So I played hooky yesterday afternoon and went to a boat dealer. I
wanted to know how much a new boat cost. I know, "if you have to
ask..." The last time I'd been to a dealer I was looking for a live-
aboard in Southern California in 1984. Even though I was young and
poor, I was treated with respect and consideration. Much has changed.

I went to Leader's Marine, on M43 in Kalamazoo. There were only a
couple of boats to look at, no sales people, no prices. We crawled
around a couple of show boats, then walked through the used boats in the
back guessing at length and price. Finally someone noticed us and told
us that the inventory and salesmen were at a free boat show at Wings
Stadium, and that we were looking at the boats there for service.

Boats seem to go in for service a lot.

It turns out the two dealers next to each other (D&R and Leader's) put
their inventory in a parking lot of the stadium and put colored flags
around the area. No bathrooms. BUT we got to look at a bunch of boats.

Including the Wellcraft Martinique 2400. Sigh. SWMBO* loved it.
Finally a new price for a boat I want: about $40K

We started rationalizing: "OK, if our payments are $350, and our yearly
budget for the boat is $10K, we can still dock it, insure it, put gas in
it, and buy some safety equipment." I'm trying to pretend that the
Durango can pull it, since the dry weight is at the maximum tow weight.
I'd need to loose a couple of hundred pounds or wear helium in order to
meet the GCVW criteria, but we're rationalizing here.

Then I met the dealer. Feh. We were walking away from The Boat and
looking at the pontoon boats. I said to SWMBO, "They're not for Lake
Michigan, but they would be great on a smaller lake if we had a house on
one."

The sales guy introduced himself by arguing with me. "You can take
those out on Lake Michigan". "In the chop?" "Sure."

OK buddy. I see lots of those from my house.

Then we discussed The Boat. At this point he could have probably
steered us to the financing table... but instead he wanted to argue.

"It weighs 6K dry" "But I just read the specs and they said 4500"
"You're wrong."

JEEZ. Guess those documents in the boat are all wrong and you're Mr. I
Know Everything and You Don't.

So here's a couple looking for a boat late in the season, and maybe we
won't buy till next year, and maybe we'll buy the 77 Sea Ray 240 SRV
hardtop that we(I)'ve been drooling over all summer ($7500, but really
nice), and maybe they could have made a sale that night.

Whatever we do, it won't be from Leader's Marine. If I want rude
arguments I'll talk to MY customers. Not someone I'm looking at
spending 40K + accessories from.

(* - She Who Must Be Obeyed)

PS -- I couldn't find the Martinique on the Wellcraft website, but I did
find the 240 Walkabout which has a dry weight of 3600 lbs.

"......Remember, there are always other dealers...."

Actually, there aren't. If you pick out the brand you want you usually find
that there is only one dealer within a couple hundred miles. If you buy
your new boat from a dealer a long way from home you may regret it when you
have warranty or service issues. It's true that you can get your engine /
outdrive serviced by an authorized local mechanic who doesn't sell your
brand of boat, but when you need that custom seat part or latch you will
need your dealer's assistance. Poor dealer experience was one of the
reasons I went with a different brand when I upsized boats this season.

Ron

1)How were you both dressed when you entered the showroom? I find
they are VERY sensitive to what you drive and what you wear at any
boat dealer, especially if they don't know you.

My friend Dan, a rather well-off medical researcher, wanted me to go
to the boat show with him to look for a smaller boat than the Hatteras
56 he'd just moved off of and sold because he loved to buzz around
Charleston in my jetboat. I agreed to go with him providing he wore
the same clothes he mows the lawn in on Saturday morning, not the
Brooks Brothers doctor's outfit with the Florsheims of his position,
which would make us a "target" for the sharks. He agreed.

Except for being run off a few yachts half the size of the one he'd
just sold because we didn't look like we belonged, the dealers all
just left us alone as we dug through the pile, poking around in the
crannies and bilges trying to see what kind of cheap it was made from.

There was one exception, a young salesman from Seels, the Grady-White
dealer. We'd picked out the bowrider Grady-White with a Yam EFI 150
on it and were poking around in it. Unlike the rest trying to get rid
of the rif-raf-rats, this kid was polite, genuinely interested in
helping us answering questions and, well, BEING A SALESMAN. I doubt
he was 22, so wasn't the hardened criminal you sometimes meet around
the showrooms.

He stood by while we poked into the holes and beat on the hull. I had
my head in a cabinet trying to figure out where I could run the
electronics cabling and Dan says, "What do you think?" I simply said
from inside the cabinet, "Buy it."...snapped my fingers a couple of
times and said, "Checkbook!" Dan looks at the kid and says, "We'll
take it." while reaching in his pocket for his checkbook.

About this time, the other salesmen who had been ignoring the rif-raf
wandered over to rescue the kid from these scruffy dock walkers. The
kid asked them to bring HIM a contract. He'd just sold a boat. To
quote the Mastercard commercial, the look on their faces was
"Priceless".....His gross just went up $35K.

I think you can use dress and your car as a consumer tool. If you
want to be fawned over, borrow someone's new Lexus or Cadillac
Escalade and go boat shopping in your suit dressed-to-kill. If you
want to be left alone to poke around, wear the clothes you mow the
lawn in...and drive your daughter's boyfriend's old Toyota with the
big rust holes in it....(c;




Larry W4CSC

"No, NO, Mr Spock! I said beam me down a WRENCH,
not a WENCH! KIRK OUT!"

"Larry" wrote in message
...

~~ snippage ~~

I think you can use dress and your car as a consumer tool. If you
want to be fawned over, borrow someone's new Lexus or Cadillac
Escalade and go boat shopping in your suit dressed-to-kill. If you
want to be left alone to poke around, wear the clothes you mow the
lawn in...and drive your daughter's boyfriend's old Toyota with the
big rust holes in it....(c;

I live by this rule - and it is SOO much fun you can't imagine.

Later,

Tom

Larry wrote:

1)How were you both dressed when you entered the showroom? I find
they are VERY sensitive to what you drive and what you wear at any
boat dealer, especially if they don't know you.

My friend Dan, a rather well-off medical researcher, wanted me to go
to the boat show with him to look for a smaller boat than the Hatteras
56 he'd just moved off of and sold because he loved to buzz around
Charleston in my jetboat. I agreed to go with him providing he wore
the same clothes he mows the lawn in on Saturday morning, not the
Brooks Brothers doctor's outfit with the Florsheims of his position,
which would make us a "target" for the sharks. He agreed.

Except for being run off a few yachts half the size of the one he'd
just sold because we didn't look like we belonged, the dealers all
just left us alone as we dug through the pile, poking around in the
crannies and bilges trying to see what kind of cheap it was made from.


Larry W4CSC


I suspect it is your attitude more than your clothing. I've never had
the slightest problem being taken seriously by boat salesmen, no matter
what I was wearing, and, when I visit boat dealers, I'm usually wearing
shorts, an old fishing tee-shirt and disreputable sneaks or flip-flops.


BTW, the doc in my immediate family doesn't shop at Brooks or wear
Florsheims.

If you want a really good suit, you'll need to visit Kiton's in Naples.




--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

... in Naples

I think SW Florida may be different than a lot of of places. The "Brooks
Brothers" types here may have a problem getting a loan but the guy who can just
write a check could show up in a rusty pickup wearing a "Oar House" T shirt and
ratty AOs from Dillards.

Absolutely. Most of the boaters I encounter where we keep our boats
don't dress up for the occasion. Methinks Larry is a bit caught up in
making his anti-dealer attitudes pay off.

Oh man, I was enjoying that story until you pointed out the author.

You ought to see the looks on the faces of the hi dollar RV sales man when
you tell him you are NOT taking off your grass stained tennis shoes and you
ARE going on in to check out the $475,000 unit.

That's a bull**** attitude.
Anybody who could afford to buy a half million dollar RV would have enough
class not to walk around in shoes intended to grass stain the interior.

It's one thing to dress down to shop, it's another thing to go out and see what
you can deliberately soil or ruin.

Suppose that RV or boat was *yours* and it was being shown on consignment. Bet
you'd see no real humor in people showing up with the dirtiest shoes they can
find and then demanding the ten cent lookie-loo tour.

the funny thing is though, when
my wife and I mention that we are not interested in buying a new boat untill
at least Feb. the salesmen have not once backed off and left us alone.

In
fact one salesman said " Im not even going to try to sell you a boat today,
If you want to buy one today thats fine but Im not going to push you.

Ask
any queston you have".

That's actually a fairly professional way to handle a customer. I can't tell
from your post whether you are griping about that approach or praising it.

Sounds like the salesperson *did* back off
appropriately. He agreed not to pressure you to buy, but offered to answer any
questions you might have had. Obviously, the guy wants to be remembered
favorably when you actually get serious about buying a boat.

The real screwup would be the guy who responded to your "not buying until next
Feb." technique by walking off muttering something under his breath about
"waste of my time".

Look,

Leader's Marine is a volume boat dealer; the bulk of their sales is 10 -
20K Larson ski boats. The kind of people who walk in there are dressed
virtually the same -- Wolverine, Spartan or Red Wing clothing (with the
odd Lions shirt). We're all driving late model SUVs. I'm in software
(technical side) and we don't dress up no matter how much we make.

(Lexus, BMW and Honda aren't going to survive long in some Michigan
parking lots).

There is no excuse for being rude no matter how I'm dressed.

How many of us believe that pontoon boats would be good for cruising
Lake Michigan?

How many of us believe that the weight specs from the dealer are wrong
by %33?

These were the assertions that the dealer felt so strongly about. You
know what they say about the difference between a computer salesman and
a car salesman? The car salesman can probably drive. I expect a boat
salesman to know something about boats -- hopefully more than a first
time buyer.

As to clothes -- those who filter based on clothes are either in target
rich environments (lots of buyers to filter) or lazy.

I'll wait until the Michigan City in-water Boatshow to see a dealer
again.

BTW, the price on the Wellcraft 2400 Martinique was very good. It's a
2002 at about 40K, and they seem to be listed at more than that on-line.
The engine in the 2002 is 225 hp, which seems low, and I see that they
bumped it up to 260 in 2003.