John H wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:34:47 -0400, DSK wrote:

John H wrote:
Any conservative who *was* a liberal *is* a neoconservative. Why is Webster not
sufficient as a source any longer?

So, if this definition is correct, then Bush & Cheney not to mention
Wolfowitz etc etc all *used* to be liberals?

Interesting. When was this, exactly?

DSK

Doug, I didn't make up the definition. Go he

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ve&x=10 &y=13

I have no reason to think the dictionary got it wrong. If Bush, et al, are
neoconservatives, then, by definition, they were former liberals who are now
espousing political conservatism.

If they are not former liberals, then they are not neoconservatives, by
definition.


John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


What you are is an intellectually lazy, simple-minded fool.

Harry Krause wrote:

jim-- wrote:

tug, tug...yank, yank....dance for me Krause, I am your puppet master. LOL!



You keep repeating that, crap-for-brains, but only you and your circle
jerk of righties believe it, and only because most of you are dumb as
doorknobs.


In a way, krause is about as big an idiot as b'asskisser. Deny, deny, deny.

-- Charlie

John H wrote:
Doug, I didn't make up the definition. Go he

I did not say that you did.

If they are not former liberals, then they are not neoconservatives, by
definition.

If they describe themselves as neoconservatives, or prominent self-named
neoconservatives say that they are, then are they lying or are they just
plain stupid?

Here's an interesting little tidbit
http://www.antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=2806

Also note that the pundits at 'New Century' describe themselves as
neoconservatives, and they have the biggest influence on Bush & Cheney
(outside of Halliburton or Saudi Arabia).

DSK

He must believe that all the democrats are so stupid they actually believe
his BS. They might agree with his politics, but even they know he is one
sick puppy.


"Charles" wrote in message
...


Harry Krause wrote:

jim-- wrote:

tug, tug...yank, yank....dance for me Krause, I am your puppet master.
LOL!



You keep repeating that, crap-for-brains, but only you and your circle
jerk of righties believe it, and only because most of you are dumb as
doorknobs.


In a way, krause is about as big an idiot as b'asskisser. Deny, deny,
deny.

-- Charlie

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:41:02 -0400, DSK wrote:

John H wrote:
Doug, I didn't make up the definition. Go he

I did not say that you did.

If they are not former liberals, then they are not neoconservatives, by
definition.

If they describe themselves as neoconservatives, or prominent self-named
neoconservatives say that they are, then are they lying or are they just
plain stupid?

Here's an interesting little tidbit
http://www.antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=2806

Also note that the pundits at 'New Century' describe themselves as
neoconservatives, and they have the biggest influence on Bush & Cheney
(outside of Halliburton or Saudi Arabia).

DSK

Perhaps they were liberals as high school or college students?

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

John H wrote:
Perhaps they were liberals as high school or college students?

Perhaps. Or maybe even younger. But with their consistently bad memory
and addiction to contradiction, I wouldn't take *their* word for it.

It seems most likely to me that Dick Cheney was a money grubbing fascist
right from the cradle. So how is he a "neoconservative" by this definition?

DSK

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:14:31 -0400, DSK wrote:

John H wrote:
Perhaps they were liberals as high school or college students?

Perhaps. Or maybe even younger. But with their consistently bad memory
and addiction to contradiction, I wouldn't take *their* word for it.

It seems most likely to me that Dick Cheney was a money grubbing fascist
right from the cradle. So how is he a "neoconservative" by this definition?

DSK

If he was not formerly liberal, then he is not, by definition, neoconservative.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!

John H wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:14:31 -0400, DSK wrote:

John H wrote:
Perhaps they were liberals as high school or college students?

Perhaps. Or maybe even younger. But with their consistently bad memory
and addiction to contradiction, I wouldn't take *their* word for it.

It seems most likely to me that Dick Cheney was a money grubbing fascist
right from the cradle. So how is he a "neoconservative" by this definition?

DSK

If he was not formerly liberal, then he is not, by definition, neoconservative.

John H


Definition of someone with rigid personality...see Herring, John.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
Please Chuckie, whats your definition of a neocon?

(Since you asked)

Rather than a person who is newly conservative, (which a neocon may or may
not
be), a neocon is a person who subscribes to the "new" conservatism.

The new conseratism is a black vs. white philosophy. All things are either
very
good, or very wicked. The new conservatism, like all philosophies, defines
its
own values as the "very good" values and all others as the "very wicked".
All
values are extreme in neoconservatism. The Commander in Chief (they seldom
refer to him anymore as the president) is God's Chosen Leader for the
American
People, and those who oppose or even question Him are aiding and abetting
our
rapidly increasing number of enemies.

Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Savage, and others epitomize the voices of
neoconservatism. It is a narrow minded and hateful, self congratulatory
and
autovindicated system of belief.

However, before all four conservatives who will even bother to read this
pick
up the nearest flame-thrower and come back with the moral-equivalency
excuses
about liberals do this, this, and this.......

Not all conservatives are neocons. There are a handful of traditional
conservatives left in the world. The traditional conservatives are shocked
at
the current size of the federal government and the dismal state of
government
fiscal affairs. The traditional conservatives respect dissent,
(recognizing
that at times it is their own voices that will be those of dissent, rather
than
majority) and are not trapped by binary thinking. I have a very high
regard for
traditonal, thoughtful, contemplative, rational conservatives.

The neo con says, "You're either with me, or against me!" The traditional
conservative says, "We either agree, or we need to work out a solution
that
will be at least somewhat acceptable to all sides. It could be that
neither of
us is *absolutely* right, and that there is more truth in the middle than
on
either extreme."

So, no. A neocon isn't somebody who "used to be a liberal but saw the
light".
(That's a fairly binary concept, that all people are either liberal or
conservative, anyway). A neocon is a binary thinker who used to be a
liberal,
moderate, or traditional conservative but who has been blinded by the
propaganda and bulldung. Not exactly the same thing. :-)

(You asked)

I am going to have to toss your definition by the side due to the fact that
it is more a political diatribe than a definition of a word. In fact, why
don't we use the definition that m-w.com has for neoconservative just to
make it easier for everyone to stay on the same page.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...eoconservative

Main Entry: neo·con·ser·va·tive
Pronunciation: -k&n-'s&r-v&-tiv
Function: noun
: a former liberal espousing political conservatism
- neo·con·ser·va·tism /-v&-"ti-z&m/ noun
- neoconservative adjective

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
John H wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:27:10 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

John H wrote:

If a traditional conservative was a liberal, then he/she is a
neoconservative.
Perhaps you mean to say that Rush, Coulter, etc. are right wing
extremists. I
don't agree with that, but unless they were former liberals, which
they may have
been, then they aren't neoconservatives.

Fortunately for you, you don't have to qualify in knowledge of modern
English in order to babysit as a sub...

Harry, you've shown your colors. Goodbye.

John H

On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD
on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay!


John, it isn't my problem that you are a simple-minded fool, lazy, and
cannot figure out the modern-day meaning of a word in common usage. It
is, however, a problem for the school district where you sub. That and
your disdain for the black students in the schools where you sub make
you quite a piece of work.

Great you can now add situational definitions to your contributions to
society.

If you weren't so intellectually lazy and working so hard at being
disengenuous, you'd know that "neoconservative refers to the extremist
right-wing ideology of the current Republican leadership which, though
it sprung out of the conservative movement, isn't conservative at all in
any traditional sense (in that radicalism is, by definition, not
conservative). This definition seems to be the dominant one."

Please provide a reputable lexical source that defines neoconservative as
you do?

No cite for you. Easy enough to find.

Meaning, Harry is lazy and can't support his argument!