JAXAshby wrote:
a.) they do, and

LOL We could keep this "yes"/"no" up for months, but since I doubt
you've ever sailed on a ship, how's bout showing us where you got this
ridiculous idea that ships keep their engines running while at anchor.

b.) it is not germaine to the discussion of safe anchoring of recreational
sailboats.

On the contrary. The same things apply. The main difference is relative
size.

otn


anchoring on all chain is done by weak old men unable to lift a 35# anchor.


Once again .... NO THEY DON'T.

Now, so you understand .... IF it's a steam ship, after anchoring, they
will "spin" the turbines for a while and then put them on the "jacking"
gear to cool them, unless it's to be a short anchoring (in which case
they'll "spin" them to keep them warm). Naturally the boilers remain on
line since they are used for Hotel services.
Diesel electric: Depending on the setup, if the generators for the
engine are exclusive to the main propulsion, they will be secured.(same
with GT)
Straight GT: Shut down.
Direct drive diesel: (majority of larger ships) SHUT DOWN, PERIOD.

otn

JAXAshby wrote:

But you haven't seemed to grasp the fact that navy
ships and commercial ships do not "leave their engines running" while in
port.


but they do while "at anchor". check it out.

JAXAshby wrote:
There is no possible linkage between using chain and ripping deck
chocks loose.


bull****. At least those who build offshore oil rigs knows it is bull****.


G It appears that since you could not discuss ships anchoring systems,
you've done some googling and decided you can "snow" everyone with this
latest troll by changing to oil rigs.
Show us what oil rigs use and what the difference is .... or didn't you
get that far....

otn

BTW Do you know what a "chock" is?

JAXAshby wrote:

dougies, you sell concrete slabs to mobile home buyers.

I think my employer is going to be *very* surprised to hear that. You
are confused again.

... you no more have
access to all the mil specs than you have an understanding of freshman physics.

Actually, I have written a couple of Mil-Specs. Check with NAVSEA and NIST.

As for understanding physics, let's go back to the old hull speed
discussion. I understand that you have published several keynote papers
in this field?


go look it up yourself

Sorry, I have better things to do. See ya in the funny papers, Jax

DSK

Subject: All chain rode is for old men
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 05/12/2004 21:05 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Is everyone misguided, save you?

my opinion is no different that the physicists, US Mil Spec and the oil rig
designers.


Jax You wouldn't know an oil rig from an oil platform, much less how they
anchor them.
Obviously, just another Jaxtroll, wherein he knows not of what he speaks, but
insist on throwing in his usual "physicists" and "US Mil Spec" smokescreens in
a vain attempt to bamboozle the unwary.
Are we now to add "Oil Rig Designer" to your imaginary knowledge base?

Shen

Oh yeah, almost forgot ..... no matter how many times you try and say otherwise
..... ships do not run their engines when at anchor in a open roadstead, except
in extrodinary conditions (in which case, if they could, they'd be gone).

gene, would you mind very much not posting when you are drunk? wait until a
day or two from now and then try to rewrite your post below:

b.) they never weather a storm at anchor.

most recreational boaters don't either.... and if they did, hopefully
they would have sense enough to put a snubber on each anchor line.

a "storm" strong enough to jerk and all chain rode loose from the bottom on
a
for an anchored recreational sailboat is not even 20 knots of wind and 3
foot
waves.

but thanks for enlightening us, for you have told us *you* are always tied
to
the dock at the end of the day, so you buy 300# of chain just so you can
brag
about buying 300# of chain to weight down the bow of you boat.

Nice grammar, JAX. You must cut have cut English to go to two physics
classes.

Anyway, my boat is poorly suited to be an overnighter, so why wouldn't
I tie up every night? I bought the boat to fish with, not cruise.....
did you think you were posting this to rec.boats.cruising?

Wrong again, I haven't bought 300# of chain, but I have and continue
to seriously considered it because it stores much better than plastic
and is much less prone to pull out of sand with (necessarily) short
rodes.

I use 30 feet of chain and 270 feet of 1/2 line (uh, that's rope, for
you, I guess). Since you are the rec.boats resident math champion,
figure this out and see how much rode you would use..... in the
waters off of Southern NC where I boat, most bottom fishing is done in
85 feet of water. You think 300 feet of rode is excessive? I
certainly don't have room for 600 feet of 1/2 nylon rode.

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

On a more serious note, though, if we have this many people at risk
from such an avoidable, careless, and demonstrably unscientific
practice, maybe somebody should get a law passed carrying stiff
penalties.

the law already exists. it is called reckless endangerment, and it is the law
that was originally used to get drunk drivers off the road.

dougies tells us he don't know from squat but he *IS* sure that he is not in
danger because he is never on the water in winds above 6 knots thusly:

dougies, you sell concrete slabs to mobile home buyers.

I think my employer is going to be *very* surprised to hear that. You
are confused again.

... you no more have
access to all the mil specs than you have an understanding of freshman
physics.

Actually, I have written a couple of Mil-Specs. Check with NAVSEA and NIST.

As for understanding physics, let's go back to the old hull speed
discussion. I understand that you have published several keynote papers
in this field?


go look it up yourself

Sorry, I have better things to do. See ya in the funny papers, Jax

DSK

Gosh, you are such a jerk there jax!

goudie, you shore do stretch yourself out
faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar beyone the ordinary just to prove you
don't understand sometime understood by millions of 18 year old boys across the
land in freshman physics classes.

there is a simplified 380 page summary of catenaries out there available to the
beginning oil rig engineer. It only costs $1,015, plus shipping and handling.
I suggest you spend two weeks pay for you and get a copy.

you are totally lost on this subject. totally.

either that or you are trying hope against hope to prove that you are not
really a lazy, weak old man when you are.

argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gould you can NOT possibly be THAT stupid.

Can you?

Your comparison between hooking a chain to a pickup truck (and then putting
the
truck in gear to pull the slack out of the chain) and anchoring is flawed.

I'll waste the time required to explain just why. It won't make any
difference
to you, of course, but there might be a person momentarily taken in by your
blustering bull squat who needs to be reassured that
if Ass and Teakettle both appeared on the chart, you'd draw a rhumbline to
Teakettle
but set a course to Ass.

Two practical, demonstrable, counter arguments.

1: You suggest an experiment where a cahin is hooked to a rock on one side of
a
crevasse, a quantity slack is dropped into the valley, and the other end of
the
cahin hooked to a truck on the side opposite the rock. You postulate that if
the
truck is put into gear the chain would be pulled straight. There are
instances
where this would not be true, (perhaps a monstrous chain with links that
weighed
150 pounds apiece), but rather than counter your absurd example with an even
more absurd exception, we'll presume that the chain in use would also be
suitable for anchoring a small or medium size pleasure
vessel.

a) If you repeat the experiment with an all rope rode, or a mixed rope and
chain rode,
how would the results be different? Most assuredly, they would not.

b) what would happen if you attempt to start the great chain pull in 4th
gear,
rather than first? Results would be less predictable.

2: Next time you're anywhere near a marina, try this experiment.

First, while still in the parking lot, lean as hard as you can into any 4,000
pound truck or SUV that might be on hand. Put your entire body weight against
any portion of the truck you choose- front bumper, rear bumper, passenger
door, driver's door, you name it. Make a note of just exactly how far you
manage to move that vehicle off the exact spot it occupied when the pushing
and
grunting began. I could tell you what that distance that is going to be, but
I
wouldn't want to spoil your opportunity to learn by doing.

Then, find somebody to let you on the dock. Rather than a 4,000 pound boat,
look for something that is more likely to weigh maybe 60,000 pounds. Many 55
or
60-foot motoryachts can tip the scales in that general area. The exact weight
of the boat isn't essential, but select something that is 10, 15, or 20 times
heavier than the pickup truck in the parking lot to fully appreciate the
lesson
you can learn from the experiment.

With a boat selected, put your weight against it. The same force that could
not
budge a pickup truck will move a boat rather nicely.

To get full benefit of this experiment, find a vessel with plenty of slack in
the lines and continue leaning against the hull as it moves away from the
dock.
Why settle for a single physics lesson when two can be learned at once. :-)

That much lesser force is all that is required to move a boat. The force can
be
applied by wind, of course. An anchor works because the force attempting to
keep the boat secured to a fixed point exceeds the force attempting to remove
it.
The additional weight of a chain rode, properly sized for the vessel and the
anticipated conditions, creates a larger belly in the rode. Mariners have
understood the benefits of gravitational force on anchor rodes for many
hundreds of years. Consider a kellet.......doesn't change the characteristic
of
the rode but increases the effect of gravity.

Hey Jax, shouldn't you at LEAST be a boater first??