I had some interesting discussions here a year or two ago about using spring
lines with power, and I have perhaps the same dilemma as then, but at a more
advanced stage of resolution now.

I don't have time to make or post a diagram, so bear with me.

I'm in a very tight slip. I can fit in with fenders down on both sides, but
barely. The bow is tied up to pilings, and I back in and tie the stern up to
a wall. There's a humble photo at www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26/C-T002.JPG (not my
present slip, but similar). I have a finger dock about half the length of
the boat on the starboard side, and another boat tied up to port, close
enough that I can reach out and touch it.

The prevailing wind blows from the SW, and that means over the starboard
quarter. So, as soon as I untie, I drift down towards the boat to port. Then
I have to make a sharp turn to starboard upon leaving my slip - the width
across to the next dock is perhaps only about 30-35 feet, so it's tight. I
can't start the turn until almost beyond the pilings, or I crang the boat to
port with my port quarter - and start to occupy too much width between the
piles. I have a single IB, which fortunately(!?) pulls to port quite
strongly in reverse. The whole maneuver is not much of a problem until the
winds are in the 20 knot range, which happily is the exception here, but I
still want to go boating, and once out of the marina the boat handles the
local waters under those conditions with aplomb.

I often single-hand - which is where the "power spring" technique requires
thorough advance organization. With crew, this goes very smoothly, with
someone handling a bow line or even an amidships line, and we warp
effortlessly around the starboard piling, casting off and pulling in the
line when adequately yawed to starboard; engage transmission, rudder to
starboard, open throttle a bit - no problem!

Without crew, however, it gets a bit more sticky ... I did it once last year
and managed fine, leading the line circuitously back to the cockpit, and
then pulling it in with another line looped around it - a variation of a
technique described on rec.boats before. It left a bit of a mess of line to
coil and hang, once out of the harbour, which is a nuisance when trying to
pilot the boat safely in "heavy" conditions - but doable. My big fear is
having that long spring line out of control, in the water, around the prop
shaft...

So, trying to keep it as simple as possible, does anyone think the following
will or will not work:

I will start with a loop around the boat's bow cleat. That line will lead
around the starboard piling, then around the boat's amidships cleat, and
from there aft to the boat's starboard quarter cleat (from where I can
control it while manning the helm). So far, so good. As the boat moves
forward, I'll have to pay out more line, snubbing it when the transom has
cleared the pilings, causing the bow to swing around the piling. The "pivot
point" will be somewhere between the bow cleat and the amidships cleat,
which works well.

But how to get that line back aboard? It's a busy time for the helmsman,
steering and throttling authoritatively out of a tight spot. It would be
nice just to be able to flip the long spring line over the top of the
piling, bit I can't, because i) it's too far forward and ii) it's too far
away (with the wind and the vectors not allowing me to hold the boat tightly
into the piling). So I have to pull it in by brute force, hand over hand,
but without someone on the bow, how to get at the standing part to do that?

What if I just had the line retrace its path, so that I'm working with a
loop? The course of the line would now be: from the bow cleat, around the
piling, around the amidships cleat, aft to the stern cleat, forward to the
amidships cleat, around the piling, and from there back to the cockpit -
from where, once ready to cast off (and having released the loop of line
around the stern cleat), I could probably get it in quite quickly and
smartly. If nothing snagged...

See? Nothing to it! (I'll let you know.) Any objections or better ideas?
Thanks.

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com/BDPhoto.html - Photo Contest
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:15:09 -0500, "Charles T. Low"
wrote:

~~ snippity do da ~~


See? Nothing to it! (I'll let you know.) Any objections or better ideas?
Thanks.

I had to draw that description out because I was having trouble
visualising the process, but if I understand what you are attempting,
and I think I do, then it should work fine.

The only way to really know is to try it. :)

However, have you given consideration to just pulling in bow first?
It would seem, per your description, that backing out of the slip,
considering the prevailing winds, would be easier. Unless, of course,
you can't get in/out of the boat that way.

Good luck.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

"Fisherman are born honest, but they get
over it." - Ed Zern

Charles T. Low wrote:
I had some interesting discussions here a year or two ago about using spring
lines with power, and I have perhaps the same dilemma as then, but at a more
advanced stage of resolution now.

I don't have time to make or post a diagram, so bear with me.

I'm in a very tight slip. I can fit in with fenders down on both sides, but
barely. The bow is tied up to pilings, and I back in and tie the stern up to
a wall. There's a humble photo at www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26/C-T002.JPG (not my
present slip, but similar). I have a finger dock about half the length of
the boat on the starboard side, and another boat tied up to port, close
enough that I can reach out and touch it.

The prevailing wind blows from the SW, and that means over the starboard
quarter. So, as soon as I untie, I drift down towards the boat to port. Then
I have to make a sharp turn to starboard upon leaving my slip - the width
across to the next dock is perhaps only about 30-35 feet, so it's tight. I
can't start the turn until almost beyond the pilings, or I crang the boat to
port with my port quarter - and start to occupy too much width between the
piles. I have a single IB, which fortunately(!?) pulls to port quite
strongly in reverse. The whole maneuver is not much of a problem until the
winds are in the 20 knot range, which happily is the exception here, but I
still want to go boating, and once out of the marina the boat handles the
local waters under those conditions with aplomb.

I often single-hand - which is where the "power spring" technique requires
thorough advance organization. With crew, this goes very smoothly, with
someone handling a bow line or even an amidships line, and we warp
effortlessly around the starboard piling, casting off and pulling in the
line when adequately yawed to starboard; engage transmission, rudder to
starboard, open throttle a bit - no problem!

Without crew, however, it gets a bit more sticky ... I did it once last year
and managed fine, leading the line circuitously back to the cockpit, and
then pulling it in with another line looped around it - a variation of a
technique described on rec.boats before. It left a bit of a mess of line to
coil and hang, once out of the harbour, which is a nuisance when trying to
pilot the boat safely in "heavy" conditions - but doable. My big fear is
having that long spring line out of control, in the water, around the prop
shaft...

So, trying to keep it as simple as possible, does anyone think the following
will or will not work:

I will start with a loop around the boat's bow cleat. That line will lead
around the starboard piling, then around the boat's amidships cleat, and
from there aft to the boat's starboard quarter cleat (from where I can
control it while manning the helm). So far, so good. As the boat moves
forward, I'll have to pay out more line, snubbing it when the transom has
cleared the pilings, causing the bow to swing around the piling. The "pivot
point" will be somewhere between the bow cleat and the amidships cleat,
which works well.

But how to get that line back aboard? It's a busy time for the helmsman,
steering and throttling authoritatively out of a tight spot. It would be
nice just to be able to flip the long spring line over the top of the
piling, bit I can't, because i) it's too far forward and ii) it's too far
away (with the wind and the vectors not allowing me to hold the boat tightly
into the piling). So I have to pull it in by brute force, hand over hand,
but without someone on the bow, how to get at the standing part to do that?

What if I just had the line retrace its path, so that I'm working with a
loop? The course of the line would now be: from the bow cleat, around the
piling, around the amidships cleat, aft to the stern cleat, forward to the
amidships cleat, around the piling, and from there back to the cockpit -
from where, once ready to cast off (and having released the loop of line
around the stern cleat), I could probably get it in quite quickly and
smartly. If nothing snagged...

See? Nothing to it! (I'll let you know.) Any objections or better ideas?
Thanks.

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com/BDPhoto.html - Photo Contest
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====



Not an objection as such, but you might also give thought to just having
a bowline loop around this spring on a line led back to where ever
it's convenient for you to get at, so;

(i) The loop is up at the bow cleat,

(ii) This looped line doesn't go outboard at all but straight back to
where ever you are, possibly even down the port side deck?? (Steering
station is port?? can't see too well but appears so in the pic)

(ii) Once you cast off the spring from the stern quarter you can then
retrieve it but pulling on the extra looped line.

That way the spring will be returning via it's original route, but you
won't have two lines nor a potentially catchy loop outside the boat,
also the spring should finish up back inboard with you.


K

On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:15:09 +0000, Charles T. Low wrote:

I had some interesting discussions here a year or two ago about using spring
lines with power, and I have perhaps the same dilemma as then, but at a more
advanced stage of resolution now.


I THINK I understand what you're attempting to do, but forgive me if I misread.

How about starting the "loop" at the stern cleat? Then up around the midships
cleat, around the bow cleat, and back to the stern? Then, when it's ready to go,
you can release it and get it all back in the cockpit without running up to the
bow...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

Why not, skip the bow cleat? Start and end at the stern cleat and use
the midships cleat as a "fairlead".
G I can see a number of possible problems and solutions, the best one
will be which you become most comfortable with.

otn

SWS,

Thanks. Bow in with that short finger-dock would be difficult in terms of
getting on/off, esp. with gear. Doable. All the sailboaters do it! I do
advocate abandoning a stern-to docking in heavy weather, but 95% of the
time, stern-to is much more pleasant, and it's hard to predict the winds
several days hence, which may be when I want to or am able to go out again.

So, that's a no. Good idea, though.

Sorry about the no diagram - that would take me an hour or something which I
do not have just now. Or do I? I could just draw it and scan it - we'll see.

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com/BDPhoto.html - Photo Contest
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

I had to draw that description out because I was having trouble
visualising the process, but if I understand what you are attempting,
and I think I do, then it should work fine.

The only way to really know is to try it. :)

However, have you given consideration to just pulling in bow first?
It would seem, per your description, that backing out of the slip,
considering the prevailing winds, would be easier. Unless, of course,
you can't get in/out of the boat that way.

Good luck.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

"Fisherman are born honest, but they get
over it." - Ed Zern

Karen, you must be wondering if I don't remember your description of that
last year, but I do, and that's what I did last summer, in fact. Worked like
a charm. I'm just seeing if I can't make it even simpler. More on that in
other replies.

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com/BDPhoto.html - Photo Contest
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

"K Smith" wrote in message
...
Not an objection as such, but you might also give thought to just having
a bowline loop around this spring on a line led back to where ever
it's convenient for you to get at, so;

(i) The loop is up at the bow cleat,

(ii) This looped line doesn't go outboard at all but straight back to
where ever you are, possibly even down the port side deck?? (Steering
station is port?? can't see too well but appears so in the pic)

(ii) Once you cast off the spring from the stern quarter you can then
retrieve it but pulling on the extra looped line.

That way the spring will be returning via it's original route, but you
won't have two lines nor a potentially catchy loop outside the boat,
also the spring should finish up back inboard with you.


K

Lloyd,

You and otnmbrd came up with about the same idea, but your message got there
first.

My first impression is that you're both verging on brilliance. (And no, I
don't mean to sound surprised...)

====

Charles T. Low
- remove "UN"
www.boatdocking.com/BDPhoto.html - Photo Contest
www.boatdocking.com
www.ctlow.ca/Trojan26 - my boat

====

"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...

I THINK I understand what you're attempting to do, but forgive me if I
misread.

How about starting the "loop" at the stern cleat? Then up around the
midships
cleat, around the bow cleat, and back to the stern? Then, when it's ready
to go,
you can release it and get it all back in the cockpit without running up
to the
bow...

Lloyd Sumpter
"Far Cove" Catalina 36

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:10:37 -0500, "Charles T. Low"
wrote:

SWS,

Thanks. Bow in with that short finger-dock would be difficult in terms of
getting on/off, esp. with gear. Doable. All the sailboaters do it! I do
advocate abandoning a stern-to docking in heavy weather, but 95% of the
time, stern-to is much more pleasant, and it's hard to predict the winds
several days hence, which may be when I want to or am able to go out again.

So, that's a no. Good idea, though.

Sorry about the no diagram - that would take me an hour or something which I
do not have just now. Or do I? I could just draw it and scan it - we'll see.

~~ snippage ~~

Don't bother - I think I understand it.

I back my Contender in and I'm on an end slip next to a 40 foot sail
boat which can be interesting sometimes - the marina is protected by
old barges which create all sort of interesting cross currents and
wind shifts. Nothing like your dealing with though.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------

"Fisherman are born honest, but they get
over it." - Ed Zern