The Daily NOYB Updater
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


President Bush Job Approval

Bush Job Approval

Strongly Approve 21%
Somewhat Approve 19%
Somewhat Disapprove 15%
Strongly Disapprove 44%

RasmussenReports.com

55% think the President is doing a satisfactory job. Not bad.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

"Tamaroak" wrote in message
...
Your addition is poor. snip

Capt. Jeff

Really?

Strongly Approve 21%
Somewhat Approve 19%
Somewhat Disapprove 15%

In my world that adds up to 55%

So what does it add up to for you?

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"Tamaroak" wrote in message
...

Your addition is poor. I think what bush could really do to improve his
position as one of the worst presidents we have ever had is to get cheney
to resign for health reasons, appoint John McCain as VP (who should have
been president) and then resign himself.

I don't recall the "chain of death", but I think that if the VP's gone, we
get the speaker of the house, right? And, unbelievably, the postmaster
general is somewhere in the hierarchy as well.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

Your addition is poor. I think what bush could really do to improve his
position as one of the worst presidents we have ever had is to get
cheney to resign for health reasons, appoint John McCain as VP (who
should have been president) and then resign himself. That way the world
would be rid of this chickenhawk AWOL deserter whose only goal in life
seems to be to further enrich his wealthy oil buddies.

Capt. Jeff

I had someone else note my "This Vet Wants to DUMP BUSH" t-shirt the
other day and comment, "You shouldn't give him such a hard time; he's
doing the best he can." And the sad part of it is that it's true.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

*JimH* wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


President Bush Job Approval

Bush Job Approval

Strongly Approve 21%
Somewhat Approve 19%
Somewhat Disapprove 15%
Strongly Disapprove 44%

RasmussenReports.com

55% think the President is doing a satisfactory job. Not bad.

Ummm, okay, I guess. Do you really think that 21+19=55?

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Tamaroak" wrote in message
...

Your addition is poor. I think what bush could really do to improve his
position as one of the worst presidents we have ever had is to get cheney
to resign for health reasons, appoint John McCain as VP (who should have
been president) and then resign himself.

I don't recall the "chain of death", but I think that if the VP's gone, we
get the speaker of the house, right? And, unbelievably, the postmaster
general is somewhere in the hierarchy as well.

The postmaster general couldn't possibly be as bad for this country as
Bush!

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:26:57 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:


Now, if the POTUS and VICE POTUS were both indicted and suddenly quit, I
suppose the chain would be operable. Maybe.

Except, it is my understanding that a President can't be indicted,
impeached, but not indicted.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:26:57 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:


Now, if the POTUS and VICE POTUS were both indicted and suddenly quit, I
suppose the chain would be operable. Maybe.

Except, it is my understanding that a President can't be indicted,
impeached, but not indicted.

Bush hasn't been before the special prosecutor...so there's no way he can be
indicted for perjury anyhow.

Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not leaking
Plame's name.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:26:57 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:


Now, if the POTUS and VICE POTUS were both indicted and suddenly quit, I
suppose the chain would be operable. Maybe.

Except, it is my understanding that a President can't be indicted,
impeached, but not indicted.

Former Clinton special counsel Lanny Davis is sticking up for Libby:

"He's completely innocent at this point. An indictment isn't a conviction"

Could it be because of Libby's ties to Clinton buddy Marc Rich?

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:18:45 -0400, " *JimH*" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...


President Bush Job Approval

Bush Job Approval

Strongly Approve 21%
Somewhat Approve 19%
Somewhat Disapprove 15%
Strongly Disapprove 44%

RasmussenReports.com

55% think the President is doing a satisfactory job. Not bad.

By your flawed method, 78% think the president is doing an
unsatisfactory job. That puts a whole new perspective on it. 78%.
Wow.

bb

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wrote in message
oups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Tamaroak" wrote in message
...

Your addition is poor. I think what bush could really do to improve his
position as one of the worst presidents we have ever had is to get
cheney
to resign for health reasons, appoint John McCain as VP (who should
have
been president) and then resign himself.

I don't recall the "chain of death", but I think that if the VP's gone,
we
get the speaker of the house, right? And, unbelievably, the postmaster
general is somewhere in the hierarchy as well.

The postmaster general couldn't possibly be as bad for this country as
Bush!


You've seen the increase in mailing costs over the last few years? Why does
the Post Office need to sponsor a bike racing team?

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of this
crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then there is no
consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the other side of
the story out into the public.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of an
organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece of
informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered. Any
conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

I would like to point out that both Libby and Clinton were charged/impeached
for lying to the grand jury. If Libby did lie, he should be convicted, the
same as Clinton should have been convicted for lying to the Grand Jury. I
was not a supporter of impeaching Clinton, but I wish he could have been
charged and convicted after his term was over.


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not
leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly
ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of
this crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then there
is no consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the other
side of the story out into the public.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of
an organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece of
informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered. Any
conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.


Is it a crime to lie about something that isn't a crime?

The senate thought otherwise when it was about blow jobs.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:14:21 +0000, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:


Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly
ajar, and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious
nature could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a
conspiracy charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of
it.

I sort-of agree, but somebody is protecting somebody here and I am still
of the belief that this is much bigger than we might think. It's just that
Fitsgerald's mandate is limited and he's trying to figure a way around it.

I'm not sure his mandate was limited. Comey's clarification:

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/do...ry_06_2004.pdf


I think it involves more than one branch of government and some rather
highly placed officials beyond the circle that advises the President.
Fitzgerald knows it, he just can't get at it.

Also note the careful wording of Ms. Palme-Wilson's status at the CIA.
That in and of itself is interesting.

Clearly, there are many questions unanswered. This guy, Fitzgerald, is
very competent, scrupulous, and, in his past, quite tenacious. He holds
his cards quite close, as he should, and is very hard to read. I just
don't know. In my readings, Rove and Libby met before the leak. That
*could* be conspiracy. Libby learned of Plame's status from Cheney.
That would be legal, but . . . Was Cheney's involvement anything more?

Damn, I still want a report. ;-)

I found this article pretty interesting:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/200...N5bnN1YmNhdA--

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not
leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly
ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of
this
crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then there is
no
consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the other side
of
the story out into the public.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of
an
organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece of
informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered. Any
conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.

What he also need to know is at what point in the investigation was it
evident that the "Outing" law had not been violated. Seems to me, that
should have been the first step.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

It is a crime to lie to a grand jury. Clinton admitted to lying, but the
crime was overlooked. That should not be justification to allow others to
lie to a grand jury.


"NOYB" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not
leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly
ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of
this crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then
there is no consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the
other side of the story out into the public.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of
an organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece
of informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered.
Any conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.


Is it a crime to lie about something that isn't a crime?

The senate thought otherwise when it was about blow jobs.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:00:37 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

Nope, just reading the indictment. If you have read it, you will know
that there is still an unnamed "senior official in the White House" that
discussed Plame, "as a CIA employee" with Robert Novak.



The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of
this crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then there
is no consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the other
side of the story out into the public.

You keep mentioning that Wilson outed his wife. Perhaps you should have
shared this information with Fitzgerald. We could have avoided this nasty
business.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of
an organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece of
informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered. Any
conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:00:37 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


Are you starting to see black helicopters everywhere.

Nope, just reading the indictment. If you have read it, you will know
that there is still an unnamed "senior official in the White House" that
discussed Plame, "as a CIA employee" with Robert Novak.

If you want to talk about the hand the press had in this whole affair we can
go down that road. The press is not an innocent observer in this whole
affair. The press is in up to their eye-balls.

It could have happened the way Libby testified to in the GJ. It is possible
that the media participants decided to conspire to tell their own fabricated
story.

The real question is if this goes to trial will the members of the press
testify under oath in a court of law? If not, then Libby is off the hook
regardless of whether he did anything illegal or not. And, if Libby goes to
trial he should put Joe Wilson and Valarie Plame Wilson on the stand and
find out who authorized the trip and whether Joe Wilson every mentioned to
anyone that his wife worked at the CIA.

The original charge of "outing" a CIA agent has is the basis for all of
this crap. Once it is determined that Mr. Wilson outed his wife then
there
is no consipiracy charge it is just normal politics of getting the other
side of the story out into the public.

You keep mentioning that Wilson outed his wife. Perhaps you should have
shared this information with Fitzgerald. We could have avoided this nasty
business.

Fitzgerald did not say one way or the other during his press conference
yesterday, of which I watched the entire thing, that Valarie Plame Wilson
was an covert CIA agent. You can't expect to be under cover when you drive
in and out of the front gates of Langley everyday.

The biggest problem in this whole affair is Joe Wilson. He has taken every
oppourtunity, and tried to make some oppourtunities, to get in front of the
press and bitch and whine. The fact the Valarie Plame Wilson allowed herself
to be photographed for the infamous Vanity Fair magazine means that she was
not interested in being covert in the future and that she had no committment
to any of her previous sources to protect their identies at all costs.

What we really need to know is who, meaning a person and not the name of
an organization, authorized Mr. Wilson's trip to Niger? Once that piece
of
informaiton is known then the next set of questions can be answered. Any
conspiracy charge should start at the CIA.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

"NOYB" wrote in message
nk.net...

Bush hasn't been before the special prosecutor...so there's no way he can
be indicted for perjury anyhow.

Bush has the perfect defense, no matter what happens: Nobody could decipher
what the **** he was trying to communicabrate.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

I think the Clinton Perjury was for lies in a regular court of law. Not to
a Grand Jury.

"Smith Smithers" wrote in message
...
I would like to point out that both Libby and Clinton were
charged/impeached for lying to the grand jury. If Libby did lie, he should
be convicted, the same as Clinton should have been convicted for lying to
the Grand Jury. I was not a supporter of impeaching Clinton, but I wish he
could have been charged and convicted after his term was over.


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:22:37 +0000, NOYB wrote:



Libby supposedly lied to the grand jury. That's the charge. Not
leaking
Plame's name.

Don't forget the obstruction of justice charge. I may point out that
Libby wasn't "the" leak. That honor belongs to "Official A", widely
thought to be Rove. Fitzgerald seems to have left the door slightly
ajar,
and I'm not sure where he is going. Potentially, my suspicious nature
could have these indictments leveraging Libby to include a conspiracy
charge with Official A, but then again, this may be the end of it.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

Bill McKee wrote:

I think...

....and that's far more than can be said for the Looney Left's barking
dogs.

--
Skipper

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:55:01 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


It could have happened the way Libby testified to in the GJ. It is
possible that the media participants decided to conspire to tell their own
fabricated story.

Of course, it could have. That's why there will be a trial, to ascertain
the truth. However, I would suggest if you think half a dozen reporters
decided to risk their jobs and jail time, just to get Libby, you are the
one who is seeing the black helicopters? It just doesn't make sense. Why
would they?

The real question is if this goes to trial will the members of the press
testify under oath in a court of law? If not, then Libby is off the hook
regardless of whether he did anything illegal or not. And, if Libby goes
to trial he should put Joe Wilson and Valarie Plame Wilson on the stand
and find out who authorized the trip and whether Joe Wilson every
mentioned to anyone that his wife worked at the CIA.

Well, they testified to the grand jury. Chances are, they will testify in
court. It is also, quite possible, that in court, the authorization of
the trip will be defined, although we might not hear the answer. That
answer, could be classified.


Fitzgerald did not say one way or the other during his press conference
yesterday, of which I watched the entire thing, that Valarie Plame Wilson
was an covert CIA agent. You can't expect to be under cover when you drive
in and out of the front gates of Langley everyday.

He may not have used the word covert, but he did say that Plame's
employment status was classified, both in his press release, and in the
indictment. He also added that her status was "not common knowledge
outside of the intelligence community". I would also point out, that you
can be under cover and drive in and out of Langley every day. It would
depend on what your cover is.

The biggest problem in this whole affair is Joe Wilson. He has taken every
oppourtunity, and tried to make some oppourtunities, to get in front of
the press and bitch and whine. The fact the Valarie Plame Wilson allowed
herself to be photographed for the infamous Vanity Fair magazine means
that she was not interested in being covert in the future and that she had
no committment to any of her previous sources to protect their identies at
all costs.

Somewhere, I read, that after her marriage to a US diplomat, it was
decided that Plame's profile was to high to be a successful NOC. It
seems, that part of her career, ended with her marriage. Regardless, her
status was still classified.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 21:01:40 +0000, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:


You do know who Jane Hamsher is right?

I didn't.

The Daily NOYB Updater
 

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:55:01 -0400, Bert Robbins wrote:


It could have happened the way Libby testified to in the GJ. It is
possible that the media participants decided to conspire to tell their
own
fabricated story.

Of course, it could have. That's why there will be a trial, to ascertain
the truth. However, I would suggest if you think half a dozen reporters
decided to risk their jobs and jail time, just to get Libby, you are the
one who is seeing the black helicopters? It just doesn't make sense. Why
would they?

They all want to re-live the "glory" of Water-gate. When NBC's Brian Wilson
was "interviewing" NBC's Tim Russert on Friday afternoon you see that Tim
was enjoying being in the middle of this whole thing. And, you can expect
that Tim will be very smug and arrogant during his show this morning.

The real question is if this goes to trial will the members of the press
testify under oath in a court of law? If not, then Libby is off the hook
regardless of whether he did anything illegal or not. And, if Libby goes
to trial he should put Joe Wilson and Valarie Plame Wilson on the stand
and find out who authorized the trip and whether Joe Wilson every
mentioned to anyone that his wife worked at the CIA.

Well, they testified to the grand jury. Chances are, they will testify in
court. It is also, quite possible, that in court, the authorization of
the trip will be defined, although we might not hear the answer. That
answer, could be classified.

Chances are they will testify in court! If they don't testify in court then
their testimony to the GJ is irrelavent.

The trip was classified? If it was the Joe Wilson should be in jail right
now for shooting off his mouth about a classified trip.



Fitzgerald did not say one way or the other during his press conference
yesterday, of which I watched the entire thing, that Valarie Plame Wilson
was an covert CIA agent. You can't expect to be under cover when you
drive
in and out of the front gates of Langley everyday.

He may not have used the word covert, but he did say that Plame's
employment status was classified, both in his press release, and in the
indictment. He also added that her status was "not common knowledge
outside of the intelligence community". I would also point out, that you
can be under cover and drive in and out of Langley every day. It would
depend on what your cover is.

Everyone's employment everywhere is classified. Was she covert at the time
or not? No, you can't be a cover agent when you drive in and out of the CIA
headquarters everyday of the week and when your husband introduces you as
his CIA agent wife.

The biggest problem in this whole affair is Joe Wilson. He has taken
every
oppourtunity, and tried to make some oppourtunities, to get in front of
the press and bitch and whine. The fact the Valarie Plame Wilson allowed
herself to be photographed for the infamous Vanity Fair magazine means
that she was not interested in being covert in the future and that she
had
no committment to any of her previous sources to protect their identies
at
all costs.

Somewhere, I read, that after her marriage to a US diplomat, it was
decided that Plame's profile was to high to be a successful NOC. It
seems, that part of her career, ended with her marriage. Regardless, her
status was still classified.

Classified as what?