Is problem with O-Ring Seal or Valve Body
 

"JTC" wrote in message
...
My 125 Force Tilt/Trim always slowly let the motor down when tilted to the
up position. Although annoying I lived with it for about a year. Last
week
the problem got worse. Now the motor will not tilt up unless I assist it
by
lifting the lower unit while using the trim button to tilt the motor up.
I
have examined the o-ring in the tilt cylinder and it looks fine. I bought
a
replacement O-Ring anyway but it is the wrong size so I have to get
another
one. However, I cant help but suspect the valve body on the pump. Does
anyone know what symptoms would indicate a problem with the valve body
verses the O-Rings in the tilt cylinder? And for those who have replaced
the O-Rings before, do they usually look damaged and mangled or what?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

The loss of pressure could be caused by any number of things,
but the piston/cylinder seal is probably the most likely cause of the
problem. Other causes could be fluid reserve, value body,
pump impeller, etc.

There isn't any real way to tell if an O ring is bad, but a reasonable
test is how hard it was to get the piston out of the cylinder. If it
produced a reasonable vacuum when it came out, then it most
likely was good. The cylinder seal would show signs of leaking.

Other than that, it is an internal leak in the pump (more O rings),
fluid level or a combination of same.

I would suspect internal leak though because you didn't say
anything about oil leaks.

Later,

Tom

Is problem with O-Ring Seal or Valve Body
 

Well, I bought an assortment of O-Rings to replace the one in the tilt
cylinder. If that doesn't work I'm going to take apart the pump to see what
can be replace in it.

Thanks for responding.


"Rural Knight" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JTC" wrote in message
...
My 125 Force Tilt/Trim always slowly let the motor down when tilted to
the
up position. Although annoying I lived with it for about a year. Last
week
the problem got worse. Now the motor will not tilt up unless I assist
it
by
lifting the lower unit while using the trim button to tilt the motor up.
I
have examined the o-ring in the tilt cylinder and it looks fine. I
bought
a
replacement O-Ring anyway but it is the wrong size so I have to get
another
one. However, I cant help but suspect the valve body on the pump. Does
anyone know what symptoms would indicate a problem with the valve body
verses the O-Rings in the tilt cylinder? And for those who have
replaced
the O-Rings before, do they usually look damaged and mangled or what?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

The loss of pressure could be caused by any number of things,
but the piston/cylinder seal is probably the most likely cause of the
problem. Other causes could be fluid reserve, value body,
pump impeller, etc.

There isn't any real way to tell if an O ring is bad, but a reasonable
test is how hard it was to get the piston out of the cylinder. If it
produced a reasonable vacuum when it came out, then it most
likely was good. The cylinder seal would show signs of leaking.

Other than that, it is an internal leak in the pump (more O rings),
fluid level or a combination of same.

I would suspect internal leak though because you didn't say
anything about oil leaks.

Later,

Tom

Is problem with O-Ring Seal or Valve Body
 

I replaced O-Ring in the tilt cylinder with little improvement. Guess I
have to move on to the pump.


"JTC" wrote in message
...
Well, I bought an assortment of O-Rings to replace the one in the tilt
cylinder. If that doesn't work I'm going to take apart the pump to see
what
can be replace in it.

Thanks for responding.


"Rural Knight" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JTC" wrote in message
...
My 125 Force Tilt/Trim always slowly let the motor down when tilted to
the
up position. Although annoying I lived with it for about a year.
Last
week
the problem got worse. Now the motor will not tilt up unless I assist
it
by
lifting the lower unit while using the trim button to tilt the motor
up.
I
have examined the o-ring in the tilt cylinder and it looks fine. I
bought
a
replacement O-Ring anyway but it is the wrong size so I have to get
another
one. However, I cant help but suspect the valve body on the pump.
Does
anyone know what symptoms would indicate a problem with the valve body
verses the O-Rings in the tilt cylinder? And for those who have
replaced
the O-Rings before, do they usually look damaged and mangled or what?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

The loss of pressure could be caused by any number of things,
but the piston/cylinder seal is probably the most likely cause of the
problem. Other causes could be fluid reserve, value body,
pump impeller, etc.

There isn't any real way to tell if an O ring is bad, but a reasonable
test is how hard it was to get the piston out of the cylinder. If it
produced a reasonable vacuum when it came out, then it most
likely was good. The cylinder seal would show signs of leaking.

Other than that, it is an internal leak in the pump (more O rings),
fluid level or a combination of same.

I would suspect internal leak though because you didn't say
anything about oil leaks.

Later,

Tom

Is problem with O-Ring Seal or Valve Body
 

I took the valve body off of the pump. Was covered in about 1/2 inch of
sludge. Didn't find any O'Rings in the valve body but I wasn't able too
take it completely apart. I did take it apart far enough to check the bb's
and springs and gear inside. everything looked ok except for the sludge
that I removed. I think maybe on of the springs was not in it correct place
though. After I cleaned up everything and put it back together I didn't
have enough trim fluid to refill the pump reservoir. I was only able to put
a little bit of fluid in. I attempted to tilt the motor and it did go up
farther than it has been going but only about 4 inches. Then pump was
catching air since the fluid was low. Maybe I got it fixed. ??? The only
other thing I am willing to change myself will be the o-ring in the trim
cylinder. I don't know if losing pressure in the trim cylinder will effect
the tilt cylinder and vice versa. I'll find out later today when I work on
it some more I guess.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I replaced O-Ring in the tilt cylinder with little improvement. Guess I
have to move on to the pump.


"JTC" wrote in message
...
Well, I bought an assortment of O-Rings to replace the one in the tilt
cylinder. If that doesn't work I'm going to take apart the pump to see
what
can be replace in it.

Thanks for responding.


"Rural Knight" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JTC" wrote in message
...
My 125 Force Tilt/Trim always slowly let the motor down when tilted
to
the
up position. Although annoying I lived with it for about a year.
Last
week
the problem got worse. Now the motor will not tilt up unless I
assist
it
by
lifting the lower unit while using the trim button to tilt the motor
up.
I
have examined the o-ring in the tilt cylinder and it looks fine. I
bought
a
replacement O-Ring anyway but it is the wrong size so I have to get
another
one. However, I cant help but suspect the valve body on the pump.
Does
anyone know what symptoms would indicate a problem with the valve
body
verses the O-Rings in the tilt cylinder? And for those who have
replaced
the O-Rings before, do they usually look damaged and mangled or
what?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

The loss of pressure could be caused by any number of things,
but the piston/cylinder seal is probably the most likely cause of the
problem. Other causes could be fluid reserve, value body,
pump impeller, etc.

There isn't any real way to tell if an O ring is bad, but a reasonable
test is how hard it was to get the piston out of the cylinder. If it
produced a reasonable vacuum when it came out, then it most
likely was good. The cylinder seal would show signs of leaking.

Other than that, it is an internal leak in the pump (more O rings),
fluid level or a combination of same.

I would suspect internal leak though because you didn't say
anything about oil leaks.

Later,

Tom

Is problem with O-Ring Seal or Valve Body
 

Update: Well I replenished the tilt fluid and the motor tilts up with no
problem. The motor will tilt down until it reaches the trim cylinder piston
and stops. The trim goes down reeeaaaalllllyy slow. I don't understand
why. I am wondering if there were supposed to be three springs in the valve
body instead of only two,,, or maybe I placed the spring over the wrong ball
bearing. If anyone knows what I did wrong I would sure appreciate some
advise. I have read that the main things that go wrong the Force trim units
are the o-rings in the trim and tilt cylinders and the "Point Check Valve"
in the valve body. The point check valve is very difficult to get to and
I'd prefer not to screw with it as long as the motor will tilt even if it
bleeds down from the up position. I don't know how long the pump motor will
list letting it wind the trim cylinder down taking about 2 minutes.

Well, if anyone has any advise I'd be very grateful.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I took the valve body off of the pump. Was covered in about 1/2 inch of
sludge. Didn't find any O'Rings in the valve body but I wasn't able too
take it completely apart. I did take it apart far enough to check the
bb's
and springs and gear inside. everything looked ok except for the sludge
that I removed. I think maybe on of the springs was not in it correct
place
though. After I cleaned up everything and put it back together I didn't
have enough trim fluid to refill the pump reservoir. I was only able to
put
a little bit of fluid in. I attempted to tilt the motor and it did go up
farther than it has been going but only about 4 inches. Then pump was
catching air since the fluid was low. Maybe I got it fixed. ??? The only
other thing I am willing to change myself will be the o-ring in the trim
cylinder. I don't know if losing pressure in the trim cylinder will
effect
the tilt cylinder and vice versa. I'll find out later today when I work
on
it some more I guess.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I replaced O-Ring in the tilt cylinder with little improvement. Guess I
have to move on to the pump.


"JTC" wrote in message
...
Well, I bought an assortment of O-Rings to replace the one in the tilt
cylinder. If that doesn't work I'm going to take apart the pump to
see
what
can be replace in it.

Thanks for responding.


"Rural Knight" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JTC" wrote in message
...
My 125 Force Tilt/Trim always slowly let the motor down when
tilted
to
the
up position. Although annoying I lived with it for about a year.
Last
week
the problem got worse. Now the motor will not tilt up unless I
assist
it
by
lifting the lower unit while using the trim button to tilt the
motor
up.
I
have examined the o-ring in the tilt cylinder and it looks fine.
I
bought
a
replacement O-Ring anyway but it is the wrong size so I have to
get
another
one. However, I cant help but suspect the valve body on the pump.
Does
anyone know what symptoms would indicate a problem with the valve
body
verses the O-Rings in the tilt cylinder? And for those who have
replaced
the O-Rings before, do they usually look damaged and mangled or
what?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

The loss of pressure could be caused by any number of things,
but the piston/cylinder seal is probably the most likely cause of
the
problem. Other causes could be fluid reserve, value body,
pump impeller, etc.

There isn't any real way to tell if an O ring is bad, but a
reasonable
test is how hard it was to get the piston out of the cylinder. If it
produced a reasonable vacuum when it came out, then it most
likely was good. The cylinder seal would show signs of leaking.

Other than that, it is an internal leak in the pump (more O rings),
fluid level or a combination of same.

I would suspect internal leak though because you didn't say
anything about oil leaks.

Later,

Tom

Is problem with O-Ring Seal or Valve Body
 

On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 21:22:31 -0500, "JTC" wrote:

Update: Well I replenished the tilt fluid and the motor tilts up with no
problem. The motor will tilt down until it reaches the trim cylinder piston
and stops. The trim goes down reeeaaaalllllyy slow. I don't understand
why. I am wondering if there were supposed to be three springs in the valve
body instead of only two,,, or maybe I placed the spring over the wrong ball
bearing. If anyone knows what I did wrong I would sure appreciate some
advise. I have read that the main things that go wrong the Force trim units
are the o-rings in the trim and tilt cylinders and the "Point Check Valve"
in the valve body. The point check valve is very difficult to get to and
I'd prefer not to screw with it as long as the motor will tilt even if it
bleeds down from the up position. I don't know how long the pump motor will
list letting it wind the trim cylinder down taking about 2 minutes.

Well, if anyone has any advise I'd be very grateful.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I took the valve body off of the pump. Was covered in about 1/2 inch of
sludge. Didn't find any O'Rings in the valve body but I wasn't able too
take it completely apart. I did take it apart far enough to check the
bb's
and springs and gear inside. everything looked ok except for the sludge
that I removed. I think maybe on of the springs was not in it correct
place
though. After I cleaned up everything and put it back together I didn't
have enough trim fluid to refill the pump reservoir. I was only able to
put
a little bit of fluid in. I attempted to tilt the motor and it did go up
farther than it has been going but only about 4 inches. Then pump was
catching air since the fluid was low. Maybe I got it fixed. ??? The only
other thing I am willing to change myself will be the o-ring in the trim
cylinder. I don't know if losing pressure in the trim cylinder will
effect
the tilt cylinder and vice versa. I'll find out later today when I work
on
it some more I guess.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I replaced O-Ring in the tilt cylinder with little improvement. Guess I
have to move on to the pump.


"JTC" wrote in message
...
Well, I bought an assortment of O-Rings to replace the one in the tilt
cylinder. If that doesn't work I'm going to take apart the pump to
see
what
can be replace in it.

Thanks for responding.


"Rural Knight" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JTC" wrote in message
...
My 125 Force Tilt/Trim always slowly let the motor down when
tilted
to
the
up position. Although annoying I lived with it for about a year.
Last
week
the problem got worse. Now the motor will not tilt up unless I
assist
it
by
lifting the lower unit while using the trim button to tilt the
motor
up.
I
have examined the o-ring in the tilt cylinder and it looks fine.
I
bought
a
replacement O-Ring anyway but it is the wrong size so I have to
get
another
one. However, I cant help but suspect the valve body on the pump.
Does
anyone know what symptoms would indicate a problem with the valve
body
verses the O-Rings in the tilt cylinder? And for those who have
replaced
the O-Rings before, do they usually look damaged and mangled or
what?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

The loss of pressure could be caused by any number of things,
but the piston/cylinder seal is probably the most likely cause of
the
problem. Other causes could be fluid reserve, value body,
pump impeller, etc.

There isn't any real way to tell if an O ring is bad, but a
reasonable
test is how hard it was to get the piston out of the cylinder. If it
produced a reasonable vacuum when it came out, then it most
likely was good. The cylinder seal would show signs of leaking.

Other than that, it is an internal leak in the pump (more O rings),
fluid level or a combination of same.

I would suspect internal leak though because you didn't say
anything about oil leaks.

Later,

Tom










Jeff- is it possible that the "down" problem is in the pivot points
on the motor (lacking grease), or that the trim piston is "dry" or a
little corroded? The problem may not be in the pump.

Make sure all zirc's are greased, and check out the trim piston. A
little hydraulic fluid on a rag will help lubricate it, or you can use
a little light teflon grease. Even minor corrosion can cause it to
"hang".

noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

Is problem with O-Ring Seal or Valve Body
 

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 21:22:31 -0500, "JTC" wrote:

Update: Well I replenished the tilt fluid and the motor tilts up with no
problem. The motor will tilt down until it reaches the trim cylinder
piston
and stops. The trim goes down reeeaaaalllllyy slow. I don't understand
why. I am wondering if there were supposed to be three springs in the
valve
body instead of only two,,, or maybe I placed the spring over the wrong
ball
bearing. If anyone knows what I did wrong I would sure appreciate some
advise. I have read that the main things that go wrong the Force trim
units
are the o-rings in the trim and tilt cylinders and the "Point Check
Valve"
in the valve body. The point check valve is very difficult to get to and
I'd prefer not to screw with it as long as the motor will tilt even if it
bleeds down from the up position. I don't know how long the pump motor
will
list letting it wind the trim cylinder down taking about 2 minutes.

Well, if anyone has any advise I'd be very grateful.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I took the valve body off of the pump. Was covered in about 1/2 inch
of
sludge. Didn't find any O'Rings in the valve body but I wasn't able
too
take it completely apart. I did take it apart far enough to check the
bb's
and springs and gear inside. everything looked ok except for the
sludge
that I removed. I think maybe on of the springs was not in it correct
place
though. After I cleaned up everything and put it back together I
didn't
have enough trim fluid to refill the pump reservoir. I was only able
to
put
a little bit of fluid in. I attempted to tilt the motor and it did go
up
farther than it has been going but only about 4 inches. Then pump was
catching air since the fluid was low. Maybe I got it fixed. ??? The
only
other thing I am willing to change myself will be the o-ring in the
trim
cylinder. I don't know if losing pressure in the trim cylinder will
effect
the tilt cylinder and vice versa. I'll find out later today when I
work
on
it some more I guess.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I replaced O-Ring in the tilt cylinder with little improvement.
Guess I
have to move on to the pump.


"JTC" wrote in message
...
Well, I bought an assortment of O-Rings to replace the one in the
tilt
cylinder. If that doesn't work I'm going to take apart the pump to
see
what
can be replace in it.

Thanks for responding.


"Rural Knight" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JTC" wrote in message
...
My 125 Force Tilt/Trim always slowly let the motor down when
tilted
to
the
up position. Although annoying I lived with it for about a
year.
Last
week
the problem got worse. Now the motor will not tilt up unless I
assist
it
by
lifting the lower unit while using the trim button to tilt the
motor
up.
I
have examined the o-ring in the tilt cylinder and it looks
fine.
I
bought
a
replacement O-Ring anyway but it is the wrong size so I have to
get
another
one. However, I cant help but suspect the valve body on the
pump.
Does
anyone know what symptoms would indicate a problem with the
valve
body
verses the O-Rings in the tilt cylinder? And for those who
have
replaced
the O-Rings before, do they usually look damaged and mangled or
what?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

The loss of pressure could be caused by any number of things,
but the piston/cylinder seal is probably the most likely cause of
the
problem. Other causes could be fluid reserve, value body,
pump impeller, etc.

There isn't any real way to tell if an O ring is bad, but a
reasonable
test is how hard it was to get the piston out of the cylinder. If
it
produced a reasonable vacuum when it came out, then it most
likely was good. The cylinder seal would show signs of leaking.

Other than that, it is an internal leak in the pump (more O
rings),
fluid level or a combination of same.

I would suspect internal leak though because you didn't say
anything about oil leaks.

Later,

Tom










Jeff- is it possible that the "down" problem is in the pivot points
on the motor (lacking grease), or that the trim piston is "dry" or a
little corroded? The problem may not be in the pump.

Make sure all zirc's are greased, and check out the trim piston. A
little hydraulic fluid on a rag will help lubricate it, or you can use
a little light teflon grease. Even minor corrosion can cause it to
"hang".

noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

Thanks for the response noah. I will lubricate the pivot joint on the motor
as you suggest. However, I am sure that the problem is hydraulic. I
replaced the seals on the Point Check Valves in the valve body today. This
was supposed to stop leak down of the motor from the tilted up position.
When I first put the pump back on the motor it tilted up and down twice as I
was cycling the air out of the system then the motor quit tilting down.
(before it only the trim would not go down) now the trim wont go down
either, and the motor is still leaking down only allot slower now. I don't
know what to do at this point. Guess I'll be trying to find a rebuilt one
somewhere. I have seen a few places online to purchase a rebuilt one with
trade in of the old. approx $150 to $175 to do this if you can find
somebody who has one in stock.

Is problem with O-Ring Seal or Valve Body
 

I fixed my pump finally.

The location of one bearing in particular is very important to making the
motor trim down after you rebuilt the valve body. (if you only change the
seals in the check valves in the bottom of the valve assembly you are ok) If
you take apart the top of the valve body you'll need this info.

The bearing that controls the flow of fluid to tilt the motor down does not
rest in the valve body (where you will find it after taking off the gear
cover). In order to reinstall all the bearings and springs correctly you
have to put it together upside down.

First turn the gear cover upside down and drop all springs in their
appropriate places. Then drop all BB's in appropriate places. The large BB
should be resting on the large spring and a small BB should be resting on
the small spring.

Lower the valve body on to the gear cover and squeeze tight and at the same
time screw in one of the bolts to hold it together. Once you get one bolt in
you can flip it right side up and install the rest of the bolts. (3 Hex & 2
Regular bolts)

I drew some diagrams for this;

Looking at valve body:
http://www.cox-internet.com/072070/G...ngassembly.JPG

Looking at gear cover:
http://www.cox-internet.com/072070/C...ofbearings.JPG

I hope this helps someone.


"JTC" wrote in message
...

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 21:22:31 -0500, "JTC" wrote:

Update: Well I replenished the tilt fluid and the motor tilts up with
no
problem. The motor will tilt down until it reaches the trim cylinder
piston
and stops. The trim goes down reeeaaaalllllyy slow. I don't
understand
why. I am wondering if there were supposed to be three springs in the
valve
body instead of only two,,, or maybe I placed the spring over the wrong
ball
bearing. If anyone knows what I did wrong I would sure appreciate some
advise. I have read that the main things that go wrong the Force trim
units
are the o-rings in the trim and tilt cylinders and the "Point Check
Valve"
in the valve body. The point check valve is very difficult to get to
and
I'd prefer not to screw with it as long as the motor will tilt even if
it
bleeds down from the up position. I don't know how long the pump motor
will
list letting it wind the trim cylinder down taking about 2 minutes.

Well, if anyone has any advise I'd be very grateful.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I took the valve body off of the pump. Was covered in about 1/2 inch
of
sludge. Didn't find any O'Rings in the valve body but I wasn't able
too
take it completely apart. I did take it apart far enough to check
the
bb's
and springs and gear inside. everything looked ok except for the
sludge
that I removed. I think maybe on of the springs was not in it
correct
place
though. After I cleaned up everything and put it back together I
didn't
have enough trim fluid to refill the pump reservoir. I was only able
to
put
a little bit of fluid in. I attempted to tilt the motor and it did
go
up
farther than it has been going but only about 4 inches. Then pump
was
catching air since the fluid was low. Maybe I got it fixed. ??? The
only
other thing I am willing to change myself will be the o-ring in the
trim
cylinder. I don't know if losing pressure in the trim cylinder will
effect
the tilt cylinder and vice versa. I'll find out later today when I
work
on
it some more I guess.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I replaced O-Ring in the tilt cylinder with little improvement.
Guess I
have to move on to the pump.


"JTC" wrote in message
...
Well, I bought an assortment of O-Rings to replace the one in the
tilt
cylinder. If that doesn't work I'm going to take apart the pump
to
see
what
can be replace in it.

Thanks for responding.


"Rural Knight" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JTC" wrote in message
...
My 125 Force Tilt/Trim always slowly let the motor down when
tilted
to
the
up position. Although annoying I lived with it for about a
year.
Last
week
the problem got worse. Now the motor will not tilt up unless
I
assist
it
by
lifting the lower unit while using the trim button to tilt
the
motor
up.
I
have examined the o-ring in the tilt cylinder and it looks
fine.
I
bought
a
replacement O-Ring anyway but it is the wrong size so I have
to
get
another
one. However, I cant help but suspect the valve body on the
pump.
Does
anyone know what symptoms would indicate a problem with the
valve
body
verses the O-Rings in the tilt cylinder? And for those who
have
replaced
the O-Rings before, do they usually look damaged and mangled
or
what?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

The loss of pressure could be caused by any number of things,
but the piston/cylinder seal is probably the most likely cause
of
the
problem. Other causes could be fluid reserve, value body,
pump impeller, etc.

There isn't any real way to tell if an O ring is bad, but a
reasonable
test is how hard it was to get the piston out of the cylinder.
If
it
produced a reasonable vacuum when it came out, then it most
likely was good. The cylinder seal would show signs of
leaking.

Other than that, it is an internal leak in the pump (more O
rings),
fluid level or a combination of same.

I would suspect internal leak though because you didn't say
anything about oil leaks.

Later,

Tom










Jeff- is it possible that the "down" problem is in the pivot points
on the motor (lacking grease), or that the trim piston is "dry" or a
little corroded? The problem may not be in the pump.

Make sure all zirc's are greased, and check out the trim piston. A
little hydraulic fluid on a rag will help lubricate it, or you can use
a little light teflon grease. Even minor corrosion can cause it to
"hang".

noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

Thanks for the response noah. I will lubricate the pivot joint on the
motor
as you suggest. However, I am sure that the problem is hydraulic. I
replaced the seals on the Point Check Valves in the valve body today.
This
was supposed to stop leak down of the motor from the tilted up position.
When I first put the pump back on the motor it tilted up and down twice as
I
was cycling the air out of the system then the motor quit tilting down.
(before it only the trim would not go down) now the trim wont go down
either, and the motor is still leaking down only allot slower now. I
don't
know what to do at this point. Guess I'll be trying to find a rebuilt one
somewhere. I have seen a few places online to purchase a rebuilt one with
trade in of the old. approx $150 to $175 to do this if you can find
somebody who has one in stock.

Is problem with O-Ring Seal or Valve Body
 

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 17:54:46 -0500, "JTC"
wrote:

I fixed my pump finally.

The location of one bearing in particular is very important to making the
motor trim down after you rebuilt the valve body. (if you only change the
seals in the check valves in the bottom of the valve assembly you are ok) If
you take apart the top of the valve body you'll need this info.

The bearing that controls the flow of fluid to tilt the motor down does not
rest in the valve body (where you will find it after taking off the gear
cover). In order to reinstall all the bearings and springs correctly you
have to put it together upside down.

First turn the gear cover upside down and drop all springs in their
appropriate places. Then drop all BB's in appropriate places. The large BB
should be resting on the large spring and a small BB should be resting on
the small spring.

Lower the valve body on to the gear cover and squeeze tight and at the same
time screw in one of the bolts to hold it together. Once you get one bolt in
you can flip it right side up and install the rest of the bolts. (3 Hex & 2
Regular bolts)

I drew some diagrams for this;

Looking at valve body:
http://www.cox-internet.com/072070/G...ngassembly.JPG

Looking at gear cover:
http://www.cox-internet.com/072070/C...ofbearings.JPG

I hope this helps someone.


"JTC" wrote in message
...

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 21:22:31 -0500, "JTC" wrote:

Update: Well I replenished the tilt fluid and the motor tilts up with
no
problem. The motor will tilt down until it reaches the trim cylinder
piston
and stops. The trim goes down reeeaaaalllllyy slow. I don't
understand
why. I am wondering if there were supposed to be three springs in the
valve
body instead of only two,,, or maybe I placed the spring over the wrong
ball
bearing. If anyone knows what I did wrong I would sure appreciate some
advise. I have read that the main things that go wrong the Force trim
units
are the o-rings in the trim and tilt cylinders and the "Point Check
Valve"
in the valve body. The point check valve is very difficult to get to
and
I'd prefer not to screw with it as long as the motor will tilt even if
it
bleeds down from the up position. I don't know how long the pump motor
will
list letting it wind the trim cylinder down taking about 2 minutes.

Well, if anyone has any advise I'd be very grateful.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I took the valve body off of the pump. Was covered in about 1/2 inch
of
sludge. Didn't find any O'Rings in the valve body but I wasn't able
too
take it completely apart. I did take it apart far enough to check
the
bb's
and springs and gear inside. everything looked ok except for the
sludge
that I removed. I think maybe on of the springs was not in it
correct
place
though. After I cleaned up everything and put it back together I
didn't
have enough trim fluid to refill the pump reservoir. I was only able
to
put
a little bit of fluid in. I attempted to tilt the motor and it did
go
up
farther than it has been going but only about 4 inches. Then pump
was
catching air since the fluid was low. Maybe I got it fixed. ??? The
only
other thing I am willing to change myself will be the o-ring in the
trim
cylinder. I don't know if losing pressure in the trim cylinder will
effect
the tilt cylinder and vice versa. I'll find out later today when I
work
on
it some more I guess.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I replaced O-Ring in the tilt cylinder with little improvement.
Guess I
have to move on to the pump.


"JTC" wrote in message
...
Well, I bought an assortment of O-Rings to replace the one in the
tilt
cylinder. If that doesn't work I'm going to take apart the pump
to
see
what
can be replace in it.

Thanks for responding.


"Rural Knight" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JTC" wrote in message
...
My 125 Force Tilt/Trim always slowly let the motor down when
tilted
to
the
up position. Although annoying I lived with it for about a
year.
Last
week
the problem got worse. Now the motor will not tilt up unless
I
assist
it
by
lifting the lower unit while using the trim button to tilt
the
motor
up.
I
have examined the o-ring in the tilt cylinder and it looks
fine.
I
bought
a
replacement O-Ring anyway but it is the wrong size so I have
to
get
another
one. However, I cant help but suspect the valve body on the
pump.
Does
anyone know what symptoms would indicate a problem with the
valve
body
verses the O-Rings in the tilt cylinder? And for those who
have
replaced
the O-Rings before, do they usually look damaged and mangled
or
what?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

The loss of pressure could be caused by any number of things,
but the piston/cylinder seal is probably the most likely cause
of
the
problem. Other causes could be fluid reserve, value body,
pump impeller, etc.

There isn't any real way to tell if an O ring is bad, but a
reasonable
test is how hard it was to get the piston out of the cylinder.
If
it
produced a reasonable vacuum when it came out, then it most
likely was good. The cylinder seal would show signs of
leaking.

Other than that, it is an internal leak in the pump (more O
rings),
fluid level or a combination of same.

I would suspect internal leak though because you didn't say
anything about oil leaks.

Later,

Tom










Jeff- is it possible that the "down" problem is in the pivot points
on the motor (lacking grease), or that the trim piston is "dry" or a
little corroded? The problem may not be in the pump.

Make sure all zirc's are greased, and check out the trim piston. A
little hydraulic fluid on a rag will help lubricate it, or you can use
a little light teflon grease. Even minor corrosion can cause it to
"hang".

noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

Thanks for the response noah. I will lubricate the pivot joint on the
motor
as you suggest. However, I am sure that the problem is hydraulic. I
replaced the seals on the Point Check Valves in the valve body today.
This
was supposed to stop leak down of the motor from the tilted up position.
When I first put the pump back on the motor it tilted up and down twice as
I
was cycling the air out of the system then the motor quit tilting down.
(before it only the trim would not go down) now the trim wont go down
either, and the motor is still leaking down only allot slower now. I
don't
know what to do at this point. Guess I'll be trying to find a rebuilt one
somewhere. I have seen a few places online to purchase a rebuilt one with
trade in of the old. approx $150 to $175 to do this if you can find
somebody who has one in stock.




Glad you got it!
noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

Is problem with O-Ring Seal or Valve Body
 

Thanks

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 17:54:46 -0500, "JTC"
wrote:

I fixed my pump finally.

The location of one bearing in particular is very important to making the
motor trim down after you rebuilt the valve body. (if you only change the
seals in the check valves in the bottom of the valve assembly you are ok)
If
you take apart the top of the valve body you'll need this info.

The bearing that controls the flow of fluid to tilt the motor down does
not
rest in the valve body (where you will find it after taking off the gear
cover). In order to reinstall all the bearings and springs correctly you
have to put it together upside down.

First turn the gear cover upside down and drop all springs in their
appropriate places. Then drop all BB's in appropriate places. The large
BB
should be resting on the large spring and a small BB should be resting on
the small spring.

Lower the valve body on to the gear cover and squeeze tight and at the
same
time screw in one of the bolts to hold it together. Once you get one bolt
in
you can flip it right side up and install the rest of the bolts. (3 Hex &
2
Regular bolts)

I drew some diagrams for this;

Looking at valve body:
http://www.cox-internet.com/072070/G...ngassembly.JPG

Looking at gear cover:
http://www.cox-internet.com/072070/C...ofbearings.JPG

I hope this helps someone.


"JTC" wrote in message
...

"noah" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 21:22:31 -0500, "JTC"
wrote:

Update: Well I replenished the tilt fluid and the motor tilts up
with
no
problem. The motor will tilt down until it reaches the trim
cylinder
piston
and stops. The trim goes down reeeaaaalllllyy slow. I don't
understand
why. I am wondering if there were supposed to be three springs in
the
valve
body instead of only two,,, or maybe I placed the spring over the
wrong
ball
bearing. If anyone knows what I did wrong I would sure appreciate
some
advise. I have read that the main things that go wrong the Force
trim
units
are the o-rings in the trim and tilt cylinders and the "Point Check
Valve"
in the valve body. The point check valve is very difficult to get
to
and
I'd prefer not to screw with it as long as the motor will tilt even
if
it
bleeds down from the up position. I don't know how long the pump
motor
will
list letting it wind the trim cylinder down taking about 2 minutes.

Well, if anyone has any advise I'd be very grateful.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I took the valve body off of the pump. Was covered in about 1/2
inch
of
sludge. Didn't find any O'Rings in the valve body but I wasn't
able
too
take it completely apart. I did take it apart far enough to check
the
bb's
and springs and gear inside. everything looked ok except for the
sludge
that I removed. I think maybe on of the springs was not in it
correct
place
though. After I cleaned up everything and put it back together I
didn't
have enough trim fluid to refill the pump reservoir. I was only
able
to
put
a little bit of fluid in. I attempted to tilt the motor and it
did
go
up
farther than it has been going but only about 4 inches. Then pump
was
catching air since the fluid was low. Maybe I got it fixed. ???
The
only
other thing I am willing to change myself will be the o-ring in
the
trim
cylinder. I don't know if losing pressure in the trim cylinder
will
effect
the tilt cylinder and vice versa. I'll find out later today when
I
work
on
it some more I guess.

JeffC

"JTC" wrote in message
...
I replaced O-Ring in the tilt cylinder with little improvement.
Guess I
have to move on to the pump.


"JTC" wrote in message
...
Well, I bought an assortment of O-Rings to replace the one in
the
tilt
cylinder. If that doesn't work I'm going to take apart the
pump
to
see
what
can be replace in it.

Thanks for responding.


"Rural Knight" wrote in message
ink.net...

"JTC" wrote in message
...
My 125 Force Tilt/Trim always slowly let the motor down
when
tilted
to
the
up position. Although annoying I lived with it for about
a
year.
Last
week
the problem got worse. Now the motor will not tilt up
unless
I
assist
it
by
lifting the lower unit while using the trim button to tilt
the
motor
up.
I
have examined the o-ring in the tilt cylinder and it looks
fine.
I
bought
a
replacement O-Ring anyway but it is the wrong size so I
have
to
get
another
one. However, I cant help but suspect the valve body on
the
pump.
Does
anyone know what symptoms would indicate a problem with
the
valve
body
verses the O-Rings in the tilt cylinder? And for those
who
have
replaced
the O-Rings before, do they usually look damaged and
mangled
or
what?

Any advise is greatly appreciated.

The loss of pressure could be caused by any number of
things,
but the piston/cylinder seal is probably the most likely
cause
of
the
problem. Other causes could be fluid reserve, value body,
pump impeller, etc.

There isn't any real way to tell if an O ring is bad, but a
reasonable
test is how hard it was to get the piston out of the
cylinder.
If
it
produced a reasonable vacuum when it came out, then it most
likely was good. The cylinder seal would show signs of
leaking.

Other than that, it is an internal leak in the pump (more O
rings),
fluid level or a combination of same.

I would suspect internal leak though because you didn't say
anything about oil leaks.

Later,

Tom










Jeff- is it possible that the "down" problem is in the pivot points
on the motor (lacking grease), or that the trim piston is "dry" or a
little corroded? The problem may not be in the pump.

Make sure all zirc's are greased, and check out the trim piston. A
little hydraulic fluid on a rag will help lubricate it, or you can
use
a little light teflon grease. Even minor corrosion can cause it to
"hang".

noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats

Thanks for the response noah. I will lubricate the pivot joint on the
motor
as you suggest. However, I am sure that the problem is hydraulic. I
replaced the seals on the Point Check Valves in the valve body today.
This
was supposed to stop leak down of the motor from the tilted up
position.
When I first put the pump back on the motor it tilted up and down twice
as
I
was cycling the air out of the system then the motor quit tilting down.
(before it only the trim would not go down) now the trim wont go down
either, and the motor is still leaking down only allot slower now. I
don't
know what to do at this point. Guess I'll be trying to find a rebuilt
one
somewhere. I have seen a few places online to purchase a rebuilt one
with
trade in of the old. approx $150 to $175 to do this if you can find
somebody who has one in stock.




Glad you got it!
noah

Courtesy of Lee Yeaton,
See the boats of rec.boats
www.TheBayGuide.com/rec.boats