I think I recently screwed myself by buying a boat without having someone
with a clue look it over. That being the case, I'm trying to decide just
how badly screwed I am and what I can/should do about it.

The boat in question is a 1990 Bayliner 20' inboard/outboard, with a 5.0L V8
Mercruiser engine. It's obviously a pleasure boat for lakes, not a
seagoing vessel. When I bought it, the previous owner told me that he had
replaced the stock Rochester 2-barrel carburetor with a Holley 4-barrel,
for increased power. That seemed like a nice thing, right?

When I got it home and started really looking into it, I noticed that there
was no spark arrestor on the carb. I also found out that local (Utah)
regulations and basic good sense require a spark arrestor, so I set out
about trying to get one. To do this, I went to a local marine shop.
Because I mentioned the carb was not stock, the owner, a guy named Fred,
wanted to look at it to see what exactly I had, so he could tell me what
part I needed.

Fred's immediate reaction upon looking at the motor was "I will not touch
that, and I wouldn't ride in your boat". The reason? Well, there were
several, but they all boil down to a rather nasty hack job done on the
engine to replace the carb.

First, the carb on the engine is not a marine Holley 4BBL, it's an
automotive Rochester 4BBL, complete with all sorts of vacuum tubes that are
not normally used on marine engines.

Next, Fred questioned the installation of three different fuel lines. The
line from the fuel pump into the carb, which was originally steel, has been
removed and replaced with rubber hose without a hose barb, or even a clamp!
I don't know squat about engines, much less marine engines, but even I
understand that a line that carries pressurized fuel should be a bit more
secure than that. Another line between pump and carb which is yellow in
color and is some kind of overflow line (I didn't get this part very
clearly) is installed in the wrong place, though he says it should work.
The line normally attaches to a fitting on the spark arrestor. Finally,
the line from the fuel tank to the fuel pump is a lightweight plastic
tubing, which Fred says should be something called "A1 marine-grade hose".

Finally, there were various other hoses and wires that had been cut and
plugged or just disconnected and left hanging, because they were for the
previous carb setup and aren't needed for the new one.

Fred's recommendation was this: replace the automotive carb with a
remanufactured Rochester 4BBL with an electric choke (the original 2BBL had
an electric choke, so the lead is there); put a proper spark arestor on it;
replace all of the hoses with the proper types and connect them properly;
and finally get rid of all the blasted vacuum tubes. He said he could do
it for between $800 and $1000, and he says that until it's done, he would
not consider the boat safe.

Now, Fred seems like a pretty straight-up guy, but he also wants to sell me
some stuff, so I'm mildly skeptical. On the other hand, I do *not* want to
take my family out in a boat that is likely to blow up, and it's clear even
to me that there are real problems. The fuel line into the carb, for
example; if that popped loose and started spraying fuel into the engine
compartment, the result could be rather spectacular.

So, my questions to any who care to answer a Is Fred right that the
automotive part is just unsafe and unacceptable? Even if it's safe, are
there other disadvantages? Would it be adequate to merely replace the
hoses with proper ones and install them correctly? Are Fred's prices
reasonable? He's quoting $400-$500 for a remanufactured Rochester 4BBL,
about $100 for the spark arrestor, and the remaining $300-$500 is for hoses
and labor.

Thanks for your input/flames/guffaws (at my foolishness),

Shawn.

Shawn,

I bout a project boat two years ago which did not have a carb. I found a
place, Champion Parts, which sells remanufactured alternators, starters,
carbs and water pumps. I paid $230 without exchange for a rochester 4bbl
with remote choke, and they delivered immediately as promised!

By the looks of it, the original one for your applcation (5.0L) will cost
about $185 without exchange. Do it yourself, have the proper setup and
save about $600-$800 in the process!

The URL:

http://www.chanpionparts.net

So, my questions to any who care to answer a Is Fred right that the
automotive part is just unsafe and unacceptable?

Absolutely.
Don't go anywhere in that boat until you replace the carb and the non-marine
fuel connections. Better check your alternator, too.

The reason that marine carbs, alternators, etc etc developed over the years was
not because somebody wanted to make a big buck selling specialized parts. It's
because gasoline vapors in an enclosed environment can be *explosive*. The
combination of screwball fuel lines and an automotive carb has turned your boat
into a floating bomb.

Gasoline boats can be acceptably safe, *if* the proper equipment and
precautions are in place.

Even if it's safe, are
there other disadvantages? Would it be adequate to merely replace the
hoses with proper ones and install them correctly?

Not unless you can modify the carb itself to marine specs.


Are Fred's prices
reasonable? He's quoting $400-$500 for a remanufactured Rochester 4BBL,
about $100 for the spark arrestor, and the remaining $300-$500 is for hoses
and labor.

Will depend on your local market. I don't know carb prices, but the labor rate
seems pretty reasonable. Marine mechanics all carry what I think of as the $100
tool box.
Just to get one on your boat, tool box in hand, is going to cost you at least
$100 one way or another. That's before the real work begins.

Do the right and safe thing. Fix your boat.

Gould 0738 wrote:

So, my questions to any who care to answer a Is Fred right that the
automotive part is just unsafe and unacceptable?

Absolutely.
Don't go anywhere in that boat until you replace the carb and the
non-marine fuel connections. Better check your alternator, too.

Thanks. Not the answer I wanted, and I'll continue seeking opinions, but it
really sounds to me like I need to dig up another grand. I got the boat
for around $500 under book... sounds like I paid $500 too much.

Thanks for the suggestion about the altenator, too. I'm pretty sure it's
the original part, but I'll check it.

The reason that marine carbs, alternators, etc etc developed over the
years was not because somebody wanted to make a big buck selling
specialized parts. It's because gasoline vapors in an enclosed environment
can be *explosive*. The combination of screwball fuel lines and an
automotive carb has turned your boat into a floating bomb.

That makes a lot of sense.

Shawn.

In article ,
says...
I think I recently screwed myself by buying a boat without having someone
with a clue look it over. That being the case, I'm trying to decide just
how badly screwed I am and what I can/should do about it.

The boat in question is a 1990 Bayliner 20' inboard/outboard, with a 5.0L V8
Mercruiser engine. It's obviously a pleasure boat for lakes, not a
seagoing vessel. When I bought it, the previous owner told me that he had
replaced the stock Rochester 2-barrel carburetor with a Holley 4-barrel,
for increased power. That seemed like a nice thing, right?

When I got it home and started really looking into it, I noticed that there
was no spark arrestor on the carb. I also found out that local (Utah)
regulations and basic good sense require a spark arrestor, so I set out
about trying to get one. To do this, I went to a local marine shop.
Because I mentioned the carb was not stock, the owner, a guy named Fred,
wanted to look at it to see what exactly I had, so he could tell me what
part I needed.

Fred's immediate reaction upon looking at the motor was "I will not touch
that, and I wouldn't ride in your boat". The reason? Well, there were
several, but they all boil down to a rather nasty hack job done on the
engine to replace the carb.

First, the carb on the engine is not a marine Holley 4BBL, it's an
automotive Rochester 4BBL, complete with all sorts of vacuum tubes that are
not normally used on marine engines.

Next, Fred questioned the installation of three different fuel lines. The
line from the fuel pump into the carb, which was originally steel, has been
removed and replaced with rubber hose without a hose barb, or even a clamp!
I don't know squat about engines, much less marine engines, but even I
understand that a line that carries pressurized fuel should be a bit more
secure than that. Another line between pump and carb which is yellow in
color and is some kind of overflow line (I didn't get this part very
clearly) is installed in the wrong place, though he says it should work.
The line normally attaches to a fitting on the spark arrestor. Finally,
the line from the fuel tank to the fuel pump is a lightweight plastic
tubing, which Fred says should be something called "A1 marine-grade hose".

Finally, there were various other hoses and wires that had been cut and
plugged or just disconnected and left hanging, because they were for the
previous carb setup and aren't needed for the new one.

Fred's recommendation was this: replace the automotive carb with a
remanufactured Rochester 4BBL with an electric choke (the original 2BBL had
an electric choke, so the lead is there); put a proper spark arestor on it;
replace all of the hoses with the proper types and connect them properly;
and finally get rid of all the blasted vacuum tubes. He said he could do
it for between $800 and $1000, and he says that until it's done, he would
not consider the boat safe.

Good advice from Chuck.

My bet is if you shop around either your own area or the net you'll find
a replacement carb for less than Fred quotes and perhaps you'll be able
to sell the automotive unit you've got. Spark arrestors can be bought
used and there's no difference.

That'd make you feel a little better about the surprise.

Then you can either do the work yourself or have Fred do it.

jps

Bob D. wrote:

By the looks of it, the original one for your applcation (5.0L) will cost
about $185 without exchange.

That's certainly much better than $400-$500.

Do it yourself, have the proper setup and save about $600-$800 in the
process!

Hmm, not sure if I want to go there, though :-) I can't say I'm not
mechanically inclined because I do okay when forced, but I can say I really
hate mucking about with that stuff.

http://www.chanpionparts.net

That's http://www.championparts.net, right?

Thanks for the tip!

Shawn.

Bob D. wrote:

By the looks of it, the original one for your applcation (5.0L) will cost
about $185 without exchange.

Question: Which carb were you thinking was right for me? It looks like the
one listed for a 5.0L is a 2BBL (MC60). Is it not possible to get a 4BBL
for this engine? It looks like most of the 4BBL carbs listed are remote
choke, not electric choke; am I right in assuming that "remote choke" means
some sort of mechanical connection, rather than electrical? I also notice
that there's no choke switch/lever on my control console, is that because
the electric choke is managed automatically somehow?

Sorry for the flood of questions... :-)

Shawn.

I'll define right for you as the original carb. Of course you can go to a
4BBL but you'll use more fuel at higher RPMs and there may be installation
issues.

The electric choke *might* be engaged by pushing in the ignition key.

Last but not least, yes, the website is http://www.championparts.net

Installing a carb is no big deal. If I can do it, anyone can!


In article , Shawn Willden
wrote:

Bob D. wrote:

By the looks of it, the original one for your applcation (5.0L) will cost
about $185 without exchange.

Question: Which carb were you thinking was right for me? It looks like the
one listed for a 5.0L is a 2BBL (MC60). Is it not possible to get a 4BBL
for this engine? It looks like most of the 4BBL carbs listed are remote
choke, not electric choke; am I right in assuming that "remote choke" means
some sort of mechanical connection, rather than electrical? I also notice
that there's no choke switch/lever on my control console, is that because
the electric choke is managed automatically somehow?

Sorry for the flood of questions... :-)

Shawn.

In article , jps
wrote:

You'd look for a comparable 4bbl to the one on the engine now.

jps

Good point.

In article ,
says...
Bob D. wrote:

By the looks of it, the original one for your applcation (5.0L) will cost
about $185 without exchange.

Question: Which carb were you thinking was right for me? It looks like the
one listed for a 5.0L is a 2BBL (MC60). Is it not possible to get a 4BBL
for this engine? It looks like most of the 4BBL carbs listed are remote
choke, not electric choke; am I right in assuming that "remote choke" means
some sort of mechanical connection, rather than electrical? I also notice
that there's no choke switch/lever on my control console, is that because
the electric choke is managed automatically somehow?

Sorry for the flood of questions... :-)

Shawn.

Yes, remote choke means mechanical. Electric choke manages itself.

My expectation is that if the previous owner went from 2bbl to 4bll he
may have also changed out the intake manifold (in order to accommodate
the 4bbl).

You'd look for a comparable 4bbl to the one on the engine now.

jps