On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:38:45 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter"
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:18:39 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:49:45 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:

Hi,
(Geez, another boating-related topic! I gotta stop...)

My 1989 Johnson 15hp smokes a lot. It uses so little fuel that I've
forgotten when I fueled up, but I always put in 50:1. Is there other reasons
apart from too much oil in the gas which would make a 2-stroke smoke? Is there
a way to find out what the ratio IS (I might have mis-calculated)? I want to
sell the engine, and it's a Hard Sell when you can't see the engine for smoke
(Koff! Koff!)

It runs fine apart from the smoke.

It the fuel is older, that could be a problem, but the oil may have settled in
the tank - needs to be mixed again - or the rings may need to reseat themselves
(run it for a while) - or the rings may be bad - or the fuel mixture as you
mentioned, but I believe that 50:1 is about right for that vintage.

Hmmmm...why would bad rings make a 2-stroke smoke? It does seem to smoke less
after I've run it for awhile.

To be honest with you, I don't know. I had an '83 70 hp Johnson that
didn't smoke too much, but it was annoying. I also had low
compression one cylinder. Took the thing apart, honed the cylinders,
new rings, back together and no smoke.

I assume it has to do with incomplete combustion, but that's a guess.

Just being honest about it.

Later,

Tom

"Calif Bill" wrote in message link.net...
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:15:21 +0000, Bill wrote:

Those were great motors and extremely popular. It is probably the mix
ratio
if it smokes a lot even after it is warmed up but it could be adjusted
a
little rich too.

I think it might be worth the investment to get some fresh gasoline and
some
OMC/Johnson/Evinrude 2 cycle oil and mix it accurately to 50:1.


--
Bill Kiene



Lloyd,
I would do what Bill suggested first with the fresh gas and correct oil
mixture.
If it still smoke real bad you might want to look at the Carburetors.
They may
be loading up causing the rich gas/oil to dump in the cylinders.
Remember Gas
burn better then Oil

Bill

Sounds like I should "explore" a too-rich mixture. There's a knob on the
front -
does that change mixture at all rpms or just idle (or what DOES it do?)

I want to get some fresh gas, but I'm not sure what to do with the old
stuff.
My lawn mower would explode - it's electric!

Lloyd


Put it in a 5 gallon can and try the new fuel. You can always add a gallon
to your van every fillup.

That should do wonders for the fuel injectors.

Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:15:21 +0000, Bill wrote:


Those were great motors and extremely popular. It is probably the mix

ratio

if it smokes a lot even after it is warmed up but it could be adjusted a
little rich too.

I think it might be worth the investment to get some fresh gasoline and

some

OMC/Johnson/Evinrude 2 cycle oil and mix it accurately to 50:1.


--
Bill Kiene



Lloyd,
I would do what Bill suggested first with the fresh gas and correct oil mixture.
If it still smoke real bad you might want to look at the Carburetors. They may
be loading up causing the rich gas/oil to dump in the cylinders. Remember Gas
burn better then Oil

Bill


Sounds like I should "explore" a too-rich mixture. There's a knob on the front -
does that change mixture at all rpms or just idle (or what DOES it do?)

I want to get some fresh gas, but I'm not sure what to do with the old stuff.
My lawn mower would explode - it's electric!

Lloyd


The knob on the front is a mixture needle for low speed only, the high
speed jets are fixed orifices on that engine.

Dump the old gas into any convenient car or truck. Sure, into a nearly
full tank of fresh gas would be best, but neither you nor the vehicle
will ever notice the difference, and no, your van won't smoke like a
2-stroke.

Rob

"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:15:21 +0000, Bill wrote:

Those were great motors and extremely popular. It is probably the
mix
ratio
if it smokes a lot even after it is warmed up but it could be
adjusted
a
little rich too.

I think it might be worth the investment to get some fresh gasoline
and
some
OMC/Johnson/Evinrude 2 cycle oil and mix it accurately to 50:1.


--
Bill Kiene



Lloyd,
I would do what Bill suggested first with the fresh gas and correct
oil
mixture.
If it still smoke real bad you might want to look at the
Carburetors.
They may
be loading up causing the rich gas/oil to dump in the cylinders.
Remember Gas
burn better then Oil

Bill

Sounds like I should "explore" a too-rich mixture. There's a knob on
the
front -
does that change mixture at all rpms or just idle (or what DOES it
do?)

I want to get some fresh gas, but I'm not sure what to do with the old
stuff.
My lawn mower would explode - it's electric!

Lloyd


Put it in a 5 gallon can and try the new fuel. You can always add a
gallon
to your van every fillup.

That should do wonders for the fuel injectors.

15 gallons of fresh and a gallon of 25:1. less oil than a can of topoil.
Bill

I am still not sure what oil does "bad" for fuel injectors. I suppose the folks
with the EFI 2 strokes wonder too. 50:1 is really not much oil anyway.

I use the new 100% synthetic Pennzoil TW3-W (all of the bottles don't
say this, but Pennzoil assured me it is rated that way) in my 2 stroke
dinghy motor and it seems to smoke and smell less than the other stuff.
Of course this costs twice as much as the regular, but hey, it's a
boating expense and doesn't really count, does it?

Capt. Jeff

Messing In Boats wrote in message ...
I use the new 100% synthetic Pennzoil TW3-W (all of the bottles don't
say this, but Pennzoil assured me it is rated that way) in my 2 stroke
dinghy motor and it seems to smoke and smell less than the other stuff.
Of course this costs twice as much as the regular, but hey, it's a
boating expense and doesn't really count, does it?

Capt. Jeff

Nah, the added expense is really neglegible. Seeing how it's a boat,
twice the cost is not bad!!!!

(Greg) wrote in message ...
I am still not sure what oil does "bad" for fuel injectors. I suppose the folks
with the EFI 2 strokes wonder too. 50:1 is really not much oil anyway.

It's more viscous. Meaning, it isn't made to fit through the VERY tiny
openings in a typical fuel injector.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message ink.net...
"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
"Lloyd Sumpter" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:15:21 +0000, Bill wrote:

Those were great motors and extremely popular. It is probably the
mix
ratio
if it smokes a lot even after it is warmed up but it could be
adjusted
a
little rich too.

I think it might be worth the investment to get some fresh gasoline
and
some
OMC/Johnson/Evinrude 2 cycle oil and mix it accurately to 50:1.


--
Bill Kiene



Lloyd,
I would do what Bill suggested first with the fresh gas and correct
oil
mixture.
If it still smoke real bad you might want to look at the
Carburetors.
They may
be loading up causing the rich gas/oil to dump in the cylinders.
Remember Gas
burn better then Oil

Bill

Sounds like I should "explore" a too-rich mixture. There's a knob on
the
front -
does that change mixture at all rpms or just idle (or what DOES it
do?)

I want to get some fresh gas, but I'm not sure what to do with the old
stuff.
My lawn mower would explode - it's electric!

Lloyd


Put it in a 5 gallon can and try the new fuel. You can always add a
gallon
to your van every fillup.

That should do wonders for the fuel injectors.

15 gallons of fresh and a gallon of 25:1. less oil than a can of topoil.
Bill

sorry Bill, should have simpled it down for you. Two stroke motor oil
is not the same as a "can of topoil". Fuel injectors aren't made to
have oil pushed through them, leaving deposits, eventually gumming
them up beyond working condition. Contact a representative of a
reputable company that manufactures fuel injectors, say, Bosch, and
see what they say. There are other negative factors involved also. The
added exhaust particulates, when read by the O2 sensor, makes the
computer think there is a rich condition, then tries to lean it out.

"Calif Bill" wrote

15 gallons of fresh and a gallon of 25:1. less oil than a can of
topoil.
Bill

"basskisser" wrote
sorry Bill, should have simpled it down for you. Two stroke motor oil
is not the same as a "can of topoil". Fuel injectors aren't made to
have oil pushed through them, leaving deposits, eventually gumming
them up beyond working condition. Contact a representative of a
reputable company that manufactures fuel injectors, say, Bosch, and
see what they say. There are other negative factors involved also. The
added exhaust particulates, when read by the O2 sensor, makes the
computer think there is a rich condition, then tries to lean it out.

This sounds like a reasonable caution to me and the first time I've actually
had it explained to me. As I earlier posted, I've used old 50:1, at a rate
of a few gallons to a tank full a couple of times in my cars, some carb.
some FI. It makes sense not to do it in the FI rigs (so far, no prob, but
....) , but what do you think about carbureted vehicles, at a dilution of,
say 5 gal 50:1 to 15 - 20 gal regular fuel?

Grissy