It's been a while since I checked out this newsgroup . . . But I just
noticed that there isn't a single thread of Bayliner bashing in this
Newsgroup right now. Did everybody simply get tired? Is everybody out
boating instead? Hmmm . . .

Just wanted share a story . . . I recently had the opportunity to spend a
day with a very talented surveyor (he's surveyed cruise yachts and research
vessels). We spent an entire day hammering, tapping, inspecting, scoping,
and all that surveying jazz on a late-model Tiara. By the time he got done
inspecting the hull, he had drawn up more red marks on the hull of this boat
than my term papers high school. He drew up D's for delams and V's for voids
and lines and circles to show the extent of all the D's and V's. I almost
feinted because I thought that the deal for this boat was as good as done
prior to the survey. It was after all, a Tiara.

The surveyor told me that he's seen this type of structural flaws on even
Cabos and Vikings. He didn't think that this type of delaminations and voids
in the gel coat could be the result of any accident but rather came out of
the factory this way. Then I asked him, "Well, if a Tiara can come out of
the factory this way, what chances does a boat like Bayliner have?"

He smiled and told me that he has surveyed old Bayliners that didn't have a
single flaw in the hull. He also told me that he surveyed one of those large
Bayliner "Yachts" for a friend who actually ended up purchasing it. This
recent dialogue also made me think of 18 year old Bayliner in my marina that
REALLY does look great. At this rate, that boat will be in that same slip
for another 18 years . . .

Hey, I'm not going to tell anybody that I would rather be chillin' out in a
Bayliner instead of a Bertram but I am now a firm believer in the fact that
in boating, a close and thorough survey of the boat is much more important
than brand names, urban legends, and the many humorous and at times
informative rantings that are found on this newsgroup. I hope that this info
can be of some help to newbies out there . . .

J

It appears that the Bayliner threads get started whenever a guy by the name
of Skipper make some stupid posts about them. He is not making any stupid
Bayliner posts so the name calling is limited to politics. ; ),
"JML" wrote in message
...
It's been a while since I checked out this newsgroup . . . But I just
noticed that there isn't a single thread of Bayliner bashing in this
Newsgroup right now. Did everybody simply get tired? Is everybody out
boating instead? Hmmm . . .

Just wanted share a story . . . I recently had the opportunity to spend a
day with a very talented surveyor (he's surveyed cruise yachts and
research
vessels). We spent an entire day hammering, tapping, inspecting, scoping,
and all that surveying jazz on a late-model Tiara. By the time he got done
inspecting the hull, he had drawn up more red marks on the hull of this
boat
than my term papers high school. He drew up D's for delams and V's for
voids
and lines and circles to show the extent of all the D's and V's. I almost
feinted because I thought that the deal for this boat was as good as done
prior to the survey. It was after all, a Tiara.

The surveyor told me that he's seen this type of structural flaws on even
Cabos and Vikings. He didn't think that this type of delaminations and
voids
in the gel coat could be the result of any accident but rather came out of
the factory this way. Then I asked him, "Well, if a Tiara can come out of
the factory this way, what chances does a boat like Bayliner have?"

He smiled and told me that he has surveyed old Bayliners that didn't have
a
single flaw in the hull. He also told me that he surveyed one of those
large
Bayliner "Yachts" for a friend who actually ended up purchasing it. This
recent dialogue also made me think of 18 year old Bayliner in my marina
that
REALLY does look great. At this rate, that boat will be in that same slip
for another 18 years . . .

Hey, I'm not going to tell anybody that I would rather be chillin' out in
a
Bayliner instead of a Bertram but I am now a firm believer in the fact
that
in boating, a close and thorough survey of the boat is much more important
than brand names, urban legends, and the many humorous and at times
informative rantings that are found on this newsgroup. I hope that this
info
can be of some help to newbies out there . . .

J

JML wrote:
This
recent dialogue also made me think of 18 year old Bayliner in my marina that
REALLY does look great. At this rate, that boat will be in that same slip
for another 18 years . . .

Well, not using a boat keeps it from busting apart, eh?



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

I for one agree. I have seen some junk Sea Rays in the past. All in how it
was made on any given day and how it is maintained.


--
Tony
My boats and autos - http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com



"JML" wrote in message
...
It's been a while since I checked out this newsgroup . . . But I just
noticed that there isn't a single thread of Bayliner bashing in this
Newsgroup right now. Did everybody simply get tired? Is everybody out
boating instead? Hmmm . . .

Just wanted share a story . . . I recently had the opportunity to spend a
day with a very talented surveyor (he's surveyed cruise yachts and
research
vessels). We spent an entire day hammering, tapping, inspecting, scoping,
and all that surveying jazz on a late-model Tiara. By the time he got done
inspecting the hull, he had drawn up more red marks on the hull of this
boat
than my term papers high school. He drew up D's for delams and V's for
voids
and lines and circles to show the extent of all the D's and V's. I almost
feinted because I thought that the deal for this boat was as good as done
prior to the survey. It was after all, a Tiara.

The surveyor told me that he's seen this type of structural flaws on even
Cabos and Vikings. He didn't think that this type of delaminations and
voids
in the gel coat could be the result of any accident but rather came out of
the factory this way. Then I asked him, "Well, if a Tiara can come out of
the factory this way, what chances does a boat like Bayliner have?"

He smiled and told me that he has surveyed old Bayliners that didn't have
a
single flaw in the hull. He also told me that he surveyed one of those
large
Bayliner "Yachts" for a friend who actually ended up purchasing it. This
recent dialogue also made me think of 18 year old Bayliner in my marina
that
REALLY does look great. At this rate, that boat will be in that same slip
for another 18 years . . .

Hey, I'm not going to tell anybody that I would rather be chillin' out in
a
Bayliner instead of a Bertram but I am now a firm believer in the fact
that
in boating, a close and thorough survey of the boat is much more important
than brand names, urban legends, and the many humorous and at times
informative rantings that are found on this newsgroup. I hope that this
info
can be of some help to newbies out there . . .

J

"Well, if a Tiara can come out of
the factory this way, what chances does a boat like Bayliner have?"


An automotive analogy: In the many discussions of Daimler's
merger-with/purchase-of Chrysler, Daimler let it be known that quality
improvement was one of the things they felt they brought to the table. In
retrospect, it's turned out to be dramatically untrue. In recent years,
Chrysler has been building pretty solid cars, and Mercedes Benz has been
producing some of the worst reliability in it's class of competition.

That doesn't mean Daimler cars stink. They don't. But, high price and luxury
appointments are not a guaranteed forumla for producing reliable products It's
entirely possible to have the Chrysler Voyager with a $17,000 sticker price
fulfill it's mission far better than a $40,000 Mercedes ML320.

Sure, factor in brand reputation when making your choice, but educate yourself,
talk to other owners, get a survey, and don't assume that a high-end brand will
deliver what you want any more than a low end brand won't. Buyers on both ends
of the market need to be diligent.


-- Rich Stern
www.nitroowners.com - The Nitro and Tracker Owners Web Site
www.mypontoon.com - The Pontoon Boat Web Site
www.fishingreportdatabase.com - The Fishing Report Database
www.mysporttrac.com - The Sport Trac Web Site

Wow . . . I can't believe that a Bayliner discussion in this newsgroup
survived an entire day with sarcastic remarks from only two people. I think
this might be a new trend . . .

In regards to the Bayliner in my Marina "never being used". The fellow in my
Marina with the 18 year old Bayliner has a coastal map of New England in his
cabin. He's got it marked up with numerous "flags" from the tip of Maine
down to Rhode Island. OK, he has yet to take it down to Florida during the
winter months but how many people take their 20 something boats on long
cruises like that? He does have a "secret" to keeping his boat running well
for so long but he is also a competent mechanic with a real "working"
garage.

In regards to me being a boat dealer. . . Well that would be my dream job.
Maybe someday after I retire from what I am doing now . . . Hmm. . . I would
relocate to Florida and cruise the Bahamas all season long. Wait a sec! I'd
have no time to sell boats! Forget that, I'd rather boat all day long! Now I
think I'd hate to be a dealer. . .

I heard a rumor Baylinler is going out of business?

JML wrote in message ...
Wow . . . I can't believe that a Bayliner discussion in this newsgroup
survived an entire day with sarcastic remarks from only two people. I think
this might be a new trend . . .

In regards to the Bayliner in my Marina "never being used". The fellow in my
Marina with the 18 year old Bayliner has a coastal map of New England in his
cabin. He's got it marked up with numerous "flags" from the tip of Maine
down to Rhode Island. OK, he has yet to take it down to Florida during the
winter months but how many people take their 20 something boats on long
cruises like that? He does have a "secret" to keeping his boat running well
for so long but he is also a competent mechanic with a real "working"
garage.

In regards to me being a boat dealer. . . Well that would be my dream job.
Maybe someday after I retire from what I am doing now . . . Hmm. . . I would
relocate to Florida and cruise the Bahamas all season long. Wait a sec! I'd
have no time to sell boats! Forget that, I'd rather boat all day long! Now I
think I'd hate to be a dealer. . .


At least half of the boats I saw on the lake the other day were
Bayliners. Filled with happy folks, tube pulling, fishing, etc. Before
some resident union hack bashes my location, I will note that we are
in the Essex, CT area, not bumfokk kansas. If you really pay attention
to the posts about these boats, you will find that most of the bashers
are those who can afford much more boat.. really gets to the old
problem where the "havs" are getting sick of the "have not's" being
able to access the same facilities. I just love hearing those with 30
footers or Hats bashing the poor young families who just want to enjoy
the water too!

"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
JML wrote in message
...
Wow . . . I can't believe that a Bayliner discussion in this newsgroup
survived an entire day with sarcastic remarks from only two people. I
think
this might be a new trend . . .

In regards to the Bayliner in my Marina "never being used". The fellow
in my
Marina with the 18 year old Bayliner has a coastal map of New England in
his
cabin. He's got it marked up with numerous "flags" from the tip of Maine
down to Rhode Island. OK, he has yet to take it down to Florida during
the
winter months but how many people take their 20 something boats on long
cruises like that? He does have a "secret" to keeping his boat running
well
for so long but he is also a competent mechanic with a real "working"
garage.

In regards to me being a boat dealer. . . Well that would be my dream
job.
Maybe someday after I retire from what I am doing now . . . Hmm. . . I
would
relocate to Florida and cruise the Bahamas all season long. Wait a sec!
I'd
have no time to sell boats! Forget that, I'd rather boat all day long!
Now I
think I'd hate to be a dealer. . .


At least half of the boats I saw on the lake the other day were
Bayliners. Filled with happy folks, tube pulling, fishing, etc. Before
some resident union hack bashes my location, I will note that we are
in the Essex, CT area, not bumfokk kansas. If you really pay attention
to the posts about these boats, you will find that most of the bashers
are those who can afford much more boat.. really gets to the old
problem where the "havs" are getting sick of the "have not's" being
able to access the same facilities. I just love hearing those with 30
footers or Hats bashing the poor young families who just want to enjoy
the water too!

And if you go into East Greenwich Bay, the joint is "infested" with
Sea Rays. And go through East Passage of Narragansett Bay and
the place is infested with old twelve meter sailing yachts with Kevlar
main sails that cost more than my Contender did. Go up the West
Passage and you can't move for all the wall-to-wall Trophy center
consoles. Or head off Newport Beach for some fluke and have
to play dodge'em with the 60 foot yachts run by foreign captains
who could care less if you are out there in a 20 foot Ranger
center console trying to fish the reef. ;)

I've said it before and I believe this - if it works for you, you can
afford it and have some fun - then be careful and have fun.

And to tell the truth, my youngest kids first boat is a Bayliner, I
bought them one of those cheapo inboard Bayliner specials -
they love it and it's not a half bad little boat for just running
around with, pulling a tube, water-skiing, etc. They can tow
it with the boy's Ranger and they use it constantly. They
pay the registration, insurance and fuel - they get experience
trailering, launching, recovering a boat - they go places they
might not otherwise go - in short, they are having fun. They
don't even fight over it generally taking a pack mentality to
it's use (everybody to the beach for the day) when they have
conflicting dates, they work it out with "deals" - I have yet to
hear a bitch about either one over the boat.

So, it's a win-win for everybody me included because in
another year or so I'll let them take the bigger boats out and
about.

For me, Bayliner is a decent boat - does what I want it to.

Later,

Tom