new to me all together.

Thanks again!
Mark.



"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Mark Davis" wrote in message
news:bkBVb.16979

Here's what I have.
360 Chrysler Motor (early 70's) rebuilt in 1993 - FWC.
Owens "Hydrallic Reverse Gear" Transmission.

Inboard????


What I know:
The motor runs good, but does have a vaccuum leak, I am guessing
right
now based on some quick digging that it is either the carb plate (nice
wood
version.

The carburerator plate is made of wood???

Here is a trick that I was taught many years ago when looking for vacuum
leaks: Take an oil can and squirt some oil around the seams of any
gaskets.
Watch the oil if you can, and pay attention to the tone of the engine. If
the leak is big, you will see (and possibly hear) the oil get sucked in.
The oil will also provide a momentary seal to the leak, which should be
noticable in the tone of the engine.

The down side of this trick is that you end up with oil all over the
place,
so be prepared to clean up a mess.


I have just replaced the tranny cooler with a larger unit and changed
it
from the FWC side to before the motor on the raw water side.

I have seen it both ways. There are two advantages of having it on the FWC
side: 1) the tranny cooler doesn't suffer as much corrosion, and 2) the
thermostat on the engine will help regulate a temperature on the
transmission. (It is better to have the oil at a minumum temperature).


The tranny when I put it in reverse is bogging down the engine and
causing it to stall.

Only in reverse gear, or is forward the same?

If it only happens in reverse, then I would say that the reverse gear
assembly has some serious issues. I don't know anything about your
transmission, but in a Velvet Drive transmission there are a lot more
parts
moving in reverse than there are going foward. If the bearings on the
countershaft or other parts are bad then you could have a serious problem
fairly soon. Water contamination and bad bearings kind of goes
together....



Additionally, we have milky looking fluid again after
just changing it and running it for about 1 hour and sitting for 5 days.

Which order was that in; did it run for an hour, then sit for 5 days, or
vice-versa? Did you check it right after the hour of use?

If the previous cooler had been leaking water into the transmission, then
it
is possible that you didn't get all the water out when you changed the
oil.
If that was the case, then it should have been apparent after the hour's
use. If the water got into the transmission AFTER the hour run time, and
it
hadn't been run again, then I would not expect the oil to be milky, it
would
be two layers: oil and water. It is the churning and pumping of oil and
water that creates the milky froth.


Just changed the fluid again cause we found a vent on the tranny that
could
have been taking in water (we have had some pretty heavy rains etc and
the
vent was right in line with a leak in the deck).

I find it hard to believe that water could drip off a deck and manage to
get
enough to find its way into a vent to cause a problem. On the other hand,
if the water level in the bilge is allowed to come up to the level of the
input shaft it probably would leak a significant amount of water in. It
is
common for rotating shafts with oil seals to have a "thread" that is
intended to screw any oil at the seal back into the case. If there was
water on the outside, it will just pump this into the case.

Rod