Could it be that it isn't Islamic Extremists clamping down on the valve
or Environmental Wackos preventing the siting of additional refineries
that is causing the current run up in prices?

Could it be that rather than campaigning to build new refineries (and
meeting insurmountable opposition from NIMBY's and greenies)
big oil is quietly closing down existing refineries all across the
country? Does selling a little less product for a lot more money put
BIG BUCKS in big oil's bib overalls?

Why did the State of California have to force Shell Oil to accept a
check for $130 million dollars from an independent oil company willing
to buy a refinery that Shell wanted to demolish? Could it be that
demolishing the refinery and raising prices for gasoline due to "short
supply" was going to make Shell a lot more money than the $130 million
it recieved for selling the refinery?

General question: We hear all this rhetoric about environmentalists
preventing the construction of an adequate number of refineries. Does
anybody know of a specific, recent, case where an oil company tried to
build a refinery and the attempt was thwarted by environmentalists?
Would be interesting to see a cite.


http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/energy/gasprices/

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:55:18 -0700, chuckgould.chuck wrote:


General question: We hear all this rhetoric about environmentalists
preventing the construction of an adequate number of refineries. Does
anybody know of a specific, recent, case where an oil company tried to
build a refinery and the attempt was thwarted by environmentalists? Would
be interesting to see a cite.

To increase profitability, oil companies have been streamlining refining
operations. This includes closing refineries and expanding existing
ones. They are not building new ones. In 1982, there were 231 oil
refineries in the US. In 2000, there were 155. In that time, according to
Carol Browner of the EPA, there was *one* application made to build a new
refinery.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...f:74099 .wais

To increase profitability ? They are making record profits as we type. Were
talking BILLIONS of dollars in profits. They are raping us because they know
they can.
"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 08:55:18 -0700, chuckgould.chuck wrote:


General question: We hear all this rhetoric about environmentalists
preventing the construction of an adequate number of refineries. Does
anybody know of a specific, recent, case where an oil company tried to
build a refinery and the attempt was thwarted by environmentalists? Would
be interesting to see a cite.

To increase profitability, oil companies have been streamlining refining
operations. This includes closing refineries and expanding existing
ones. They are not building new ones. In 1982, there were 231 oil
refineries in the US. In 2000, there were 155. In that time, according to
Carol Browner of the EPA, there was *one* application made to build a new
refinery.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...f:74099 .wais

wrote in message
oups.com...
Could it be that it isn't Islamic Extremists clamping down on the valve
or Environmental Wackos preventing the siting of additional refineries
that is causing the current run up in prices?

Could it be that rather than campaigning to build new refineries (and
meeting insurmountable opposition from NIMBY's and greenies)
big oil is quietly closing down existing refineries all across the
country? Does selling a little less product for a lot more money put
BIG BUCKS in big oil's bib overalls?

Why did the State of California have to force Shell Oil to accept a
check for $130 million dollars from an independent oil company willing
to buy a refinery that Shell wanted to demolish? Could it be that
demolishing the refinery and raising prices for gasoline due to "short
supply" was going to make Shell a lot more money than the $130 million
it recieved for selling the refinery?

General question: We hear all this rhetoric about environmentalists
preventing the construction of an adequate number of refineries. Does
anybody know of a specific, recent, case where an oil company tried to
build a refinery and the attempt was thwarted by environmentalists?
Would be interesting to see a cite.


http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/energy/gasprices/



Rush Limbaugh says the problem is environmental whackos, and that's the end
of the story. No questions permitted.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Could it be that it isn't Islamic Extremists clamping down on the valve
or Environmental Wackos preventing the siting of additional refineries
that is causing the current run up in prices?

Could it be that rather than campaigning to build new refineries (and
meeting insurmountable opposition from NIMBY's and greenies)
big oil is quietly closing down existing refineries all across the
country? Does selling a little less product for a lot more money put
BIG BUCKS in big oil's bib overalls?

Why did the State of California have to force Shell Oil to accept a
check for $130 million dollars from an independent oil company willing
to buy a refinery that Shell wanted to demolish? Could it be that
demolishing the refinery and raising prices for gasoline due to "short
supply" was going to make Shell a lot more money than the $130 million
it recieved for selling the refinery?

General question: We hear all this rhetoric about environmentalists
preventing the construction of an adequate number of refineries. Does
anybody know of a specific, recent, case where an oil company tried to
build a refinery and the attempt was thwarted by environmentalists?
Would be interesting to see a cite.


http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/energy/gasprices/


This is why Oil companies are freaking out about Ethanol.

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Could it be that it isn't Islamic Extremists clamping down on the valve
or Environmental Wackos preventing the siting of additional refineries
that is causing the current run up in prices?

Could it be that rather than campaigning to build new refineries (and
meeting insurmountable opposition from NIMBY's and greenies)
big oil is quietly closing down existing refineries all across the
country? Does selling a little less product for a lot more money put
BIG BUCKS in big oil's bib overalls?

Why did the State of California have to force Shell Oil to accept a
check for $130 million dollars from an independent oil company willing
to buy a refinery that Shell wanted to demolish? Could it be that
demolishing the refinery and raising prices for gasoline due to "short
supply" was going to make Shell a lot more money than the $130 million
it recieved for selling the refinery?

General question: We hear all this rhetoric about environmentalists
preventing the construction of an adequate number of refineries. Does
anybody know of a specific, recent, case where an oil company tried to
build a refinery and the attempt was thwarted by environmentalists?
Would be interesting to see a cite.


http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/energy/gasprices/


This is why Oil companies are freaking out about Ethanol.


Ethanol is just another farm subsidy to ADM. The oil companies can meet the
emissions requirements without ethanol, and ethanol lowers the milage. What
do you think ethanol costs per gallon?

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:50:12 -0700, ed wrote:

To increase profitability ? They are making record profits as we type.
Were talking BILLIONS of dollars in profits. They are raping us because
they know they can.

I should have been clearer. I was referring to the profitability of the
refining section of the industry. The refining/marketing section profits
have lagged considerably behind the production profits.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ining_text.htm

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
thunder wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:50:12 -0700, ed wrote:

To increase profitability ? They are making record profits as we type.
Were talking BILLIONS of dollars in profits. They are raping us because
they know they can.

I should have been clearer. I was referring to the profitability of the
refining section of the industry. The refining/marketing section profits
have lagged considerably behind the production profits.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...ining_text.htm



“Bloomberg says the N.Y. futures market is pegging refinery profits at
$15.82 a barrel … Just to make clear how much more money that is, we were
paying about $15.82 a barrel for oil just seven years ago and less than
that in 1997.”

“Every single oil product, except for low-sulphur diesel, is suffering
from a supply glut in Asia. I simply cannot understand why oil futures are
so high.”
— Japanese oil trader (Reuters Business Report, August 11, 2005)

“If demand [for oil] were booming, traders would keep supplies within
Asia … instead of exploiting opportunities to ship gas oil to Europe and
divert Middle East crude to the U. S. Gulf Coast on hopes of better
profits.”
— Reuters Business Report, August 11, 2005

“The profit margin for turning a barrel of oil into heating oil and
gasoline is $15.82, the highest in at least 16 years based on futures
prices in New York. This is more than double the margin a year ago.”
— Bloomberg Business Report, August 12, 2005


Next?

So buy oil company stock.

No offense, but petro corporations have so many different accounting
tricks and ways of burying and manipulating profits, I wonder if anyone
really knows how much any of them make.

There is some truth to that over the short term but eventually the cash
(or lack thereof) finds its way to the bottom line and balance sheet.
And the bottom line is that the petro industry is doing very well
indeed and we should be glad for it.

Seriously.

If there were no profit in it we would have run out of oil a long time
ago. Alternative energy other than wind will never be sufficient to
power our boats, and I'm getting a little too old to go back to sail at
this point in my life. Don't begrudge the oil companies their profits.
Buy stock instead, cash the dividends, enjoy the capital gains, buy
more fuel and go boating.

Ethanol is just another farm subsidy to ADM. The oil companies can meet the
emissions requirements without ethanol, and ethanol lowers the milage. What
do you think ethanol costs per gallon?

People who have studied ethanol have determined that if you add in all
of the secondary effects, it costs more energy to produce ethanol than
it delivers as a fuel. The ethanol lobby is very strong in farm states
however for obvious reasons.