On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 07:00:36 -0400, thunder wrote:

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:50:44 -0400, PocoLoco wrote:


Amen to that! Another "Thank You" for Canada.

And at least 24 other countries:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...from_abroa d/

Thanks, Thunder. I was looking for this yesterday, but couldn't find a list of
countries and offers.

I especially like the last line, which seems to be the general liberal viewpoint
on this group:

"Later, Chavez told Venezuelan television that Bush was a ''cowboy" and the
''king of vacations" who had failed to evacuate the population of New Orleans
before the hurricane hit."

....as though Bush could force evacuations!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:15:25 -0400, PocoLoco wrote:


...as though Bush could force evacuations!

Uh, actually he could. I'm not saying he should have, but he definitely
could have.

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:41:46 -0400, thunder wrote:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:15:25 -0400, PocoLoco wrote:


...as though Bush could force evacuations!

Uh, actually he could. I'm not saying he should have, but he definitely
could have.

By declaring the Gulf Coast under a state of martial law? What about
enforcement? Could he, on his own, send in the US Army to enforce the law? Am I
totally wrong about the Posse Comitatus Act?
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:09:53 -0400, PocoLoco wrote:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:41:46 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:15:25 -0400, PocoLoco wrote:


...as though Bush could force evacuations!

Uh, actually he could. I'm not saying he should have, but he definitely
could have.

By declaring the Gulf Coast under a state of martial law? What about
enforcement? Could he, on his own, send in the US Army to enforce the law?
Am I totally wrong about the Posse Comitatus Act?

No, but you are limiting a President's options. He could have declared a
State of Emergency, federalized some National Guard units, and evacuated
New Orleans. Look, I'm not putting the blame for New Orleans on President
Bush. Everyone would like to see the suffering ended, but there is no
magic wand. The devastation is incredible, and of a huge magnitude. New
Orleans seems to be getting the major focus, but it is not the only
location devastated. This bureaucracy may be a little slow, but when it
comes to natural disasters I believe it does a pretty damn good job.

If I were to find fault, after the fact, it would be with New Orleans
evacuation planning, knowing full well that this was a probability.
Unfortunately, it wasn't a question of if, but when New Orleans was going
to take the hit.

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 20:21:37 -0400, thunder wrote:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 19:09:53 -0400, PocoLoco wrote:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:41:46 -0400, thunder
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:15:25 -0400, PocoLoco wrote:


...as though Bush could force evacuations!

Uh, actually he could. I'm not saying he should have, but he definitely
could have.

By declaring the Gulf Coast under a state of martial law? What about
enforcement? Could he, on his own, send in the US Army to enforce the law?
Am I totally wrong about the Posse Comitatus Act?

No, but you are limiting a President's options. He could have declared a
State of Emergency, federalized some National Guard units, and evacuated
New Orleans.

How? Is he suppose to use federalized National Guard units, which are now part
of the US Armed Forces, as law enforcement officers? Why didn't the governor of
Louisiana do that? Do you really think Bush, at the very onset, should have
overridden the authority of the governor?

Look, I'm not putting the blame for New Orleans on President
Bush. Everyone would like to see the suffering ended, but there is no
magic wand. The devastation is incredible, and of a huge magnitude. New
Orleans seems to be getting the major focus, but it is not the only
location devastated. This bureaucracy may be a little slow, but when it
comes to natural disasters I believe it does a pretty damn good job.

I agree. But in this case there are some pretty damn good reasons for the
slowness. Just look at the map of available roads in and out of NO.

If I were to find fault, after the fact, it would be with New Orleans
evacuation planning, knowing full well that this was a probability.
Unfortunately, it wasn't a question of if, but when New Orleans was going
to take the hit.

First responders are supposed to do just that, respond first. They're not
supposed to run, but I guess it's OK if the mayor has already run.

One does not start relief efforts without coordinating with the folks on the
scene. In this case, the folks on the scene had left!
--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

WaIIy wrote:
Martial law or not, he can't use Regular Army troops.

Really? Did somebody forget to tell that to Presidents Hoover,
Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, & Reagan? They all used Army troops to put
down civil disturbances.

Go back to your partisan back-biting and high-fiving with your other
Bush-Cheney cheerleader pals.

DSK

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 22:40:27 -0400, DSK wrote:

WaIIy wrote:
Martial law or not, he can't use Regular Army troops.

Really? Did somebody forget to tell that to Presidents Hoover,
Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, & Reagan? They all used Army troops to put
down civil disturbances.

Go back to your partisan back-biting and high-fiving with your other
Bush-Cheney cheerleader pals.

DSK

Did *they* use active army forces, or did the governors use their national guard
units?

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

Martial law or not, he can't use Regular Army troops.


Really? Did somebody forget to tell that to Presidents Hoover,
Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, & Reagan? They all used Army troops to put
down civil disturbances.




PocoLoco wrote:
Did *they* use active army forces, or did the governors use their national guard
units?


Are you one-a them ****in' ree-tards, boy? If you don't know basic
American history... especially history that has happened in major
headlines within your adult lifetime... what is your excuse?

In the case of Eisenhower- he both served in a regular Army unit
deployed inside the US to suppress disorder:

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/snprelief4.htm

he also ordered the U.S. Army (the 82nd Airborne IIRC) to enforce
desegregation orders over the objection of the governor... and there was
potential for that governor (whose name you probably know and have
cheered) to order the National Guard units to fight the US Army.

So... yeah, the President can... if he's got the brains and/or the
balls. There are very good reasons for making it difficult for the
President to order regular military to conduct operations inside the
borders... but when the time comes, a decision needs to be MADE.

Face facts.

DSK

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:58:18 -0400, DSK wrote:

Martial law or not, he can't use Regular Army troops.


Really? Did somebody forget to tell that to Presidents Hoover,
Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, & Reagan? They all used Army troops to put
down civil disturbances.




PocoLoco wrote:
Did *they* use active army forces, or did the governors use their national guard
units?


Are you one-a them ****in' ree-tards, boy? If you don't know basic
American history... especially history that has happened in major
headlines within your adult lifetime... what is your excuse?

In the case of Eisenhower- he both served in a regular Army unit
deployed inside the US to suppress disorder:

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/snprelief4.htm

he also ordered the U.S. Army (the 82nd Airborne IIRC) to enforce
desegregation orders over the objection of the governor... and there was
potential for that governor (whose name you probably know and have
cheered) to order the National Guard units to fight the US Army.

So... yeah, the President can... if he's got the brains and/or the
balls. There are very good reasons for making it difficult for the
President to order regular military to conduct operations inside the
borders... but when the time comes, a decision needs to be MADE.

Face facts.

DSK

Wow, 1924, Washington DC. Wonder if DC even *had* it's own guard then?

I can imagine the uproar if the President had invaded New Orleans to establish
martial law. Could he have? Probably. Getting rid of the inept local governments
would undoubtedly speed up the process.

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 08:34:23 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:

PocoLoco wrote:
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:58:18 -0400, DSK wrote:

Martial law or not, he can't use Regular Army troops.
Really? Did somebody forget to tell that to Presidents Hoover,
Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, & Reagan? They all used Army troops to put
down civil disturbances.



PocoLoco wrote:
Did *they* use active army forces, or did the governors use their national guard
units?

Are you one-a them ****in' ree-tards, boy? If you don't know basic
American history... especially history that has happened in major
headlines within your adult lifetime... what is your excuse?

In the case of Eisenhower- he both served in a regular Army unit
deployed inside the US to suppress disorder:

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/snprelief4.htm

he also ordered the U.S. Army (the 82nd Airborne IIRC) to enforce
desegregation orders over the objection of the governor... and there was
potential for that governor (whose name you probably know and have
cheered) to order the National Guard units to fight the US Army.

So... yeah, the President can... if he's got the brains and/or the
balls. There are very good reasons for making it difficult for the
President to order regular military to conduct operations inside the
borders... but when the time comes, a decision needs to be MADE.

Face facts.

DSK

Wow, 1924, Washington DC. Wonder if DC even *had* it's own guard then?

I can imagine the uproar if the President had invaded New Orleans to establish
martial law. Could he have? Probably. Getting rid of the inept local governments
would undoubtedly speed up the process.



Getting rid of the inept Bush Adminstration would have made a bigger
difference.

I must say, Herring, your level of compassion for the poor people who
are suffering in NO is just...underwhelming.


Do Bush-bashing and the hurling of fabrications make you a compassionate person,
Harry?

Think Christmas, Harry. Think geese.

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."