"Shawn Willden" wrote in message
...
Gould 0738 wrote:

So, my questions to any who care to answer a Is Fred right that the
automotive part is just unsafe and unacceptable?

Absolutely.
Don't go anywhere in that boat until you replace the carb and the
non-marine fuel connections. Better check your alternator, too.

Thanks. Not the answer I wanted, and I'll continue seeking opinions, but
it
really sounds to me like I need to dig up another grand. I got the boat
for around $500 under book... sounds like I paid $500 too much.

Thanks for the suggestion about the altenator, too. I'm pretty sure it's
the original part, but I'll check it.

The reason that marine carbs, alternators, etc etc developed over the
years was not because somebody wanted to make a big buck selling
specialized parts. It's because gasoline vapors in an enclosed
environment
can be *explosive*. The combination of screwball fuel lines and an
automotive carb has turned your boat into a floating bomb.

That makes a lot of sense.

Shawn.

Consider yourself lucky/smart.

At least you didn't blow yourself up on your floating bomb.

$500.00 is cheap.



db

Bob D. wrote:

In article , jps
wrote:

You'd look for a comparable 4bbl to the one on the engine now.

jps

Good point.

Right. Only problem is, it makes buying one over the web kinda hard for
someone like me who doesn't really understand which end goes up.

Guess I'd better look into return policies :-)

Shawn.

"Shawn Willden" wrote in message
...
Bob D. wrote:

In article , jps
wrote:

You'd look for a comparable 4bbl to the one on the engine now.

jps

Good point.

Right. Only problem is, it makes buying one over the web kinda hard for
someone like me who doesn't really understand which end goes up.

Guess I'd better look into return policies :-)

That is why you go buy a book on boat repairs. There are some real good
guides that will go into engine, drives and some general boat repair. I
would go to your local boat yard and look around. Most pull parts before
they junk boats or look on ebay or look in you phone book for used marine
parts. These kind of stores carry almost everything from hoses to
replacement gauges. I bet you can get everything you need for a reasonable
amount.

mark

"Shawn Willden" wrote

I think I recently screwed myself by buying a boat without having someone
with a clue look it over.

Don't feel like the "Lone Ranger", Shawn. I did the same thing. Hope it
makes you feel better knowing you are not alone. :-/

Fred is right, but he's charging you an arm and a leg.


"Bob D." wrote in message
...
Shawn,

I bout a project boat two years ago which did not have a carb. I found a
place, Champion Parts, which sells remanufactured alternators, starters,
carbs and water pumps. I paid $230 without exchange for a rochester 4bbl
with remote choke, and they delivered immediately as promised!

By the looks of it, the original one for your applcation (5.0L) will cost
about $185 without exchange. Do it yourself, have the proper setup and
save about $600-$800 in the process!

The URL:

http://www.chanpionparts.net

"Shawn Willden" wrote in message
...
I think I recently screwed myself by buying a boat without having someone
with a clue look it over. That being the case, I'm trying to decide just
how badly screwed I am and what I can/should do about it.


When I got it home and started really looking into it, I noticed that
there
was no spark arrestor on the carb. I also found out that local (Utah)
regulations and basic good sense require a spark arrestor, so I set out
about trying to get one. To do this, I went to a local marine shop.
Because I mentioned the carb was not stock, the owner, a guy named Fred,
wanted to look at it to see what exactly I had, so he could tell me what
part I needed.

Fred's immediate reaction upon looking at the motor was "I will not touch
that, and I wouldn't ride in your boat". The reason? Well, there were
several, but they all boil down to a rather nasty hack job done on the
engine to replace the carb.

First, the carb on the engine is not a marine Holley 4BBL, it's an
automotive Rochester 4BBL, complete with all sorts of vacuum tubes that
are
not normally used on marine engines.

Next, Fred questioned the installation of three different fuel lines. The
line from the fuel pump into the carb, which was originally steel, has
been
removed and replaced with rubber hose without a hose barb, or even a
clamp!
I don't know squat about engines, much less marine engines, but even I
understand that a line that carries pressurized fuel should be a bit more
secure than that. Another line between pump and carb which is yellow in
color and is some kind of overflow line (I didn't get this part very
clearly) is installed in the wrong place, though he says it should work.
The line normally attaches to a fitting on the spark arrestor. Finally,
the line from the fuel tank to the fuel pump is a lightweight plastic
tubing, which Fred says should be something called "A1 marine-grade hose".

Finally, there were various other hoses and wires that had been cut and
plugged or just disconnected and left hanging, because they were for the
previous carb setup and aren't needed for the new one.


Now, Fred seems like a pretty straight-up guy, but he also wants to sell
me
some stuff, so I'm mildly skeptical. On the other hand, I do *not* want
to
take my family out in a boat that is likely to blow up, and it's clear
even
to me that there are real problems. The fuel line into the carb, for
example; if that popped loose and started spraying fuel into the engine
compartment, the result could be rather spectacular.

So, my questions to any who care to answer a Is Fred right that the
automotive part is just unsafe and unacceptable? Even if it's safe, are
there other disadvantages? Would it be adequate to merely replace the
hoses with proper ones and install them correctly?



Count your blessings that you found Fred, who knows the Federal laws
concerning inboard gas engines. Too many so called mechanics and DIY's do
not. Because gasoline is so explosive in an enclosed environment such as a
bilge and engine compartement, there are a bunch of laws concerning spark
protection, fuel leakage, and the correct installation procedures. The
statutes are found in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 33, Part 183
which deals with recreational boats. You need to have Coast Guard approved
parts to make the boat legal to operate. Starters, alternators, ignition
systems, carbs, fuel lines, pumps, filters, etc. are all subject to fire and
spark resistance tests. You owe a debt of graditude to Fred. He possibly
saved or life, the life of your loved ones, and any innocent bystanders.

Trust me, burning boats and charred bodies are not pretty.

Bill Grannis
service manager

In article , Shawn Willden
wrote:


Right. Only problem is, it makes buying one over the web kinda hard for
someone like me who doesn't really understand which end goes up.

Guess I'd better look into return policies :-)

Shawn.

A few things, Shawn.

Get in touch with the owner you bought the boat from. DO NOT be
confrontational. Do not tell him the problems you are having. Simply
and politely ask him what he did in changing the carburetor setup, and if
he has the old parts available. If they're just sitting in his garage
he'll probably let them go cheap, if not free. While your at it,
enthusiastically ask what other "great modifications" he made to the boat.
If, despite your best efforts to be non-confrontational, the guy acts like
a prick, send him roadkill on a daily/weekly/monthly basis until catharsis
is acheived.

Call a marine place and explain the situation to them. Ask if the intake
manifold needed to be changed to accomodate the bad moddification, of if
there was just an adapter plate used. Ask if the Holley that is on there
can be directly replaced with a holly marine or rochester marine
counterpart. Call an aftermarket supplier like Champion (can you tell I
was pleased with them) and ask if you purchase multiple carbs, if you can
return the one(s) you don't use.

Don't feel bad. Even people who have years of experience with boats wind
up with problems they don't anticipate when buying used. Odds are if
your experienced helper wasn't a marine mechanic or surveyor they too
would have overlooked the non-marine carb problem (except for the spark
arrestor, that's pretty obvious to most powerboaters).

Buying a boat is a very emotional experience. In fact it's alot like
taking on a wife. You see her, fall in love, and will do anything to have
her. Your eyes are closed to many realities such as, can you afford to
have her? Can you afford to keep her? Can you faithfully rely upon her?
Your actual purchase is your marriage. Your first trip is your honeymoon,
and your first problem is the reality of marriage. For some couples the
reality of marriage hits before or during the honyemoon. Too many harsh
realities, and you fall out of love, with your broker acting as the
attorney.

So Shawn, you wanted her, you married her, and now the honeymoon is over.
Now open your eyes to what you have to do (money and/or time) to make this
marriage work for you, or cut your losses and get away from the bitch
ASAP, and find another.

Even if you find another, realize that monies will be spent. Even the
best boat, like any woman, is NEVER indefinitely satisfied with the status
quo. Additional monies will have to be spent somewhere down the road to
keep her. It may be less money than you current boat, which may be
acceptable to you.

No matter what boat you purchase, having to spend additional monies is all
but a truism in the pursuit of boating. If you cannot accept this fact,
you may need to consider joining the "tree hugger" monestary, and take a
vow of nautical celibacy :^)

Bob Dimond

Oh, and one more thing, Shawn.

Consider Fred, they guy who looked at your boat, the marriage councilor.
You can save money and work things out without fred, but it will require
more time, effort, and sacrifice on your part.

Remember, "it's all about her" now :^)

Bob Dimond

Billgran wrote:

Count your blessings that you found Fred, who knows the Federal laws
concerning inboard gas engines.

I do. Beyond that, even, I count my blessings that the through-transom
shift cable was corroded. If I hadn't been looking into that problem, I
never would have noticed the missing flame arrestor (since there was a
shiny plastic cover over the carb), and taken the boat in for Fred to look
at.

The
statutes are found in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 33, Part 183
which deals with recreational boats. You need to have Coast Guard approved
parts to make the boat legal to operate.

Thanks for the information. Do those Federal Regulations apply on inland
lakes, or only on ocean-going vessels? I've been looking at the Utah state
statutes.

Shawn.

Bob D. wrote:

Call a marine place and explain the situation to them. Ask if the intake
manifold needed to be changed to accomodate the bad moddification, of if
there was just an adapter plate used.

Dropped the boat off to have it looked at last night.

Call an aftermarket supplier like Champion (can you tell I
was pleased with them) and ask if you purchase multiple carbs, if you can
return the one(s) you don't use.

That's a good suggestion, thanks.

Odds are if your experienced helper wasn't a marine mechanic or surveyor
they too would have overlooked the non-marine carb problem (except for
the spark arrestor, that's pretty obvious to most powerboaters).

Yep. It was my grandfather (a powerboater for 40+ years) who noticed the
missing arrestor, but he didn't realize the carb was wrong.

So Shawn, you wanted her, you married her, and now the honeymoon is over.
Now open your eyes to what you have to do (money and/or time) to make this
marriage work for you, or cut your losses and get away from the bitch
ASAP, and find another.

Hehe. Nice analogy. Actually, I'd think about cutting my losses on this
boat, but I doubt I could sell it easily if I told prospective buyers about
the problems and I couldn't live with myself if I didn't tell them. And I
still think this one will be a decent boat once I get it straightened out.

No matter what boat you purchase, having to spend additional monies is all
but a truism in the pursuit of boating.

Understood. The owner of one of the boats I looked at told me that boat is
really an acronym that stands for Break Out Another Thousand.

Shawn.