In addition, the fact that the neighbors waited several years to
complain may have created an easement for mooring the boat
(independent of the easement for access). There are ways that
a default easement my be created through inaction on the part
of the property owner (if indeed the neighbors do own the lake).
An example of this is that Stanford University closes Palm Drive
once a year to prevent a public easement from being created.

--
Chuck Tribolet

http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet

Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world.


"noah" wrote in message ...
On 08 Jul 2003 02:14:32 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

The adjacent owners complained about the pontoon boat blocking their
view, but if the boat is legally docked, that's their problem.

I believe the complaint is that the docked boat extends 6 feet across the
property line.

That would not be something the adjoining property owner is required to
tolerate, in most areas.

True, except that most property lines (at least here in the Northeast)
end at the high-water mark. There have been several local cases where
this demarcation has been reaffirmed by the courts. (i.e: public
access to navigable water through private land).

I know that other states and localities may (and do) vary, ergo the
check with local authorities.

If the man has a legal right to mooring, the complaints are like your
neighbors complaing about your pink lawn pelicans. )

If it was me, I would prefer a friendly resolution, but the guy needs
to know if he has any legal right to mooring. After that, he can
either apologise, or make nice.
noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

On 08 Jul 2003 09:22:06 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

True, except that most property lines (at least here in the Northeast)
end at the high-water mark. There have been several local cases where
this demarcation has been reaffirmed by the courts. (i.e: public
access to navigable water through private land).

In the west, freshwater shoreline plats usually extend a ways into the lake.
The fact that the adjoining *easement* has a dock would lead one to suspect, at
least 'round here, that property boundaries extend far enough into the lake to
construct a dock.

In Washington, any land beyond the actual deeded property that a land owner
wants to improve with pilings, floats, docks, etc, must be leased from the
People through the Department of Natural Resources as it is considered publicly
owned. In such a case, most shoreline property owners lease a fairly uniform
distance into the water out to a line often called "harbor limits line". If the
owner of one property doesn't lease all the way to the harbor limits line, an
adjacent property owner can lease underwater land across the front of the other
party's holdings and theoretically construct an "L" shaped dock that would
restrict the access and view. Bummer.

....that illustrates my point, Chuck. There is a wide range of
"normal" in property law, particularly pertaining to boundaries on
navigable water.

The boater in question really needs to determine what rules affect his
docking, and abide by them.

In at least one state, it is illegal to lean over a bridge railing.
In another (Missouri, I think), it is illegal to fist-fight in any
river or lake. Whodathunkit? )

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:38:11 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

have to give a public easement. The easement is for his access to the
lake,
not a private dock, he did not build, does not own, etc. He could
possibly
drop a mooring anchor and buoy, but this is regulated by the gov't in
most
public lakes and by the CCR's of the property owners on private lakes.
Bill


I understand your position, Bill, but I still think the man needs to
determine what is allowed by state, local, and Property Association
regulations (if any). If the dock is available for unrestricted use
by the "property owners", then the man is within his rights to dock
there. If there are restrictions, then he may have to move his boat.

Without knowing the facts, there is no way for me, or you, to come to
any reasonable conclusion.

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats


What I am saying is this is a convience dock. Not a personal, private dock.
His docking there mostly removes the dock from the usage of any other lake
owner. fHe needs to build a dock in front of his property. Get permission,
or whatever from the rest of the lake owners. He is using this as his
personal owned dock.
Bill

"ClassicBoat" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:35:10 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"noah" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:38:11 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

have to give a public easement. The easement is for his access to the
lake,
not a private dock, he did not build, does not own, etc. He could
possibly
drop a mooring anchor and buoy, but this is regulated by the gov't in
most
public lakes and by the CCR's of the property owners on private lakes.
Bill


I understand your position, Bill, but I still think the man needs to
determine what is allowed by state, local, and Property Association
regulations (if any). If the dock is available for unrestricted use
by the "property owners", then the man is within his rights to dock
there. If there are restrictions, then he may have to move his boat.

Without knowing the facts, there is no way for me, or you, to come to
any reasonable conclusion.

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats


What I am saying is this is a convience dock. Not a personal, private
dock.
His docking there mostly removes the dock from the usage of any other
lake
owner. fHe needs to build a dock in front of his property. Get
permission,
or whatever from the rest of the lake owners. He is using this as his
personal owned dock.
Bill


How do you know this? I even posted a pointed question to the
original poster querying this point. Since the OP hasn't responded, I
assume he doesn't know the answer, either.

HE does not own the dock. Does not have a deed to it, and is on an
easement. Why would you or he think they have an exclusive right to hog the
dock?
Bill

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:35:10 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"noah" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:38:11 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

have to give a public easement. The easement is for his access to the
lake,
not a private dock, he did not build, does not own, etc. He could
possibly
drop a mooring anchor and buoy, but this is regulated by the gov't in
most
public lakes and by the CCR's of the property owners on private lakes.
Bill


I understand your position, Bill, but I still think the man needs to
determine what is allowed by state, local, and Property Association
regulations (if any). If the dock is available for unrestricted use
by the "property owners", then the man is within his rights to dock
there. If there are restrictions, then he may have to move his boat.

Without knowing the facts, there is no way for me, or you, to come to
any reasonable conclusion.

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats


What I am saying is this is a convience dock. Not a personal, private dock.
His docking there mostly removes the dock from the usage of any other lake
owner. fHe needs to build a dock in front of his property. Get permission,
or whatever from the rest of the lake owners. He is using this as his
personal owned dock.
Bill

Sorry Bill, but this thread has become a bit of nonsense.
Without specific factual information concerning the guy's state,
local, and easement rights, we are impersonating the blind men with
the elephant.

Unless the OP provides more information, I'm out.
Regards,
noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

On 10 Jul 2003 20:14:15 -0700, (B. Gerecke) wrote:

noah wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:35:10 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"noah" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:38:11 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

have to give a public easement. The easement is for his access to the
lake,
not a private dock, he did not build, does not own, etc. He could
possibly
drop a mooring anchor and buoy, but this is regulated by the gov't in
most
public lakes and by the CCR's of the property owners on private lakes.
Bill


I understand your position, Bill, but I still think the man needs to
determine what is allowed by state, local, and Property Association
regulations (if any). If the dock is available for unrestricted use
by the "property owners", then the man is within his rights to dock
there. If there are restrictions, then he may have to move his boat.

Without knowing the facts, there is no way for me, or you, to come to
any reasonable conclusion.

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats


What I am saying is this is a convience dock. Not a personal, private dock.
His docking there mostly removes the dock from the usage of any other lake
owner. fHe needs to build a dock in front of his property. Get permission,
or whatever from the rest of the lake owners. He is using this as his
personal owned dock.
Bill

Sorry Bill, but this thread has become a bit of nonsense.
Without specific factual information concerning the guy's state,
local, and easement rights, we are impersonating the blind men with
the elephant.

Unless the OP provides more information, I'm out.
Regards,
noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

Folks,

Thanks for the information, and I have to say it's more than I
expected! Anyway, after talking with my friend a little more I've
found out that the dock was built years ago by the previous owner of
his house. The dock is not mentioned in the easement or in his title.
It is indeed a shared easement, and several other titles grant use of
this 8' strip of property for access to the lake. There is an
interesting bit of language in his title concerning the easement which
states that it must be clear so that a "team" (as in horses) can have
access! I guess back in the early 1900s this easement functioned as a
boat ramp.

In regards to the "navigable waters" issue, the lake is spring fed and
the only way to get a boat on a river, bay or ocean is if you trailier
it out of there. There is public boat ramp on the lake.

I have a feeling this information will not bring clarity to the
matter, but I felt obligated to post after all the debate! Thanks
again.

Bill

Bill- depending upon how important it is to your friend to dock his
boat there, I suggest that he consult with a local attorney.

I am not an attorney, and this issue gets more complicated by the day.
) (i.e- the public ramp may convey "navigable water" status to the
lake; if the dock existed before the complaining neighbor bought his
house, your friends' right to use may exist under grandfathering
rights; depending upon your State laws, the neighbors' property and
"claim" may end at the high-water mark- but State or Local code may
prohibit or allow the use or existence of the dock. It goes on...)

Too complicated for a political.....er, boating newsgroup, since so
much depends upon the *applicable* laws or codes in the area in
question, and how much your friend wants to alienate the neighbor.
Opinion doesn't count for much in an issue like this, unless offered
by a qualified attorney or judge.

Good luck,
noah



Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats