I live in central Ohio, and spend much of my time on reservoirs populated by
power boats, sail boats, and jet-skis. The bottom line for a kayaker is
that YOU have to take responsibility for yourself. When boating at night, I
have red-green bow lights (forward and sides), white stern lights, a
headlamp, and reflective striping and piping EVERYWHERE I CAN PUT IT. I
want to be lit up like a Christmas tree!! My experience from talking to
power boaters on occasion is that the reflective striping is the best thing
I have. I have it on my PFD, my hat, my paddle, and on both boats' sides
and back. The lights you mentioned the police boat having could not
POSSIBLY have missed me!

An 8 foot wave is nothing for either of my kayaks, a Perception America
("recreation boat") and a Current Designs Caribou S (a serious sea kayak),
if ***I*** am capable and prepared to deal with it FROM ANY QUARTER. I
approach kayaking much like I did motorcycling when I was younger --- hit
ANYTHING and I lose. In addition to being lit up at night, I keep a
constant look out for "rogue" powerboats, and stay PREPARED for anything
they can do.

Please understand that I do sympathize with you for your injuries, but it
does not sound (from all the discussion I've read) like you were either
aware of boating regulations for your area or well-enough prepared for any
contingency that could be expected as a boater. I doubt that you have much
redress, and can only hope that you learn from the experience.

Best wishes,

Jim Hill

James Hill wrote:
I live in central Ohio, and spend much of my time on reservoirs populated by
power boats, sail boats, and jet-skis. The bottom line for a kayaker is
that YOU have to take responsibility for yourself. When boating at night, I
have red-green bow lights (forward and sides), white stern lights, a
headlamp, and reflective striping and piping EVERYWHERE I CAN PUT IT. I
want to be lit up like a Christmas tree!! My experience from talking to
power boaters on occasion is that the reflective striping is the best thing
I have. I have it on my PFD, my hat, my paddle, and on both boats' sides
and back. The lights you mentioned the police boat having could not
POSSIBLY have missed me!

Of course not! But if it had, it would have been entirely your fault,
your responsibility, eh?

An 8 foot wave is nothing for either of my kayaks, a Perception America
("recreation boat") and a Current Designs Caribou S (a serious sea kayak),
if ***I*** am capable and prepared to deal with it FROM ANY QUARTER. I
approach kayaking much like I did motorcycling when I was younger --- hit
ANYTHING and I lose. In addition to being lit up at night, I keep a
constant look out for "rogue" powerboats, and stay PREPARED for anything
they can do.

Well, if it's a matter of individual skill and equipment, that's one
thing. The other thing remains, however, the one about where
powerboats are supposed to be if non-motorcraft are supposed to be
hugging the shore.

Please understand that I do sympathize with you for your injuries, but it
does not sound (from all the discussion I've read) like you were either
aware of boating regulations for your area or well-enough prepared for any
contingency that could be expected as a boater. I doubt that you have much
redress, and can only hope that you learn from the experience.

Best wishes,

Jim Hill

There is theory, and there is practice.

In practice, I will carry a ****ing bomb now so anyone who hits me goes
sky high, too! Now lemme see where rec.demolitions is on this news
server....

Oh, as for the theory -- well, that's funny, no one's said anything at
all so far on rec.boats.paddle! Guess the know-it-alls at God's right
ear over on soc.al.quaeda can advise.

On 28-Jul-2005, "NYC XYZ" wrote:

Oh, as for the theory -- well, that's funny, no one's said anything at
all so far on rec.boats.paddle!

You obviously don't know how to use Usenet either. Several of us have
posted from rec.boats.paddle.

Mike

Snipe, snipe, snipe...this is your idea of usenet, huh?

Just say you don't have a ****ing clue where motorboats are supposed to
be on the river. Better yet, just shut your ass up and open the
windows.

It ain't complicated. You either want to answer the question, or you
go off on your own tangents -- in which case you should just start your
own damned thread.


And remember, flush.



Michael Daly wrote:
On 28-Jul-2005, "NYC XYZ" wrote:

Oh, as for the theory -- well, that's funny, no one's said anything at
all so far on rec.boats.paddle!

You obviously don't know how to use Usenet either. Several of us have
posted from rec.boats.paddle.

Mike

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:53:13 GMT, Adam Price
wrote:


As a side note, I called the cops after a break-in a few months ago.
They sent four cars, which were here about 9 minutes after I chased the
guy out of my kitchen. Before they came to interview me, they turned
off their headlights off and raced up and and down the streets near my
house with only their spotlights on. I saw them do the same thing about
three weeks later when a neighbor's house was entered. Apparently they
are trying to surprise the bad guys. If they were to hit someone who was lying in the road with low visibility, I would feel bad for the guy, but I would think it was his fault.


Actually, the cops would be at fault here. The police are allowed to
ignore vehicle and traffic law in the course of duty, but they are
responsible for the consequences. If they didn't see the guy because
their lights were out, they were at fault.


Phil
======
visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website:
http://www.hbd.org/nychg

NYC XYZ wrote:
BCITORGB wrote:


C'mon! You've had a gazillion answers (all very good, IMHO). Yet you
keep coming back with a "Yeah, but...."


I asked where a paddler can expect to be if the middle of the river is
reserved for motorboats,

Who the hell ever said the middle of the river is reserved for motor boats?


yet they also can race right up the shoreline.

The reply I get is that it's my responsibility to be visible to them.

A response isn't the same as an answer.


In my experience, the "yeah, but..." response, reiterated a gazillion
times, is indicative of someone who really doesn't want an answer, but
would rather flog a dead horse.


It is my experience that those who claim to give an answer but don't
aren't looking to understand and help but to gloat and feel superior.

NYC XYZ wrote:
What I'd specifically asked was where a paddler's supposed to be if the
middle of the river is for motorcraft and yet the shoreline's also
evidently available to them.

What I'd specifically asked was whether a motorcraft was allowed to
race up along the shoreline in darkness.


Unless they are exceeding a posted speed limit or it is a no wake area,
yes, they are allowed to use the whole river.



What I'm told is they obviously didn't see you so it's your fault.

Do you folks drive this way, too? You didn't see the other car, so
it's obviously not your fault??


No "advice" given, you see.



doug roberts wrote:

youve been given good advise, heed it and take some sort of boating course
that teaches you where you can improve your safety practices
Doug
Master Mariner

Adam Price wrote:


Yes: i) if it is less than 25 meters in breadth, one all-round white
light at or near each end; Visible for 2 Miles.

If you would care to read the rules of inland navigation, you will see
that what people have said over and over is true. You are at fault.

http://www.boats.com/reeds/jsp/rn_ch_1_l_c.jsp

Read rules B9, B6, and C22.

FIRST IT WAS ABOUT WHAT WAS I DOING OUT THERE.

THEN IT WAS, DID I HAVE MY LIGHTS.

NOW IT IS, ARE THEY VISIBLE TWO MILES EITHER DIRECTION.

WHAT IF THEY WERE? WHAT OTHER EXCUSE WILL YOU ****ERS COME UP WITH?

As a side note, I called the cops after a break-in a few months ago.
They sent four cars, which were here about 9 minutes after I chased the
guy out of my kitchen. Before they came to interview me, they turned
off their headlights off and raced up and and down the streets near my
house with only their spotlights on. I saw them do the same thing about
three weeks later when a neighbor's house was entered. Apparently they
are trying to surprise the bad guys. If they were to hit someone who was lying in the road with low visibility, I would feel bad for the guy, but I would think it was his fault.

YOU WANNA BET? YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO IDEA HOW MANY MILLIONS NYC PAYS
OUT EACH YEAR BECAUSE OF ITS COPS.

YOU CAN'T EVEN FIRE AT A FLEEING SUSPECT UNLESS YOU ARE SURE HE IS
ARMED...WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THE COPS WON'T BE FOUND LIABLE FOR
RECKLESS DRIVING?

I HOPE THEY RAID YOU WITH SOME FLASH GRENADES TOO.

-A

In article .com,
NYC XYZ wrote:

Adam Price wrote:


Yes: i) if it is less than 25 meters in breadth, one all-round white
light at or near each end; Visible for 2 Miles.

If you would care to read the rules of inland navigation, you will see
that what people have said over and over is true. You are at fault.

http://www.boats.com/reeds/jsp/rn_ch_1_l_c.jsp

Read rules B9, B6, and C22.

FIRST IT WAS ABOUT WHAT WAS I DOING OUT THERE.


You were frustrated. You asked for specific legal answers. I gave tyou
a place to read them (so you wouldn't have to parse my interpretation of
them) You wrote in all-caps and swore at me. I kill-file you. I
recommend that everyone else does to. The sport will lose nothing if
this guy quits. If he keeps at it, he'll get himself killed doing
soething stupid and the rest of us will have to deal with regulatory
backlash from a frightened general public.


*PLONK*

in article , NYC XYZ at
wrote on 8/1/05 12:06 AM:


Chicago Paddling-Fishing wrote:


If someone was bearing down on me... my strobe would be on, and I'd make some
motion...

That's quite besides the point...if it were you, I suppose you'd pray,
too -- geez, why didn't I think of that!

If they didn't see, they didn't see. Don't think waving would have
helped.

Finally. I was trying to get you to this days ago!

They didn't see you.

Your only option is therefore to find ways to make yourself more seen.
Ranting and raving about whether or not the police boat should have been
there doing what it was doing is not going to do a thing about ensuring your
future safety.