hi guys..went to a used boat show the other day. saw a 23 foot american
marine. clean boat, sails a bit worn but useable. looking for a boat to
learn to sail on. anyone ever heard of these critters??? pros, cons?? thanks
for any input. regards, j.d.

if you want to learn sailing get a dinghy between 10' and 17' (Flying Jr.,
Snipe, Laser, Lido, Starfish, El Toro, etc.) - they are great and they'll
respond well to any little changes. And most important join a sailing club
and take some classes.

"jds" wrote in message
news:N%j0f.69$i%.10@fed1read07...
hi guys..went to a used boat show the other day. saw a 23 foot american
marine. clean boat, sails a bit worn but useable. looking for a boat to
learn to sail on. anyone ever heard of these critters??? pros, cons??
thanks
for any input. regards, j.d.

"jds" wrote in message
news:N%j0f.69$i%.10@fed1read07...
hi guys..went to a used boat show the other day. saw a 23 foot american
marine. clean boat, sails a bit worn but useable. looking for a boat to
learn to sail on. anyone ever heard of these critters??? pros, cons??
thanks for any input. regards, j.d.
Depending on the cost of the boat, worn sails could be an issue because
sails can be expensive. I went looking for info on this boat and not find
much (though I did not spend much time looking I will admit) and it is
important to know what you are buying when you go to buy a sailboat. Things
like boat displacement, ballast ratio, capsize ratio, keel type, beam
width, overall length, length of water line, type of auxiliary power (gas
or diesel) and hours on engine if known, sail area and types of sails that
come with the purchase, and boat layout (can you stand in it? how
comfortable will you sleep? ventilation for hot days? is the galley easy to
use? storage area? how easily can you walk from the stern to the bow? can
you see in all directions easily when piloting?) are just a few that come
to mind. As for the boat itself, you need to know when the last bottom job
was done, if the lifeline stanchions are solid where they connect to the
deck, if the deck has any soft places on it (very important), how well it
will single hand, any motor maintenance information if available, how much
water she takes and if so, where from (freshwater from rain? or is it
coming in through a through hole or faulty seacock or something) if the
window and hatch seals are in good shape, flooring condition, if the head
and holding tank are in good shape (check for leaks, functionality, and
stinky hoses) upholstery condition, condition of all sea cocks and hoses
coming from through holes, rigging condition (rigging replacement is
expensive) wood trim condition and so forth. Does it come with a trailer? A
survey can be done for you, they usually cost into the hundreds and are
worth it if you are not experienced with what to look for. Sometimes,
hidden things can make the difference between sailing and sinking. Your
best bet for learning to sail is to either find a sailor or group of
sailors in your area that can teach you how to sail the class of boat you
want to buy (and take some serious time to learn all about it) or to start
with a smaller boat as the last post suggested and learn yourself and
gradually move up to larger boats. A small boat will teach you a lot fast.
There are always good deals on sailboats if you shop for a while. Sailing
is a wonderful way of life and welcome to it, these groups are great
resources for sailors all over the world. I have some good sailing
resources posted on my Spirit 28 site he
http://www.spirit28.com/Resources.html if you want more information.

Cheers!

- A -

thanks for the replies guys.

jose: appreciate the advice, but im 58 and i think ill learn on a little
bigger boat than a dingy. probly would learn faster, but would like at least
a little comfort.

alan s. appreciate the input on what to look for. price of the boat is 2500
american. standing rigging looks ok. didnt see any rust or fraying. some of
the sheets will need replacing, not a big deal on a boat this size. sails
are useable for what i need them to do, only plan to use this thing for a
year or so. head is a porta-potty, not ideal but adequete(spelling?). seat
cushions are in very good shape. small v-berth is long enough and cushions
good. crawled up in and pretty comfortable. have no idea when the bottom was
last done. looks like the windows have been leaking a bit. deck seems solid.
stove is an old alchohol unit i dont think works, but also has a propane
barbie that works. has a 7.5 honda outboard for power. sink pump seems to
have friction, but water tank was empty so dont know if it works or not. in
any case not an expensive fix. if nothing else, carry some on board. boat
has been in fresh water and will be slipped at lake mead in las vegas, no
trailer. have not checked the water tanks or the seacocks, good idea and i
will check it out. hatch isnt leaking. i did a google on it and came up
empty. looked in yachtworld and found 2 of em with very little info on
ballast etc. i will be using it for weekends and day sails to get my sea
legs and learn to sail. this will not be my last boat, only a means to an
end. there is also a cal 25 for sale at a good price, but i cant stand up in
that one. the american marine has a step down floor and has quite a bit of
headroom in it for such a small craft. i would guess 5'10 or so. cant stand
straight up, but not bent over at the waist as in the cal. boat shows well
for its age, deck and hull not stress cracked, interior in very good shape.
rudder and tiller in decent shape. rudder needs some cleaning, so would
assume the rest of the bottom does also. anyway, thanks again for reading
and advice. noted and taken. best regards, j.d.

"jds" wrote in message
news:z9F0f.218$i%.157@fed1read07...
thanks for the replies guys.

jose: appreciate the advice, but im 58 and i think ill learn on a little
bigger boat than a dingy. probly would learn faster, but would like at
least a little comfort.

alan s. appreciate the input on what to look for. price of the boat is
2500 american. standing rigging looks ok. didnt see any rust or fraying.
some of the sheets will need replacing, not a big deal on a boat this
size. sails are useable for what i need them to do, only plan to use this
thing for a year or so. head is a porta-potty, not ideal but
adequete(spelling?). seat cushions are in very good shape. small v-berth
is long enough and cushions good. crawled up in and pretty comfortable.
have no idea when the bottom was last done. looks like the windows have
been leaking a bit. deck seems solid. stove is an old alchohol unit i dont
think works, but also has a propane barbie that works. has a 7.5 honda
outboard for power. sink pump seems to have friction, but water tank was
empty so dont know if it works or not. in any case not an expensive fix.
if nothing else, carry some on board. boat has been in fresh water and
will be slipped at lake mead in las vegas, no trailer. have not checked
the water tanks or the seacocks, good idea and i will check it out. hatch
isnt leaking. i did a google on it and came up empty. looked in yachtworld
and found 2 of em with very little info on ballast etc. i will be using it
for weekends and day sails to get my sea legs and learn to sail. this will
not be my last boat, only a means to an end. there is also a cal 25 for
sale at a good price, but i cant stand up in that one. the american marine
has a step down floor and has quite a bit of headroom in it for such a
small craft. i would guess 5'10 or so. cant stand straight up, but not
bent over at the waist as in the cal. boat shows well for its age, deck
and hull not stress cracked, interior in very good shape. rudder and
tiller in decent shape. rudder needs some cleaning, so would assume the
rest of the bottom does also. anyway, thanks again for reading and advice.
noted and taken. best regards, j.d.
2500 USD is not a bad price for a 23 foot weekender in decent shape, but it
never fails, you will buy it and next week a better deal will stroll right
past you. Those old alcohol stoves are in use all over the world but
alcohol doesn't burn very hot and it produces a lot of moisture when it
burns. It can be kind of scary to handle as well due to it's volatility and
removing it from the boat for testing is strongly advised. I have some
information on my web site about alcohol stoves, you might be interested in
looking at it, the link is http://spirit28.com/Repairs.html . I use my
grill more than anything, you will love that. Hanging out at anchor in a
cove with a couple of friends cooking up some fajitas while the sun goes
down is nice. Since there is ample cabin room and headway it makes me
wonder if it is a fixed keel boat. If so, you might want to determine the
draft so you don't bottom out. I don't know what your lake is like but a
depth finder is a nice thing to have. Nothing wrong with a porta-potty,
tending a pump out head can be a pain and often costs money. Leaking
windows, hatches and companionways is a common problem with sailboats, an
electric bilge pump is a good thing to have. I always wire my boats with an
auxiliary battery that I can switch too if I choose. Those foot pumps on
older boats are notorious for leaking as well. If the seacocks are brass,
they will most likely outlive the boat and they usually have a way to oil
them so they don't get stiff. Fresh hoses every now and then are a good
idea. Sometimes old hoses get stiff and crack and have been known to sink a
boat on many more than one occasion. Wiggle the life line stanchions to be
sure that the deck is not rotting away between the interior and exterior
fiberglass. Most of the time there is wood between the interior and
exterior fiberglass on the deck and the lifeline stanchions or the rails
are the first place it starts to rot out because of the screws. If the deck
is obviously real soft at the base of any life line stanchions that is what
is happening. It can be fixed by drilling holes and injecting fiberglass
resin but if there is a substantial amount of overly soft decking, I would
keep shopping. 7.5 horses is fine for your auxiliary power. I would put on
a mask and go look at the bottom once just to see what the blister
situation is, that might give you an idea of when the last bottom job was
done. I am having a bottom job done on my Spirit 28 and it costs 40 dollars
a foot plus the cost of the paint (bottom paint is expensive, I bought
Trinidad Ultra and it was 186 dollars a gallon) and the whole thing will
likely run up to just under a couple of grand with a compound and wax job.
If I was buying your American Marine 23 for 2500 USD and I was only
planning on sailing her for a year, I would not do a bottom job unless I
absolutely had too simply because of the cost. Everyone that I know that
has opted to do a bottom job themselves has come back and said that they
would have someone else do it the next time around, it is a big, nasty,
toxic job. Sailing is one of those things that some people are natural at
and some are not. You may find that it comes really easy to you or it may
prove to be a bit more of a challenge than you expected. Either way, some
one on one sailing lessons from a good instructor will teach you the basics
in a relatively short time. Best of luck! and have a great time with her! I
can be contacted through the www.spirit28.com web site if you ever want to
be in touch. Oh, one other thing, there is a document at the bottom of my
documents page on the Spirit 28 site called "resources". This document is
an excellent place to find old boat parts and services.

Cheers!

- A -

I think this boat was renamed the Spirit 23.
G

"jds" wrote in message
news:z9F0f.218$i%.157@fed1read07...
thanks for the replies guys.

jose: appreciate the advice, but im 58 and i think ill learn on a little
bigger boat than a dingy. probly would learn faster, but would like at
least
a little comfort.

alan s. appreciate the input on what to look for. price of the boat is
2500
american. standing rigging looks ok. didnt see any rust or fraying. some
of
the sheets will need replacing, not a big deal on a boat this size. sails
are useable for what i need them to do, only plan to use this thing for a
year or so. head is a porta-potty, not ideal but adequete(spelling?). seat
cushions are in very good shape. small v-berth is long enough and cushions
good. crawled up in and pretty comfortable. have no idea when the bottom
was
last done. looks like the windows have been leaking a bit. deck seems
solid.
stove is an old alchohol unit i dont think works, but also has a propane
barbie that works. has a 7.5 honda outboard for power. sink pump seems to
have friction, but water tank was empty so dont know if it works or not.
in
any case not an expensive fix. if nothing else, carry some on board. boat
has been in fresh water and will be slipped at lake mead in las vegas, no
trailer. have not checked the water tanks or the seacocks, good idea and i
will check it out. hatch isnt leaking. i did a google on it and came up
empty. looked in yachtworld and found 2 of em with very little info on
ballast etc. i will be using it for weekends and day sails to get my sea
legs and learn to sail. this will not be my last boat, only a means to an
end. there is also a cal 25 for sale at a good price, but i cant stand up
in
that one. the american marine has a step down floor and has quite a bit of
headroom in it for such a small craft. i would guess 5'10 or so. cant
stand
straight up, but not bent over at the waist as in the cal. boat shows well
for its age, deck and hull not stress cracked, interior in very good
shape.
rudder and tiller in decent shape. rudder needs some cleaning, so would
assume the rest of the bottom does also. anyway, thanks again for reading
and advice. noted and taken. best regards, j.d.

"Gordon" wrote in message
...
I think this boat was renamed the Spirit 23.
G

If this boat is the same as the ones that are listed for sale on
Yachtworld then it is a different boat than the Spirit 23 (which are often
called North Americans, if you have interest in the history of the North
American or Spirit sailboat you can find it he
http://www.spirit28.com/History.html). The Spirit 23 can be seen he
http://www2.netdoor.com/~weaton/na23.html The American Marine 23 listed on
Yachtworld can be seen he http://tinyurl.com/aok3l .

yea the spirit is a different boat. the one at yachtworld looks just like
the one im looking at except this one has a porta-potty. other than that ,
interior layout is the same. stove , ice box, same place. step down floor
etc. there isnt a housing for a swing keel or center board, so must be a
fixed keel. dont think depth will be a problem. a friend has a boat in the
same marina and theres 60' of water under his keel. lake mead goes from
shallow to way deep very shortly. the visitors slips are maybe 50 yards from
shore and ive seen some 35 foot plus sailboats parked there. thanks a lot
for all the help fellas. going to take a closer look this weekend, check the
bilge, etc. i did check the stanchions are rock solid, all of em. the boat
really does appear to be very sound. the owner moved from vegas to pahrump
and really doesnt have time for it anymore. hell , its probably 100 miles
from there to the lake. alan: lake mead is a pretty big lake. nothing like
the great lakes, but pretty good sized. think its the biggest man made lake
in the country, could be wrong. think powel has more shoreline cuz of all
the little fingers, but think mead is bigger in acreage. look up
boulder/hoover dam, thats lake mead behind it. anyway, once again thanks for
all the input and ill get back after i take a better look. best regards,
j.d.