On 5 May 2005 13:16:50 -0700, wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On this day in 1862 the French, the one nation that has never had a
major military victory, had their asses handed to them by the Mexican
Army.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html

Just another contribution to the French schizoid personality of
feeling superior while actually being inferior. :)

Later,

Tom

I find it amazing that people are still running around with blinders
on, and believing that just because a group of people, or a country, is
somehow inferior to us because they have different beliefs and values.

Lighten up - it's a joke.

Sheesh.

Was Napoleon really French?

"Butch Davis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Napoleon? Did pretty well for a while, eh?

Butch
"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On this day in 1862 the French, the one nation that has never had a
major military victory, had their asses handed to them by the Mexican
Army.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html

Just another contribution to the French schizoid personality of
feeling superior while actually being inferior. :)

Later,

Tom


Au contraire, mon ami.

You forget that the French won the French Revolution.
Of course, they were fighting the French.

On Thu, 5 May 2005 20:26:30 -0400, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:

Was Napoleon really French?

Corsican. Which is really Italian, but Corsica is part of France -
from the mid-18th century on.

Later,

Tom

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

Air Force generals who know what they're talking about were telling Nixon
that the bombing was not producing results. Pretty unusual advice from
guys whose specialty is dropping bombs, and who had been doing exactly
that to Hanoi for many years. Hanoi was symbolic, not strategic.

The capiltol city of the opposition is symbolic. You capture it and you
demoralize the population.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 May 2005 19:05:23 +0000, NOYB wrote:


Of course. And that's one of the reasons why Truman didn't allow
MacArthur to push past the 38th parallel, once he had driven the N.
Koreans back to it.

Uh, you may want to consider reading a little about the Korean War. We
did push past the 38th parallel, way past. China didn't enter the war
until we were approaching the Yalu River. Oh, and MacArthur may have been
a great General, but he forgot, in this country, the President is the
Commander in Chief..

The problem with McArthur is he didn't spend enough time in the US.

Truman fired McArthur.

Why didn't we send ground forces north of the 17th parallel? Why didn't
we bomb the hell out of the North with our B-52's?

LOL, perhaps it is because the B-52 wasn't quite yet in our inventory.

This section is talking about the B-52's in Vietnam and they were operation
and in operational use. The problem was that we had the ChiCom's and the
Soviets to worry about. Vietnam was part of the global war between the
"West" and the Soviet Bloc. Johnson blinked.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 5 May 2005 20:26:30 -0400, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:

Was Napoleon really French?

Corsican. Which is really Italian, but Corsica is part of France -
from the mid-18th century on.

So, Napoleon's victories in war can be attributed to his Italian/Roman
heritage. The French are loosers any way you put it.

"Harry.Krause" wrote in message
...
Bert Robbins wrote:
"thunder" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 05 May 2005 19:05:23 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Of course. And that's one of the reasons why Truman didn't allow
MacArthur to push past the 38th parallel, once he had driven the N.
Koreans back to it.

Uh, you may want to consider reading a little about the Korean War. We
did push past the 38th parallel, way past. China didn't enter the war
until we were approaching the Yalu River. Oh, and MacArthur may have
been
a great General, but he forgot, in this country, the President is the
Commander in Chief..


The problem with McArthur is he didn't spend enough time in the US.

Truman fired McArthur.


Why didn't we send ground forces north of the 17th parallel? Why didn't
we bomb the hell out of the North with our B-52's?

LOL, perhaps it is because the B-52 wasn't quite yet in our inventory.


This section is talking about the B-52's in Vietnam and they were
operation and in operational use. The problem was that we had the
ChiCom's and the Soviets to worry about. Vietnam was part of the global
war between the "West" and the Soviet Bloc. Johnson blinked.

This from a marine corps reserve behavioral problem who couldn't get an
overseas billet?

And just how many of the USMC reserves were activated in the early '80's and
which were sent over seas?

The ATC issue doesn't count because many military Air Traffic Controllers
where activated to man the towers to keep the plans flying.

On Thu, 5 May 2005 21:53:55 -0400, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 5 May 2005 20:26:30 -0400, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:

Was Napoleon really French?

Corsican. Which is really Italian, but Corsica is part of France -
from the mid-18th century on.

So, Napoleon's victories in war can be attributed to his Italian/Roman
heritage. The French are loosers any way you put it.

I don't know about losers in total - they did invent hot air balloons,
discovered radiation and ...um...er...

something.

Later,

Tom

On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:33 -0400, NOYB wrote:


The Chinese were neck-deep in things from the beginning. China gave its
blessings for the start of the war to Kim, and then supplied the North
Koreans during the early months of the war. They were an active
participant from the very beginning. MacArthur wanted to hit supply
depots in China, and Truman refused. Yes, MacArthur pushed north to the
Yalu, but it was against Truman's orders. That's why I said that
"Truman didn't allow MacArthur to push past the 38th". Six months
later, MacArthur was removed from command.

Not quite. Truman's orders to MacArthur:
"Your military objective is the
destruction of the North Korean armed forces. In attaining this objective
you are authorized to conduct military operations, including amphibious
and airborne landings or ground operations north of the 38th Parallel in
Korea, provided that at the time of such operations there has been no
entry into North Korea by major Soviet or Chinese Communist Forces, no
announcement of intended entry, nor a threat to counter our operations
militarily in North Korea. Under no circumstances, however, will your
forces cross the Manchurian or USSR borders of Korea" - Gen. Bradley,
Chairman, US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Sept.27, 1950.

Truman decided that it would be better to reach a stalemate than risk a
larger war with either China or the Soviet Union, or both. MacArthur
thought that he was already fighting the Chinese and Truman was tying his
hands. It's unclear what the world would look like today if MacArthur's
voice was listened to, but Truman's precedent of limited war is still with
us.

LOL? The reference to the 17th parallel had to do with my discussion
with Doug about Vietnam. Korea didn't have a "17th parallel". That
should have been your first clue.

Yup, my mistake. I did catch it, and tried to supersede the post, but .
.. .


And the B-52 was very much in our inventory during the Vietnam war.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 05 May 2005 20:13:33 -0400, NOYB wrote:


The Chinese were neck-deep in things from the beginning. China gave its
blessings for the start of the war to Kim, and then supplied the North
Koreans during the early months of the war. They were an active
participant from the very beginning. MacArthur wanted to hit supply
depots in China, and Truman refused. Yes, MacArthur pushed north to the
Yalu, but it was against Truman's orders. That's why I said that
"Truman didn't allow MacArthur to push past the 38th". Six months
later, MacArthur was removed from command.

Not quite. Truman's orders to MacArthur:
"Your military objective is the
destruction of the North Korean armed forces. In attaining this objective
you are authorized to conduct military operations, including amphibious
and airborne landings or ground operations north of the 38th Parallel in
Korea, provided that at the time of such operations there has been no
entry into North Korea by major Soviet or Chinese Communist Forces,
no announcement of intended entry, nor a threat to counter our operations
militarily in North Korea.

This is where MacArthur felt that things were up for interpretation. He
knew that US forces were facing Soviet fighter jets and pilots, and Soviet
"advised" N. Korean forces. He also knew that the Soviets and Chinese
were supplying the N. Koreans. He also knew that both the Chinese and
Soviets were ready to counter any move by Allied forces into North Korea.
By MacArthur's interpretation, we were already at war with the Soviets and
Chinese. Ergo, according to his orders he probably shouldn't have moved
north of the 38th Parallel, but did anyhow.

Ironically, we're facing a similar scenario in Iraq. We know that Iran and
Syria are supplying arms, men, and intelligence to the insurgency. Unlike
Truman, however, I don't believe Bush will blink when the time comes to go
after either country. Of course, neither country is a nuclear power, and
neither country poses quite the same threat that a nuclear armed USSR posed.




Under no circumstances, however, will your
forces cross the Manchurian or USSR borders of Korea" - Gen. Bradley,
Chairman, US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Sept.27, 1950.

Well, at least MacArthur followed that order.


Truman decided that it would be better to reach a stalemate than risk a
larger war with either China or the Soviet Union, or both. MacArthur
thought that he was already fighting the Chinese and Truman was tying his
hands. It's unclear what the world would look like today if MacArthur's
voice was listened to, but Truman's precedent of limited war is still with
us.

Limited war is a farce. Neither side wins with limited war. I'm not a
proponent of war. But if and when it's inevitable and necessary, it should
not be "limited". We fought limited wars in Vietnam and Korea...which is
why one of those ended with our withdrawal, and the other ended in a
stalemate.

Korea and Vietnam were Cold War wars fought on other people's land. Sadly,
both countries were pawns in a US vs. Soviet dick-waving contest.