Hi:

I have an 18.5 Reedcraft shallow draft all welded
aluminum fish and ski with a Merc 80 Jet
I use for mostly guiding rocky rivers here in Maine.

Fishing pools and lake slow trolling with
the jet ouboard at low throttle results in the
intake shoe grates getting plogged with weed
necesitating a raking before launch. This can
be significantly inconvenient in certain fast
water areas to say the least.

Therefore I need a kicker, which I have, for
slow trolling. At full up travel my kicker needs to be
completely out of the water given the shallow and
rocky water I run in and the presence of a very
draggy heavy duty rock guard on the lower unit.

Unfortunately the transom on the Reedcraft
is too wide to simply mount my 6 H.P. Tohatsu
with the caged prop and go so I need a kicker
mounting solution.

I see the "Auxiary Outboard Motor Brackets" in the
Cabelas, West Marine and Boats US catalogues and
am debating the utility of the typical mid duty (to 124
Lb) model which has spring assisted lift and four positions
from 2.5 to 14 inches of travel. This model also has what
appears to have double bars seperated by 4-5 inches and
cross braced.

VS:

The lighter lift bracket for 82 to 115 Lb which has four
parallel bars with no seperation but which more closely fits
my motor and HP requirements (and also wallet).

The concern being the potentual for side to side flex with the
second lower end lift due to the lack of spacing between the
parallel bars, especially when the motor bangs along rock ledges
as it is apt to do when in use on the river (sometimes my small
trout fishing wood square stern boat points and moves
upriver while the outboard is at 60 degrees running upriver
scraping along a ledge.

VS

A simple 1" aluminum plate extending above the current
transom lip and securely four bolted thru the transom.
With this setup I would lift the motor using its normal mechanism
and it would be parallel to the water in jet running position, but
obviously need additional security in the form of a strap or tie up
to ensure it didn't drop into the water at speed just as I was crossing
a shallow bar at 30 Mph (not a pleasant thought). This would
put some extra stress on the motor mounting pins due to the additional
weight on the prop end from the rock guard but I could have this
type extension plate fabbed by my "on call" aluminum welder/machinist
in a day or so at minimal cost.

I would appreciate any comments or experiences, additional
advantages or disadvantages of any of the three options above.

I plan to run the kicker with a jointed telescoping extension handle
such as the Troll n'Buddy or Helmsmate rigged with a home made
cable hand shifter. Any thoughts on those as well?

Which side is the prefered side for mounting the kicker in terms of
motor prop torque effects on steering vs convenience?

Lots of questions..so go light on the spam please.

Thanks in advance.

--
{{ MudFish (Co30){('
www.kennebecriverguide.com
"Careful with that axe, Eugene"

Mudfish,

All the commercial aux brackets I looked at say to remove motor for
trailering, which they seem to think is more stressful than bouncing off the
waves. I ended up having my local weld shop reinforce my transom and weld a
custom bracket to it. Very solid, and no possibility of vibrating loose
either on the road or the water. To this I bolted a Bracket Pro
http://www.hnet.net/~bracketpro/ to take the stress off the motor's latch
when tilted up.

"Mudfish(Co30)" wrote in message
...
Hi:

I have an 18.5 Reedcraft shallow draft all welded
aluminum fish and ski with a Merc 80 Jet
I use for mostly guiding rocky rivers here in Maine.

Fishing pools and lake slow trolling with
the jet ouboard at low throttle results in the
intake shoe grates getting plogged with weed
necesitating a raking before launch. This can
be significantly inconvenient in certain fast
water areas to say the least.

Therefore I need a kicker, which I have, for
slow trolling. At full up travel my kicker needs to be
completely out of the water given the shallow and
rocky water I run in and the presence of a very
draggy heavy duty rock guard on the lower unit.

Unfortunately the transom on the Reedcraft
is too wide to simply mount my 6 H.P. Tohatsu
with the caged prop and go so I need a kicker
mounting solution.

I see the "Auxiary Outboard Motor Brackets" in the
Cabelas, West Marine and Boats US catalogues and
am debating the utility of the typical mid duty (to 124
Lb) model which has spring assisted lift and four positions
from 2.5 to 14 inches of travel. This model also has what
appears to have double bars seperated by 4-5 inches and
cross braced.

VS:

The lighter lift bracket for 82 to 115 Lb which has four
parallel bars with no seperation but which more closely fits
my motor and HP requirements (and also wallet).

The concern being the potentual for side to side flex with the
second lower end lift due to the lack of spacing between the
parallel bars, especially when the motor bangs along rock ledges
as it is apt to do when in use on the river (sometimes my small
trout fishing wood square stern boat points and moves
upriver while the outboard is at 60 degrees running upriver
scraping along a ledge.

VS

A simple 1" aluminum plate extending above the current
transom lip and securely four bolted thru the transom.
With this setup I would lift the motor using its normal mechanism
and it would be parallel to the water in jet running position, but
obviously need additional security in the form of a strap or tie up
to ensure it didn't drop into the water at speed just as I was crossing
a shallow bar at 30 Mph (not a pleasant thought). This would
put some extra stress on the motor mounting pins due to the additional
weight on the prop end from the rock guard but I could have this
type extension plate fabbed by my "on call" aluminum welder/machinist
in a day or so at minimal cost.

I would appreciate any comments or experiences, additional
advantages or disadvantages of any of the three options above.

I plan to run the kicker with a jointed telescoping extension handle
such as the Troll n'Buddy or Helmsmate rigged with a home made
cable hand shifter. Any thoughts on those as well?

Which side is the prefered side for mounting the kicker in terms of
motor prop torque effects on steering vs convenience?

Lots of questions..so go light on the spam please.

Thanks in advance.

--
{{ MudFish (Co30){('
www.kennebecriverguide.com
"Careful with that axe, Eugene"

"Mudfish(Co30)" wrote

I have an 18.5 Reedcraft shallow draft all welded
aluminum fish and ski with a Merc 80 Jet
I use for mostly guiding rocky rivers here in Maine.

then described a few options he's considering...

"Steve Alexanderson"
Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal
wrote

All the commercial aux brackets I looked at say to remove motor for
trailering, which they seem to think is more stressful than bouncing off
the
waves. I ended up having my local weld shop reinforce my transom and weld
a
custom bracket to it. Very solid, and no possibility of vibrating loose
either on the road or the water. To this I bolted a Bracket Pro
http://www.hnet.net/~bracketpro/ to take the stress off the motor's latch
when tilted up.

I also have a welded hull shalow draft boat with a large jet outboard and a
kicker bracket. I have a ~ 75 lb 10 hp short shaft kicker with a fairly
substantial "skeg guard" on the kicker. The bracket (which came with the
used boat) is rated to something like 140 lbs and/or 35 hp? Anyway, it's
definitely oversized for my motor. The original owner, I believe, had a
kicker in that (larger) range because he had it set up with electric start
and remote controls. A couple of comments

First, like Steve said, the bracket says don't trailer with the motor
attached. I''v ignored that from time to time, havimg decided that the
light weight motor on the heavy duty braket would be OK. And it has been.
My opinion was that the travel I've done over the waves is as bad or similar
to the stresses over the road, so far so good, but YMMV. Also, I had my
transom reinforced because there were appearing some superficial stress
cracking (not structural) from the main motor without kicker - or maybe it
was from original owner's larger kicker? I don't know because I don't know
if original owner trailered with kicker on bracket. Anyway, when I had the
reinforcement done, I told the boat builder that I wanted it to be strong
enough to be worry-proof - to handle the main engine, the kicker and be
strong enough in the future to accomodate the big 4 stroke I dream about
converting to 8-).

My kicker bracket is Garelick brand. I won't describe it in detail, but you
can raise the bracket enough so the kicker is out of the water without
tilting the kicker. This is handy because I don't have to worry about the
tilt-lock jarring loose like the original poster worried about. I can
safely trailer with kicker in locked down position. On the water, I just
raise the bracket and lock the motor in the down position to prevent
bouncing around when I'm underway with the main engine. For trailering, I
bungee it in the down position

The Garelick isn't the easiest to use - as far as it's up and down
mechanism, but once I got the hang of it, it works fine. I have to "teach"
partners how to do it because it's not totally idiot proof. The bracket
itself is very well made of appropriate materials. Structurally, I have
total faith in it. But, if I had it to do over, I'd look at other brands.
It would be a good idea to "test" them with a kicker in place because the
weight of the kicker affects how it works. For example, my bracket is
actually quite difficult to move up and down without weight on it. It's
pretty easy with weight. Think in terms of how easy it would be for an
inexperienced friend to make it work - because that's one thing an
inexperienced friend could do for you on board (as opposed to starting and
running the main motor).

The only down side is that kicker operation would be better if it were long
shaft, I think (just a guess - haven't tried a long shaft yet). I don't
know if the bracket would raise a long shaft kicker far enough out of the
water to avoid tilting it.

One final note - I use an "EZ Steer" linkage to my main motor to steer it.
I don't have remote conttols for the kicker, but just having the steering
mechanism is a great feature. I tried using the tiller and a tiller
extention, but I found it better for my purposes to have the steering away
from the fishing area. I'm working on hooking up a remote control to make
it even better. Again, YMMV.

Hope this helps.
Cam

"Camilo" wrote in message
...
"Mudfish(Co30)" wrote

I have an 18.5 Reedcraft shallow draft all welded
aluminum fish and ski with a Merc 80 Jet
I use for mostly guiding rocky rivers here in Maine.

then described a few options he's considering...

"Steve Alexanderson"
Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal
wrote

All the commercial aux brackets I looked at say to remove motor for
trailering, which they seem to think is more stressful than bouncing off
the
waves. I ended up having my local weld shop reinforce my transom and
weld
a
custom bracket to it. Very solid, and no possibility of vibrating loose
either on the road or the water. To this I bolted a Bracket Pro
http://www.hnet.net/~bracketpro/ to take the stress off the motor's
latch
when tilted up.

I also have a welded hull shalow draft boat with a large jet outboard and
a
kicker bracket. I have a ~ 75 lb 10 hp short shaft kicker with a fairly
substantial "skeg guard" on the kicker. The bracket (which came with the
used boat) is rated to something like 140 lbs and/or 35 hp? Anyway, it's
definitely oversized for my motor. The original owner, I believe, had a
kicker in that (larger) range because he had it set up with electric start
and remote controls. A couple of comments

First, like Steve said, the bracket says don't trailer with the motor
attached. I''v ignored that from time to time, havimg decided that the
light weight motor on the heavy duty braket would be OK. And it has been.
My opinion was that the travel I've done over the waves is as bad or
similar
to the stresses over the road, so far so good, but YMMV. Also, I had my
transom reinforced because there were appearing some superficial stress
cracking (not structural) from the main motor without kicker - or maybe it
was from original owner's larger kicker? I don't know because I don't
know
if original owner trailered with kicker on bracket. Anyway, when I had
the
reinforcement done, I told the boat builder that I wanted it to be strong
enough to be worry-proof - to handle the main engine, the kicker and be
strong enough in the future to accomodate the big 4 stroke I dream about
converting to 8-).

My kicker bracket is Garelick brand. I won't describe it in detail, but
you
can raise the bracket enough so the kicker is out of the water without
tilting the kicker. This is handy because I don't have to worry about the
tilt-lock jarring loose like the original poster worried about. I can
safely trailer with kicker in locked down position. On the water, I
just
raise the bracket and lock the motor in the down position to prevent
bouncing around when I'm underway with the main engine. For trailering, I
bungee it in the down position

The Garelick isn't the easiest to use - as far as it's up and down
mechanism, but once I got the hang of it, it works fine. I have to
"teach"
partners how to do it because it's not totally idiot proof. The bracket
itself is very well made of appropriate materials. Structurally, I have
total faith in it. But, if I had it to do over, I'd look at other brands.
It would be a good idea to "test" them with a kicker in place because the
weight of the kicker affects how it works. For example, my bracket is
actually quite difficult to move up and down without weight on it. It's
pretty easy with weight. Think in terms of how easy it would be for an
inexperienced friend to make it work - because that's one thing an
inexperienced friend could do for you on board (as opposed to starting and
running the main motor).

The only down side is that kicker operation would be better if it were
long
shaft, I think (just a guess - haven't tried a long shaft yet). I don't
know if the bracket would raise a long shaft kicker far enough out of the
water to avoid tilting it.

One final note - I use an "EZ Steer" linkage to my main motor to steer it.
I don't have remote conttols for the kicker, but just having the steering
mechanism is a great feature. I tried using the tiller and a tiller
extention, but I found it better for my purposes to have the steering away
from the fishing area. I'm working on hooking up a remote control to make
it even better. Again, YMMV.

Hope this helps.
Cam



Thanks Cam;

That was very useful. Does your Garelick have the spring assist lift and
seperated left and right dropping bars, or are the dropping bars
immediately side by side? That will ID it for me. All of the makes I have
looked at appear to be pretty much the same design inclusive of the
slightly cludge lift mechanism. Having a lift to get the kicker prop guard
completely clear for running without concern for the tilt lock failing
as well as potentual for trailering with the kicker attached outweighs
the simplicity of a simple transom extension. My transom already has
what I think is sufficient reinforcement so I'm not worried until I can get
the big 4 stroke monster jet as well. My kicker is standard shaft so there
should be no problem clearing the hull with a 12-14" lift. I don't want it
mounted so it sticks way down there to bang on things.

For guiding its definitely prefered to have the kicker steering in the
cockpit
as well as the shift and throttle if possible, but a such a full setup is
beyond
my means at the moment. Since the kicker is for trolling large pools/lakes
at
set speeds and distances where the electric would be impractical as well
as backup for the main I can see where the EZ-Steer could be sufficient.
In a situation where a kicker throttle and shifter might save a little
embarrassment
if your grates are clean you can simply fire the main up for 30 seconds to
get outta dodge.

Perhaps a used throttle /shifter off a 20-30 HP from a boat junkyard could
be
tricked up for the small kicker with the EZ-steer.

Which side is your kicker on? Who's your hull manufacturer and is your hull
otherwise hopped up for a jet (center chine removed, tunneled), whatcha got?
East/west coast? and yeah, that "inexperienced freind on board" isn't going
to
run the main. That could get you both killed in a sled, even on smooth water
let alone in the rock. Makes me nervous to let anyone else drive my jet,
though it looks cool on TV "skipping out" is not fun in the real world and
sucking crawdads is not good for your pump either...

Mudfish.

"Mudfish(Co30)" wrote

Thanks Cam;

That was very useful.

Your're welcome

Does your Garelick have the spring assist lift and
seperated left and right dropping bars, or are the dropping bars
immediately side by side?

I can't go out and look at it right now because boat is in shop. It is
spring assisted, because even when the kicker's on it, you have to really
push down on it to lower it and it raises itself. I just looked at the
Garelick site (www.garelick.com) and didn't really see anything that
directly corresponds to mine. Mine's probably from the mid 90s - the hull
was built in 96 I think and I'm thinking original owner put the bracket on
then. On the other hand, it's most like # 71090 and 71091 - most alike in
the handle configuration. The weight and horsepower rating is about the same
as well.

That will ID it for me. All of the makes I have
looked at appear to be pretty much the same design inclusive of the
slightly cludge lift mechanism.

I believe my mechanism, especially the latch part - is even kludgier. The
samples I mentioned above aren't exactly the same as mine, but closest.

If you haven't already, check out the Panther line. From what I've seen,
they're top notch too.

Having a lift to get the kicker prop guard
completely clear for running without concern for the tilt lock failing
as well as potentual for trailering with the kicker attached outweighs
the simplicity of a simple transom extension. My transom already has
what I think is sufficient reinforcement so I'm not worried until I can
get
the big 4 stroke monster jet as well. My kicker is standard shaft so there
should be no problem clearing the hull with a 12-14" lift. I don't want it
mounted so it sticks way down there to bang on things.

It works well for me.

For guiding its definitely prefered to have the kicker steering in the
cockpit
as well as the shift and throttle if possible, but a such a full setup is
beyond
my means at the moment. Since the kicker is for trolling large pools/lakes
at
set speeds and distances where the electric would be impractical as well
as backup for the main I can see where the EZ-Steer could be sufficient.
In a situation where a kicker throttle and shifter might save a little
embarrassment
if your grates are clean you can simply fire the main up for 30 seconds to
get outta dodge.

I'm getting so lazy that I often think my ideal kicker would be a 10-15 hp
miniature of my main engine (except prop, not jet) - little power lift, full
remote controls including electric start!

But, the set up with just the EZ steer works just fine for me. But this is
all among friends and family, I'm not guiding, but close to it. The driver
sits up front away from the hubub of fishing with the GPS speedo and tells
the fishers in back to up or down the speed a little depending on wind and
current. Or the fishers make independent command decision depending on the
attentiveness of the pilot and / or behavior of the tackle.

Perhaps a used throttle /shifter off a 20-30 HP from a boat junkyard could
be
tricked up for the small kicker with the EZ-steer.

I've got a spare remote control for an OMC from original boat set up - but I
removed it because it was just a bunch of stuff in the way and the kicker I
happened onto is a Merc. I haven't looked to see if it could be adapted to
the merc. But the system works OK for now. I really think the EZ steer is
a good deal.

Which side is your kicker on?

Unfortunately, this is something I really should change. Kicker is on
starbord side along with battery and driver. Doesn't really cause any
handling or trim probs because the boat is very wide, but it doesn't make
sense for me for all this stuff to be on the starboard. I don't know why
original owner did it except maybe didn't think it through - or maybe the
cables from the remote he had only would reach the starboard side?

Who's your hull manufacturer and is your hull
otherwise hopped up for a jet (center chine removed, tunneled), whatcha
got?
East/west coast? to

Locally built hull, custom for original owner. Not really hopped up or
optimized, but fairly well designed for a jet. But, I really think it was
designed with multipurpose use in mind - shallow river running as well as
bigger river water (not serious whitewater though) and occassional light
duty trolling. Which is what I do anyway.

It's a decent enough hull, and for the set up I ended up with (high HP
outboard jet engine, roominess, space to wt. ratio, accessories), the
package was affordable and suits us well. I've decided the only way to get
exactly what you want is to pay big bucks for new. It's hard to find on the
used market around here. My ideal is pretty much the ideal of others (20-22
ft, extra wide beam, 175+ HP OB jet) - the used market is full of starter
boats that didn't work out due to size or lack of adequate power. The
bigger, well powered boats just aren't sold! When you go the affordable
route, compromises must be made. I feel very lucky that this boat is about
90% of my vision at about 40%, maybe even 30% the price.

This boat has lot of interior space, shallow draft, but less than around
3500 lbs wet on the trailer (for towing rig I had at the time). It has a
covered V bow (as opposed to open walk thru bow or jon style), forward walk
thru windshield, 21 foot length, 72 inches at waterline. I really wanted a
large jon or open bow style, at the time, but now that I've used the closed
bow for a couple of seasons, it really has some significant advantages that
I'm coming to like.

I also like the large clear empty space aft of seating for easy packing,
hauling stuff and / or fishing. Not a flat bottom, but pretty shallow
deadrise where hull meets water. According to what I've read, (and once
measured on my boat, but now forget), the deadrise on this hull happens to
be in the range of what's considered good for OB jets. Quite a bit of
freeboard compared to a lot of river boats. Quicksilver scissors type power
lift ($$ - a plus for sure), no tunnel. SS impeller (another $$ plus).

It works well in skinny water - nice shallow draft when still, quick to pop
up on plane at slow speeds even with a load, very shallow draft on plane,
but not really a "sports car" in the handling dept. I have to slow pretty
much for corners to avoid ventilation (cavitation?) and sliding. But it
stays on step at low speeds, so I don't really complain. The wife and kids
actually feel more comfortable with that anyway. I've driven a lot of jet
boats that handle quite a bit better, and go faster straight and around
corners, but again, for the price it worked out well for us. I also have
the prop lower unit with SS prop for rare times I need it for deeper river
water and longer trips with heavy stuff.

This summer, I'll be tinkering with an experienced local boat
repairer/welder for some fairly cheap tweaks for handling - to reduce
cavitation around corners. This welder also does tunnel retro-fits, but
that would cost me more than I want to spend this year. And actually, he
told me today that he's had mixed results with the retrofitted tunnels.
He's curious about trying to work with me on some other solutions and has a
lot of experience to bring into it. Tweaks, not perfection. But this just
isn't a world class pure jet boat design, like others I'm familar with, but
a good compromise that suits the family, for the price.

What I've learned is that the major manufacturers of welded aluminum boats
really have advantages over even the most clever local guys because of
design expertise, experience, variety of materials available, and probably
jigs. A lot of guys think they can build a better boat, but with rare
exceptions, they cant.

My ideal might just be my neighbor's 20 ft, wide beamed, open bow Wooldridge
with the brand new big Honda. But he has serious payments, and I don't.
And for the usable interior square footage, his has quite a bit less for
about the same weight. Mine has more rear, totally uncluttered space and
freeboard (which I like for family functions as well as the ocean trolling).
That and the closed bow really works better for most of the stuff I do
anyway. But I believe his handles quite a bit better and is better built,
and of course has a brand new clean quiet Honda instead of a 20 year old
rebuilt OMC noisy, smelly gas hog! But frankly, his is a little
underpowered for all but light outings because he really couldn't afford the
engine he really needed.

and yeah, that "inexperienced freind on board" isn't going
run the main. That could get you both killed in a sled, even on smooth water
let alone in the rock. Makes me nervous to let anyone else drive my jet,
though it looks cool on TV "skipping out" is not fun in the real world and
sucking crawdads is not good for your pump either...

AND HOW. I know it's especially dangerous for someone who has done lake
boating who thinks they know boat handling. The newbies seem to do better.

Do you want to know about my brother in law's discovery of what happens to a
jet boat when you cut power AFTER you've discovered you entered the corner
too fast? This was a very nice little 5.7 L inboard jet (jetcraft) I had a
while back. What I learned was how far up the rocky bank the boat could go
and the value of a well built hull! =8-O My own fault for not being
attentive enough. But because of the Jetcraft incredible strength, and
fortunate lack of personal injuries, no harm, no foul. He was quite an
experienced lake boater who owns a nice I/O ski boat and has driven boats
since a kid - but never a jet boat on a winding river.

Enough!!

Cam

Thank again Cam...

No kidding.. put it on the bank did he....?
The laws of inertia and action = reaction
count heavy when running a jet. No thrust
pretty much means you go in a straight line.

Take care and keep it between the banks.

Muddy

Ahh if I could only afford that $38K Duckworth!!!
"Camilo" wrote in message
...
"Mudfish(Co30)" wrote

Thanks Cam;

That was very useful.

Your're welcome

Does your Garelick have the spring assist lift and
seperated left and right dropping bars, or are the dropping bars
immediately side by side?

I can't go out and look at it right now because boat is in shop. It is
spring assisted, because even when the kicker's on it, you have to really
push down on it to lower it and it raises itself. I just looked at the
Garelick site (www.garelick.com) and didn't really see anything that
directly corresponds to mine. Mine's probably from the mid 90s - the hull
was built in 96 I think and I'm thinking original owner put the bracket on
then. On the other hand, it's most like # 71090 and 71091 - most alike in
the handle configuration. The weight and horsepower rating is about the
same
as well.

That will ID it for me. All of the makes I have
looked at appear to be pretty much the same design inclusive of the
slightly cludge lift mechanism.

I believe my mechanism, especially the latch part - is even kludgier. The
samples I mentioned above aren't exactly the same as mine, but closest.

If you haven't already, check out the Panther line. From what I've seen,
they're top notch too.

Having a lift to get the kicker prop guard
completely clear for running without concern for the tilt lock failing
as well as potentual for trailering with the kicker attached outweighs
the simplicity of a simple transom extension. My transom already has
what I think is sufficient reinforcement so I'm not worried until I can
get
the big 4 stroke monster jet as well. My kicker is standard shaft so
there
should be no problem clearing the hull with a 12-14" lift. I don't want
it
mounted so it sticks way down there to bang on things.

It works well for me.

For guiding its definitely prefered to have the kicker steering in the
cockpit
as well as the shift and throttle if possible, but a such a full setup
is
beyond
my means at the moment. Since the kicker is for trolling large
pools/lakes
at
set speeds and distances where the electric would be impractical as well
as backup for the main I can see where the EZ-Steer could be sufficient.
In a situation where a kicker throttle and shifter might save a little
embarrassment
if your grates are clean you can simply fire the main up for 30 seconds
to
get outta dodge.

I'm getting so lazy that I often think my ideal kicker would be a 10-15 hp
miniature of my main engine (except prop, not jet) - little power lift,
full
remote controls including electric start!

But, the set up with just the EZ steer works just fine for me. But this
is
all among friends and family, I'm not guiding, but close to it. The
driver
sits up front away from the hubub of fishing with the GPS speedo and tells
the fishers in back to up or down the speed a little depending on wind and
current. Or the fishers make independent command decision depending on
the
attentiveness of the pilot and / or behavior of the tackle.

Perhaps a used throttle /shifter off a 20-30 HP from a boat junkyard
could
be
tricked up for the small kicker with the EZ-steer.

I've got a spare remote control for an OMC from original boat set up - but
I
removed it because it was just a bunch of stuff in the way and the kicker
I
happened onto is a Merc. I haven't looked to see if it could be adapted
to
the merc. But the system works OK for now. I really think the EZ steer
is
a good deal.

Which side is your kicker on?

Unfortunately, this is something I really should change. Kicker is on
starbord side along with battery and driver. Doesn't really cause any
handling or trim probs because the boat is very wide, but it doesn't make
sense for me for all this stuff to be on the starboard. I don't know why
original owner did it except maybe didn't think it through - or maybe the
cables from the remote he had only would reach the starboard side?

Who's your hull manufacturer and is your hull
otherwise hopped up for a jet (center chine removed, tunneled), whatcha
got?
East/west coast? to

Locally built hull, custom for original owner. Not really hopped up or
optimized, but fairly well designed for a jet. But, I really think it was
designed with multipurpose use in mind - shallow river running as well as
bigger river water (not serious whitewater though) and occassional light
duty trolling. Which is what I do anyway.

It's a decent enough hull, and for the set up I ended up with (high HP
outboard jet engine, roominess, space to wt. ratio, accessories), the
package was affordable and suits us well. I've decided the only way to
get
exactly what you want is to pay big bucks for new. It's hard to find on
the
used market around here. My ideal is pretty much the ideal of others
(20-22
ft, extra wide beam, 175+ HP OB jet) - the used market is full of starter
boats that didn't work out due to size or lack of adequate power. The
bigger, well powered boats just aren't sold! When you go the affordable
route, compromises must be made. I feel very lucky that this boat is
about
90% of my vision at about 40%, maybe even 30% the price.

This boat has lot of interior space, shallow draft, but less than around
3500 lbs wet on the trailer (for towing rig I had at the time). It has a
covered V bow (as opposed to open walk thru bow or jon style), forward
walk
thru windshield, 21 foot length, 72 inches at waterline. I really wanted
a
large jon or open bow style, at the time, but now that I've used the
closed
bow for a couple of seasons, it really has some significant advantages
that
I'm coming to like.

I also like the large clear empty space aft of seating for easy packing,
hauling stuff and / or fishing. Not a flat bottom, but pretty shallow
deadrise where hull meets water. According to what I've read, (and once
measured on my boat, but now forget), the deadrise on this hull happens to
be in the range of what's considered good for OB jets. Quite a bit of
freeboard compared to a lot of river boats. Quicksilver scissors type
power
lift ($$ - a plus for sure), no tunnel. SS impeller (another $$ plus).

It works well in skinny water - nice shallow draft when still, quick to
pop
up on plane at slow speeds even with a load, very shallow draft on plane,
but not really a "sports car" in the handling dept. I have to slow pretty
much for corners to avoid ventilation (cavitation?) and sliding. But it
stays on step at low speeds, so I don't really complain. The wife and
kids
actually feel more comfortable with that anyway. I've driven a lot of jet
boats that handle quite a bit better, and go faster straight and around
corners, but again, for the price it worked out well for us. I also have
the prop lower unit with SS prop for rare times I need it for deeper river
water and longer trips with heavy stuff.

This summer, I'll be tinkering with an experienced local boat
repairer/welder for some fairly cheap tweaks for handling - to reduce
cavitation around corners. This welder also does tunnel retro-fits, but
that would cost me more than I want to spend this year. And actually, he
told me today that he's had mixed results with the retrofitted tunnels.
He's curious about trying to work with me on some other solutions and has
a
lot of experience to bring into it. Tweaks, not perfection. But this
just
isn't a world class pure jet boat design, like others I'm familar with,
but
a good compromise that suits the family, for the price.

What I've learned is that the major manufacturers of welded aluminum boats
really have advantages over even the most clever local guys because of
design expertise, experience, variety of materials available, and probably
jigs. A lot of guys think they can build a better boat, but with rare
exceptions, they cant.

My ideal might just be my neighbor's 20 ft, wide beamed, open bow
Wooldridge
with the brand new big Honda. But he has serious payments, and I don't.
And for the usable interior square footage, his has quite a bit less for
about the same weight. Mine has more rear, totally uncluttered space and
freeboard (which I like for family functions as well as the ocean
trolling).
That and the closed bow really works better for most of the stuff I do
anyway. But I believe his handles quite a bit better and is better built,
and of course has a brand new clean quiet Honda instead of a 20 year old
rebuilt OMC noisy, smelly gas hog! But frankly, his is a little
underpowered for all but light outings because he really couldn't afford
the
engine he really needed.

and yeah, that "inexperienced freind on board" isn't going
run the main. That could get you both killed in a sled, even on smooth
water
let alone in the rock. Makes me nervous to let anyone else drive my jet,
though it looks cool on TV "skipping out" is not fun in the real world
and
sucking crawdads is not good for your pump either...

AND HOW. I know it's especially dangerous for someone who has done lake
boating who thinks they know boat handling. The newbies seem to do
better.

Do you want to know about my brother in law's discovery of what happens to
a
jet boat when you cut power AFTER you've discovered you entered the corner
too fast? This was a very nice little 5.7 L inboard jet (jetcraft) I had
a
while back. What I learned was how far up the rocky bank the boat could
go
and the value of a well built hull! =8-O My own fault for not being
attentive enough. But because of the Jetcraft incredible strength, and
fortunate lack of personal injuries, no harm, no foul. He was quite an
experienced lake boater who owns a nice I/O ski boat and has driven boats
since a kid - but never a jet boat on a winding river.

Enough!!

Cam

I run a Yamaha T-8 with the built in power tilt. I have a Jetcraft
Bluewater 21' and inboard jet. Very similar to your desired Duckworth. Has
the 35" sides for ocean and bay fishing also. So weight is about 3200# wet
and the T-8 is a tiller steer. I understand someone is making a unit to
attach to the I/B Kodiak/ Hamilton jet unit to steer from the console. To
cheap to spend $2k for a TR-1. Most of the river guides are running the
power tilt, with prop guards on the motor. Mine is attached to welded solid
bracket on the transom. Used to have an OMC bracket with a Mariner 15HP 2
stroke and broke two of those brackets.
Bill

"Mudfish(Co30)" wrote in message
...

"Camilo" wrote in message
...
"Mudfish(Co30)" wrote

I have an 18.5 Reedcraft shallow draft all welded
aluminum fish and ski with a Merc 80 Jet
I use for mostly guiding rocky rivers here in Maine.

then described a few options he's considering...

"Steve Alexanderson"

Idon'tlikegreeneggsandspamIdon'tlikethemsamIamsal
wrote

All the commercial aux brackets I looked at say to remove motor for
trailering, which they seem to think is more stressful than bouncing
off
the
waves. I ended up having my local weld shop reinforce my transom and
weld
a
custom bracket to it. Very solid, and no possibility of vibrating
loose
either on the road or the water. To this I bolted a Bracket Pro
http://www.hnet.net/~bracketpro/ to take the stress off the motor's
latch
when tilted up.

I also have a welded hull shalow draft boat with a large jet outboard
and
a
kicker bracket. I have a ~ 75 lb 10 hp short shaft kicker with a
fairly
substantial "skeg guard" on the kicker. The bracket (which came with
the
used boat) is rated to something like 140 lbs and/or 35 hp? Anyway,
it's
definitely oversized for my motor. The original owner, I believe, had a
kicker in that (larger) range because he had it set up with electric
start
and remote controls. A couple of comments

First, like Steve said, the bracket says don't trailer with the motor
attached. I''v ignored that from time to time, havimg decided that the
light weight motor on the heavy duty braket would be OK. And it has
been.
My opinion was that the travel I've done over the waves is as bad or
similar
to the stresses over the road, so far so good, but YMMV. Also, I had my
transom reinforced because there were appearing some superficial stress
cracking (not structural) from the main motor without kicker - or maybe
it
was from original owner's larger kicker? I don't know because I don't
know
if original owner trailered with kicker on bracket. Anyway, when I had
the
reinforcement done, I told the boat builder that I wanted it to be
strong
enough to be worry-proof - to handle the main engine, the kicker and be
strong enough in the future to accomodate the big 4 stroke I dream about
converting to 8-).

My kicker bracket is Garelick brand. I won't describe it in detail, but
you
can raise the bracket enough so the kicker is out of the water without
tilting the kicker. This is handy because I don't have to worry about
the
tilt-lock jarring loose like the original poster worried about. I can
safely trailer with kicker in locked down position. On the water, I
just
raise the bracket and lock the motor in the down position to prevent
bouncing around when I'm underway with the main engine. For trailering,
I
bungee it in the down position

The Garelick isn't the easiest to use - as far as it's up and down
mechanism, but once I got the hang of it, it works fine. I have to
"teach"
partners how to do it because it's not totally idiot proof. The bracket
itself is very well made of appropriate materials. Structurally, I have
total faith in it. But, if I had it to do over, I'd look at other
brands.
It would be a good idea to "test" them with a kicker in place because
the
weight of the kicker affects how it works. For example, my bracket is
actually quite difficult to move up and down without weight on it. It's
pretty easy with weight. Think in terms of how easy it would be for an
inexperienced friend to make it work - because that's one thing an
inexperienced friend could do for you on board (as opposed to starting
and
running the main motor).

The only down side is that kicker operation would be better if it were
long
shaft, I think (just a guess - haven't tried a long shaft yet). I don't
know if the bracket would raise a long shaft kicker far enough out of
the
water to avoid tilting it.

One final note - I use an "EZ Steer" linkage to my main motor to steer
it.
I don't have remote conttols for the kicker, but just having the
steering
mechanism is a great feature. I tried using the tiller and a tiller
extention, but I found it better for my purposes to have the steering
away
from the fishing area. I'm working on hooking up a remote control to
make
it even better. Again, YMMV.

Hope this helps.
Cam



Thanks Cam;

That was very useful. Does your Garelick have the spring assist lift and
seperated left and right dropping bars, or are the dropping bars
immediately side by side? That will ID it for me. All of the makes I have
looked at appear to be pretty much the same design inclusive of the
slightly cludge lift mechanism. Having a lift to get the kicker prop guard
completely clear for running without concern for the tilt lock failing
as well as potentual for trailering with the kicker attached outweighs
the simplicity of a simple transom extension. My transom already has
what I think is sufficient reinforcement so I'm not worried until I can
get
the big 4 stroke monster jet as well. My kicker is standard shaft so there
should be no problem clearing the hull with a 12-14" lift. I don't want it
mounted so it sticks way down there to bang on things.

For guiding its definitely prefered to have the kicker steering in the
cockpit
as well as the shift and throttle if possible, but a such a full setup is
beyond
my means at the moment. Since the kicker is for trolling large pools/lakes
at
set speeds and distances where the electric would be impractical as well
as backup for the main I can see where the EZ-Steer could be sufficient.
In a situation where a kicker throttle and shifter might save a little
embarrassment
if your grates are clean you can simply fire the main up for 30 seconds to
get outta dodge.

Perhaps a used throttle /shifter off a 20-30 HP from a boat junkyard could
be
tricked up for the small kicker with the EZ-steer.

Which side is your kicker on? Who's your hull manufacturer and is your
hull
otherwise hopped up for a jet (center chine removed, tunneled), whatcha
got?
East/west coast? and yeah, that "inexperienced freind on board" isn't
going
to
run the main. That could get you both killed in a sled, even on smooth
water
let alone in the rock. Makes me nervous to let anyone else drive my jet,
though it looks cool on TV "skipping out" is not fun in the real world and
sucking crawdads is not good for your pump either...

Mudfish.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
I run a Yamaha T-8 with the built in power tilt. I have a Jetcraft
Bluewater 21' and inboard jet. Very similar to your desired Duckworth.
Has
the 35" sides for ocean and bay fishing also. So weight is about 3200#
wet
and the T-8 is a tiller steer. I understand someone is making a unit to
attach to the I/B Kodiak/ Hamilton jet unit to steer from the console. To
cheap to spend $2k for a TR-1. Most of the river guides are running the
power tilt, with prop guards on the motor. Mine is attached to welded
solid
bracket on the transom. Used to have an OMC bracket with a Mariner 15HP 2
stroke and broke two of those brackets.
Bill

Hey Bill - you might check out the EZ steer. They have fittings for a
variety of jet pumps and from my personal knowledge of how well they adapt
to various set ups, it would be worth a look on their web site and/or a
phone call. As I've said before, ad-nauseum, it's a design that works very
well for me and others I know who use it. They have also been very helpful
by email and phone and I'd be surprised if they couldn't discuss your
particular pump with authority.

Cam

I was thinking the EZ Steer was the link between an outboard and the
Outdrive or another outboard. Maybe that is the one Galaxi Marine said
would work with the Kodiak. Do they have a website?
Bill

"Camilo" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
I run a Yamaha T-8 with the built in power tilt. I have a Jetcraft
Bluewater 21' and inboard jet. Very similar to your desired Duckworth.
Has
the 35" sides for ocean and bay fishing also. So weight is about 3200#
wet
and the T-8 is a tiller steer. I understand someone is making a unit to
attach to the I/B Kodiak/ Hamilton jet unit to steer from the console.
To
cheap to spend $2k for a TR-1. Most of the river guides are running the
power tilt, with prop guards on the motor. Mine is attached to welded
solid
bracket on the transom. Used to have an OMC bracket with a Mariner 15HP
2
stroke and broke two of those brackets.
Bill

Hey Bill - you might check out the EZ steer. They have fittings for a
variety of jet pumps and from my personal knowledge of how well they adapt
to various set ups, it would be worth a look on their web site and/or a
phone call. As I've said before, ad-nauseum, it's a design that works
very
well for me and others I know who use it. They have also been very
helpful
by email and phone and I'd be surprised if they couldn't discuss your
particular pump with authority.

Cam

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
hlink.net...
I was thinking the EZ Steer was the link between an outboard and the
Outdrive or another outboard. Maybe that is the one Galaxi Marine said
would work with the Kodiak. Do they have a website?
Bill

www.ezsteer.com Yes, EZ steer is the one works between an outboard kicker
and a main engine (commonly another outboard) - at the rear, from lower
unit-lower unit as opposed to some set ups that connect in the front of
both engines, via the main steering cable/rod..

Outboard-sterndrive connections are the same for the kicker, but the
sterndrive fitting works off the horizontal part of the sterndrive.

On their site, they specifically say they have fittings for jet pump
applications. Looking at my EZSteer, and putting my imagination to work
thinking of a past life with I/B Jet, and how I've seen them work with the
horizontal part of a stern drive - my educated guess is that they would be
able to fit virtually any I/B jet I'm familiar with, but I've never actually
done it. My guess is that the fitting to a horizontal jet pump is just a
variation of the fitting to a stern drive.

What they sell is a self-adjusting connector bar (pretty much the same for
all applications), and then fittings specifically for your kicker and main
engine - depending on make, model, size, lower unit shape, etc.

Cam



"Camilo" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...
I run a Yamaha T-8 with the built in power tilt. I have a Jetcraft
Bluewater 21' and inboard jet. Very similar to your desired
Duckworth.
Has
the 35" sides for ocean and bay fishing also. So weight is about
3200#
wet
and the T-8 is a tiller steer. I understand someone is making a unit
to
attach to the I/B Kodiak/ Hamilton jet unit to steer from the console.
To
cheap to spend $2k for a TR-1. Most of the river guides are running
the
power tilt, with prop guards on the motor. Mine is attached to welded
solid
bracket on the transom. Used to have an OMC bracket with a Mariner
15HP
2
stroke and broke two of those brackets.
Bill

Hey Bill - you might check out the EZ steer. They have fittings for a
variety of jet pumps and from my personal knowledge of how well they
adapt
to various set ups, it would be worth a look on their web site and/or a
phone call. As I've said before, ad-nauseum, it's a design that works
very
well for me and others I know who use it. They have also been very
helpful
by email and phone and I'd be surprised if they couldn't discuss your
particular pump with authority.

Cam