wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Tamaroak" wrote in message
...

Your addition is poor. I think what bush could really do to improve his
position as one of the worst presidents we have ever had is to get
cheney
to resign for health reasons, appoint John McCain as VP (who should
have
been president) and then resign himself.

I don't recall the "chain of death", but I think that if the VP's gone,
we
get the speaker of the house, right? And, unbelievably, the postmaster
general is somewhere in the hierarchy as well.

The postmaster general couldn't possibly be as bad for this country as
Bush!


You've seen the increase in mailing costs over the last few years? Why does
the Post Office need to sponsor a bike racing team?

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of this
crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then there is no
consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the other side of
the story out into the public.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of an
organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece of
informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered. Any
conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.

I would like to point out that both Libby and Clinton were charged/impeached
for lying to the grand jury. If Libby did lie, he should be convicted, the
same as Clinton should have been convicted for lying to the Grand Jury. I
was not a supporter of impeaching Clinton, but I wish he could have been
charged and convicted after his term was over.


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not
leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly
ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of
this crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then there
is no consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the other
side of the story out into the public.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of
an organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece of
informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered. Any
conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.


Is it a crime to lie about something that isn't a crime?

The senate thought otherwise when it was about blow jobs.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:14:21 +0000, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:


Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly
ajar, and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious
nature could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a
conspiracy charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of
it.

I sort-of agree, but somebody is protecting somebody here and I am still
of the belief that this is much bigger than we might think. It's just that
Fitsgerald's mandate is limited and he's trying to figure a way around it.

I'm not sure his mandate was limited. Comey's clarification:

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/do...ry_06_2004.pdf


I think it involves more than one branch of government and some rather
highly placed officials beyond the circle that advises the President.
Fitzgerald knows it, he just can't get at it.

Also note the careful wording of Ms. Palme-Wilson's status at the CIA.
That in and of itself is interesting.

Clearly, there are many questions unanswered. This guy, Fitzgerald, is
very competent, scrupulous, and, in his past, quite tenacious. He holds
his cards quite close, as he should, and is very hard to read. I just
don't know. In my readings, Rove and Libby met before the leak. That
*could* be conspiracy. Libby learned of Plame's status from Cheney.
That would be legal, but . . . Was Cheney's involvement anything more?

Damn, I still want a report. ;-)

I found this article pretty interesting:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/200...N5bnN1YmNhdA--

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not
leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly
ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of
this
crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then there is
no
consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the other side
of
the story out into the public.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of
an
organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece of
informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered. Any
conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.

What he also need to know is at what point in the investigation was it
evident that the "Outing" law had not been violated. Seems to me, that
should have been the first step.

It is a crime to lie to a grand jury. Clinton admitted to lying, but the
crime was overlooked. That should not be justification to allow others to
lie to a grand jury.


"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not
leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly
ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of
this crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then
there is no consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the
other side of the story out into the public.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of
an organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece
of informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered.
Any conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.


Is it a crime to lie about something that isn't a crime?

The senate thought otherwise when it was about blow jobs.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:00:37 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

Nope, just reading the indictment. If you have read it, you will know
that there is still an unnamed "senior official in the White House" that
discussed Plame, "as a CIA employee" with Robert Novak.



The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of
this crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then there
is no consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the other
side of the story out into the public.

You keep mentioning that Wilson outed his wife. Perhaps you should have
shared this information with Fitzgerald. We could have avoided this nasty
business.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of
an organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece of
informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered. Any
conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:00:37 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

Nope, just reading the indictment. If you have read it, you will know
that there is still an unnamed "senior official in the White House" that
discussed Plame, "as a CIA employee" with Robert Novak.

If you want to talk about the hand the press had in this whole affair we can
go down that road. The press is not an innocent observer in this whole
affair. The press is in up to their eye-balls.

It could have happened the way Libby testified to in the GJ. It is possible
that the media participants decided to conspire to tell their own fabricated
story.

The real question is if this goes to trial will the members of the press
testify under oath in a court of law? If not, then Libby is off the hook
regardless of whether he did anything illegal or not. And, if Libby goes to
trial he should put Joe Wilson and Valarie Plame Wilson on the stand and
find out who authorized the trip and whether Joe Wilson every mentioned to
anyone that his wife worked at the CIA.

The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of
this crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then
there
is no consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the other
side of the story out into the public.

You keep mentioning that Wilson outed his wife. Perhaps you should have
shared this information with Fitzgerald. We could have avoided this nasty
business.

Fitzgerald did not say one way or the other during his press conference
yesterday, of which I watched the entire thing, that Valarie Plame Wilson
was an covert CIA agent. You can't expect to be under cover when you drive
in and out of the front gates of Langley everyday.

The biggest problem in this whole affair is Joe Wilson. He has taken every
oppourtunity, and tried to make some oppourtunities, to get in front of the
press and bitch and whine. The fact the Valarie Plame Wilson allowed herself
to be photographed for the infamous Vanity Fair magazine means that she was
not interested in being covert in the future and that she had no committment
to any of her previous sources to protect their identies at all costs.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of
an organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece
of
informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered. Any
conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.