Thanking those who responded. The fact about isolated bilges seems
clarified, and this is important for me to figure what is going on. Also, I
gather the contained shower sump keeps the soapy runoff out of the bilge. OK
there. The source of the water is now the concern to me. The shower has not
been used this season, and water has appeared in the bilge after heavy
rains. This particular rain event was the most I've seen while not at the
boat (Around 10") In the past and after looking briefly this time, I've
never found obvious leakage in the cabin, (like ports) . It IS rainwater,
however, since it appears only after rain! All summer we had no rain - no
water in the bilge. Thanks again. I'll advise if I find some further
answers.
Marty on the NJ Shore
Sent 9:47 PM, Tuesday, October 18th, 2005

"Marty Schulze" wrote in message
...
Thanking those who responded. The fact about isolated bilges seems
clarified, and this is important for me to figure what is going on. Also,
I gather the contained shower sump keeps the soapy runoff out of the
bilge.

IF it is, in fact, operational, it is designed to collect shower drainage
*and other drainage that is routed to the sump* (extremely important
concept) and therefore keep it out of the forward bilge compartment. If it
has gone non-functional, it will, in fact, overflow and fill the compartment
with all drainage sources plumbed to the sump. You must inspect the sump.
You will likely see more than one inlet hose going into the sump, and only
one outlet hose. They should all be labeled. Since you admit that you
haven't used the shower in quite some time, you absolutely need to test the
sump pump to see if it is operational. Run some water through the shower
drain and see if the pump is turned on via the internal float switch being
floated by the shower runoff. If it does not turn on, which I believe is a
distinct possibility, you have found your problem. If the sump is
operational, then you know you have to look elsewhere for the water source.

By design, there is no way for water to enter the forward compartment
directly. That's why there's no pump in the compartment other than the one
in the sump. That doesn't mean that something hasn't gone wrong somewhere,
and is allowing water to enter the compartment, but it's not as likely as
water entering the sump by design, but the sump not pumping the water
overboard and therefore allowing it to overflow into the compartment.
Here's some possible scenarios:

1. Rain water is leaking into the head area (shower), possibly through an
open or defective portlight, and is draining by design into a non-functional
sump, then overflowing into the compartment.

2. Rain water is draining by design from one of the other plumbed drain
sources into a non-functional sump, then overflowing into the compartment.

3. One of the inlet hoses to the sump has come off the sump or is otherwise
leaking its contents into the compartment before it gets to the sump.

4. Rain water is leaking into the cabin, soaking the cabin floor, then
filling the compartment (reverse thinking from your assumption that the
water is first going into the compartment and then overflowing onto the
cabin floor).

5. Rain water is indeed leaking directly into the forward bilge compartment
due to some defect that has appeared somewhere in the boat, and then
overflowing onto the cabin floor.

Understand this. These self contained pumps are cheaply constructed and
very much prone to failure. Your boat is a 1998 model. If your sump hasn't
failed, it's past due. Mine is a 1999 model, and the wiring in the sump has
failed twice. And if the pump in the sump is non-functional, any water
entering the sump WILL overflow into the compartment, and then overflow onto
the cabin floor. I've had it happen twice. The first step in your
diagnosis should be to determine if the sump pump is functional. It's an
extremely easy thing to test. Takes two minutes by running water into the
sump from the shower drain and waiting for the pump to activate. Also, the
sump is designed to be serviced by the owner. There is a filter of sorts
inside the sump that collects hair and soap scum, and needs to be cleaned
periodically to keep water flowing correctly into the sump.

If the sump is operational, then your best approach would be to have someone
stand on the foredeck (and just about everywhere else) with a water hose,
spraying down the boat with as much water volume as can be mustered, while
you are in the cabin looking for leaks. The leak could manifest itself
directly in the forward bilge compartment, but allow for other possibilites.
The water could be taking a circuitous route to the compartment.

3. One of the inlet hoses to the sump has come off the sump or is
otherwise leaking its contents into the compartment before it gets to the
sump.


Could also be the outlet hose from the sump has gone defective or come
loose, resulting in the sump pumping the water from the sump into the bilge
compartment. This would be obvious when testing the sump and observing its
behavior. If the pump activates, make sure the pumped water is making it
out the through-hull fitting overboard.

Also, when testing the sump, make sure your electrical switches, (battery
switches, etc.) are in the same position as when you are off the boat. The
sump should be wired directly to the batteries, just as with the aft bilge
pumps, making the switch positions irrelevant, but you never know for sure
unless you test. In other words, you want to make sure the sump has power
routed to it when the boat is in storage or idle condition. Are the
batteries in good condition?

Does your boat have air conditioning? If so, do you leave it on while away
(assuming your boat is wet slipped)? I have seen a situation on a friend's
larger Sundancer where the drain on the pan of the AC unit was plugged or
partially plugged causing the pan to overflow and send water where it
shouldn't go. I know you think your problem is rain water, and it most
likely is, but understand that if your AC is left running during highly
humid conditions (like a warm summer rainstorm), a large amount of moisture
will be removed from the ambient air resulting in a significant amount of
water in the AC drain pan. A very remote possibility, but something to
think about if you are having difficulty finding the source from more likely
places.

Thanks for your suggestions. All are relavent and I'll be following-up over
the week-end. I am familiar with the sump "box", under the cabin stairs.
Stay tuned for an update Sunday night. Marty

"RG" wrote in message news:1Ck5f.3282$i%.408@fed1read07...

"Marty Schulze" wrote in message
...
Thanking those who responded. The fact about isolated bilges seems
clarified, and this is important for me to figure what is going on. Also,
I gather the contained shower sump keeps the soapy runoff out of the
bilge.

IF it is, in fact, operational, it is designed to collect shower drainage
*and other drainage that is routed to the sump* (extremely important
concept) and therefore keep it out of the forward bilge compartment. If
it has gone non-functional, it will, in fact, overflow and fill the
compartment with all drainage sources plumbed to the sump. You must
inspect the sump. You will likely see more than one inlet hose going into
the sump, and only one outlet hose. They should all be labeled. Since
you admit that you haven't used the shower in quite some time, you
absolutely need to test the sump pump to see if it is operational. Run
some water through the shower drain and see if the pump is turned on via
the internal float switch being floated by the shower runoff. If it does
not turn on, which I believe is a distinct possibility, you have found
your problem. If the sump is operational, then you know you have to look
elsewhere for the water source.

By design, there is no way for water to enter the forward compartment
directly. That's why there's no pump in the compartment other than the
one in the sump. That doesn't mean that something hasn't gone wrong
somewhere, and is allowing water to enter the compartment, but it's not as
likely as water entering the sump by design, but the sump not pumping the
water overboard and therefore allowing it to overflow into the
compartment. Here's some possible scenarios:

1. Rain water is leaking into the head area (shower), possibly through an
open or defective portlight, and is draining by design into a
non-functional sump, then overflowing into the compartment.

2. Rain water is draining by design from one of the other plumbed drain
sources into a non-functional sump, then overflowing into the compartment.

3. One of the inlet hoses to the sump has come off the sump or is
otherwise leaking its contents into the compartment before it gets to the
sump.

4. Rain water is leaking into the cabin, soaking the cabin floor, then
filling the compartment (reverse thinking from your assumption that the
water is first going into the compartment and then overflowing onto the
cabin floor).

5. Rain water is indeed leaking directly into the forward bilge
compartment due to some defect that has appeared somewhere in the boat,
and then overflowing onto the cabin floor.

Understand this. These self contained pumps are cheaply constructed and
very much prone to failure. Your boat is a 1998 model. If your sump
hasn't failed, it's past due. Mine is a 1999 model, and the wiring in the
sump has failed twice. And if the pump in the sump is non-functional, any
water entering the sump WILL overflow into the compartment, and then
overflow onto the cabin floor. I've had it happen twice. The first step
in your diagnosis should be to determine if the sump pump is functional.
It's an extremely easy thing to test. Takes two minutes by running water
into the sump from the shower drain and waiting for the pump to activate.
Also, the sump is designed to be serviced by the owner. There is a filter
of sorts inside the sump that collects hair and soap scum, and needs to be
cleaned periodically to keep water flowing correctly into the sump.

If the sump is operational, then your best approach would be to have
someone stand on the foredeck (and just about everywhere else) with a
water hose, spraying down the boat with as much water volume as can be
mustered, while you are in the cabin looking for leaks. The leak could
manifest itself directly in the forward bilge compartment, but allow for
other possibilites. The water could be taking a circuitous route to the
compartment.

A friend had the identical boat with the identical symptom. The leak wasn't
obvious but after removing the trim we found moisture around one of the oval
ports. Removed port, resealed, and reinstalled. Problem solved. It was a
bugger to find.
JIMinFL
"Marty Schulze" wrote in message
...
Thanking those who responded. The fact about isolated bilges seems
clarified, and this is important for me to figure what is going on. Also,
I gather the contained shower sump keeps the soapy runoff out of the
bilge. OK there. The source of the water is now the concern to me. The
shower has not been used this season, and water has appeared in the bilge
after heavy rains. This particular rain event was the most I've seen while
not at the boat (Around 10") In the past and after looking briefly this
time, I've never found obvious leakage in the cabin, (like ports) . It IS
rainwater, however, since it appears only after rain! All summer we had no
rain - no water in the bilge. Thanks again. I'll advise if I find some
further answers.
Marty on the NJ Shore
Sent 9:47 PM, Tuesday, October 18th, 2005

Good tip. A project due up is to remove the oval port trims so as to replace
the screens. I'll hasten that project now and follow up on your suggestions.
Thanks.


"JIMinFL" wrote in message
nk.net...
A friend had the identical boat with the identical symptom. The leak wasn't
obvious but after removing the trim we found moisture around one of the
oval ports. Removed port, resealed, and reinstalled. Problem solved. It was
a bugger to find.
JIMinFL
"Marty Schulze" wrote in message
...
Thanking those who responded. The fact about isolated bilges seems
clarified, and this is important for me to figure what is going on. Also,
I gather the contained shower sump keeps the soapy runoff out of the
bilge. OK there. The source of the water is now the concern to me. The
shower has not been used this season, and water has appeared in the bilge
after heavy rains. This particular rain event was the most I've seen
while not at the boat (Around 10") In the past and after looking briefly
this time, I've never found obvious leakage in the cabin, (like ports) .
It IS rainwater, however, since it appears only after rain! All summer we
had no rain - no water in the bilge. Thanks again. I'll advise if I find
some further answers.
Marty on the NJ Shore
Sent 9:47 PM, Tuesday, October 18th, 2005

"Marty Schulze" wrote in message
...
Good tip. A project due up is to remove the oval port trims so as to
replace the screens. I'll hasten that project now and follow up on your
suggestions. Thanks.


I've replaced the screens on mine a couple of times. Not too difficult.
The dealer sells a kit with the pre-cut screen and a new rubber gasket.
Only other thing you need is weather strip glue or RTV sealant. The job is
done from the inside.

"Marty Schulze" wrote in message
...
Good tip. A project due up is to remove the oval port trims so as to
replace
the screens. I'll hasten that project now and follow up on your
suggestions.
Thanks.


Stop!! Don't remove the port trims. I made that misteak this summer - what
a job to get it back together. Instead, just remove the rubber gasket from
the inside, replace the screen, add some adhesvie and reinsert the gasket.
Relatively simple job if you don't try removing the trim. I used basic
plastic screening that I picked up at my local hardware store - same for the
adhesive.

Sandy K.
1997 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer.

Thanks for your advice recently. Yesterday I attempted to remove the
head portlight by removing the screws on the inside and outside frams,
but the frames and the port remained intact. Not wanting to force
anything off, I stopped. Does your friend have any advice on how he
removed his? I did not remove the screws holding the latches on. Marty
in NJ



JIMinFL wrote:
A friend had the identical boat with the identical symptom. The leak wasn't
obvious but after removing the trim we found moisture around one of the oval
ports. Removed port, resealed, and reinstalled. Problem solved. It was a
bugger to find.
JIMinFL
"Marty Schulze" wrote in message
...
Thanking those who responded. The fact about isolated bilges seems
clarified, and this is important for me to figure what is going on. Also,
I gather the contained shower sump keeps the soapy runoff out of the
bilge. OK there. The source of the water is now the concern to me. The
shower has not been used this season, and water has appeared in the bilge
after heavy rains. This particular rain event was the most I've seen while
not at the boat (Around 10") In the past and after looking briefly this
time, I've never found obvious leakage in the cabin, (like ports) . It IS
rainwater, however, since it appears only after rain! All summer we had no
rain - no water in the bilge. Thanks again. I'll advise if I find some
further answers.
Marty on the NJ Shore
Sent 9:47 PM, Tuesday, October 18th, 2005

Most likely the port is being held by adhesive sealant. You may need to do a
little scrapeing and prying to break the seal.
JIMinFL
"Marty" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for your advice recently. Yesterday I attempted to remove the
head portlight by removing the screws on the inside and outside frams,
but the frames and the port remained intact. Not wanting to force
anything off, I stopped. Does your friend have any advice on how he
removed his? I did not remove the screws holding the latches on. Marty
in NJ



JIMinFL wrote:
A friend had the identical boat with the identical symptom. The leak
wasn't
obvious but after removing the trim we found moisture around one of the
oval
ports. Removed port, resealed, and reinstalled. Problem solved. It was a
bugger to find.
JIMinFL
"Marty Schulze" wrote in message
...
Thanking those who responded. The fact about isolated bilges seems
clarified, and this is important for me to figure what is going on.
Also,
I gather the contained shower sump keeps the soapy runoff out of the
bilge. OK there. The source of the water is now the concern to me. The
shower has not been used this season, and water has appeared in the
bilge
after heavy rains. This particular rain event was the most I've seen
while
not at the boat (Around 10") In the past and after looking briefly this
time, I've never found obvious leakage in the cabin, (like ports) . It
IS
rainwater, however, since it appears only after rain! All summer we had
no
rain - no water in the bilge. Thanks again. I'll advise if I find some
further answers.
Marty on the NJ Shore
Sent 9:47 PM, Tuesday, October 18th, 2005