In article ,
says...

Hi, I live in Europe, in the Netherlands. Thought maybe some of you
would be interested in a bystanders view on the us noise that is made
here...

Hi Len,

Thanks very much for your thoughts. Glad you've found the rantings
somewhat interesting.

I'm embarrassed that we cannot have the same outlook on taking care of
our less fortunate citizens, even knowing that there'll be waste in any
such system. You are right in that we're very divided. The US needs
some time to reconstruct or it will surely deconstruct.

Please share as you see fit. It would be very interesting to have folks
from Europe taking part in the discussions.

Also, we actually break out with some boating information now and again.

Cheers,

jps

Hi, I live in Europe, in the Netherlands. Thought maybe some of you
would be interested in a bystanders view on the us noise that is made
here...

I thought I'd get info about boats when I joined this group a few
weeks ago.
But I got an education that was far more interesting. In the beginning
that is, it was interesting to learn to understand the way of
reasoning of rep'and lib's and the way the one would drive a bus
through the others arguments.
In the developed world I've never seen a country that devided like the
us. Looks to me like the civil war was never ended but went on using
other means.

But I am glad this discussion is going on. And I am glad that a start
is made in acknowleding that a lifestyle of godfearing
self-sufficiency can easily become a caricature.

It's very interesting to see the similarity between the rep's yelling
"you're takin' down american values" and the muslim condemning one as
infidel.

I hope but don't expect that the US will stop its misplaced acting as
a superior body. The power inside to make this happen is totally
absent. And when I look at it in a reasonably pessimistic/realistic
way, the americans who would be competent enough to rise above the
fighting parties and could alter the situation would rather be found
dead then become part of this ridiculously derailed tv-show thats is
mistakingly seen as a political system.

And....
You don't have to point out the mistakes Europe makes.
We don't know how to fight like the us does, we have a clown for
president in Italy, a bookkeeper in Holland, a ventrilloquists doll in
Britain... We have difficulty becoming a union. We know that -in order
to maintain a certain level of civilisation- we have a system in which
we help the lesser priviliged and off course there will be some abuse
of that system
but we see that's simply a part of the costs of civilisation.
We accept being just one of the parties in the world and we're not a
purely selfish, manipulating superpower.

But what do we see when we look over the pond?
A country that rapidly alters from a dependable big brother with whom
one could achieve rational solutions into an irrational schizophrene
brother that more and more becomes a helpless
part of the problem and in time may need to be isolated in a
straightjacket.

And this is just for starters. I haven't even mentioned the
environment, the penalty court, the shortsightedness when it comes to
achieving peace, the selfishness mistakingly referred to
as selfsufficiency.

I wouldn't dare to fly an american flag when cruising abroad and not
because it poses a threat.

Thanks for reading my rambling...

Len

"Len" wrote in message
...
Hi, I live in Europe, in the Netherlands. Thought maybe some of you
would be interested in a bystanders view on the us noise that is made
here...
.....................snip....................


I totaly agree with you Len. Here in Canada we also get a view of the USA
that I am sure that the Americans themselves cannot see. Here is a little
story for your amusement. It may help you understand.


Once upon a time in the Kingdom of Heaven, God went missing for six days.
Eventually, Michael, the archangel found him resting on the seventh day. He
inquired if God, "Where have you been?" God sighed a deep sigh of
satisfaction and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds. "Look
Michael, look what I've made."
Archangel Michael looked puzzled and said, "What is it?"
"It's a planet" replied God. "And I've put LIFE on it. I'm going to call it
Earth and it's going to be a great place of balance."
"Balance?" inquired Michael, still confused.
God explained pointing to different parts of Earth, "For example, Northern
Europe will be a place of great opportunity and wealth, while Southern
Europe is going to be poor; the Middle East over there will be a hot spot.
Over there I've placed a continent of white people and over there is a
continent of black people." God then continued pointing to different
countries. "This one will be extremely hot and arid, while this one will be
very cold and covered in ice."
The Archangel impressed by Gods work pointed to a large land mass in the top
corner and asked, "What's that one?"
"Ah." said God. "That's Canada, the most glorious place n Earth. There are
beautiful mountains, lakes, rivers, streams, and an exquisite coastline. The
people from Canada are going to be modest, intelligent, and humorous and
they're going to be found traveling the world. They'll be extremely
sociable, hard working, high achieving, and they will be known as diplomats
and carriers of peace. I'm also going to give them superhuman, undefeatable
ice hockey players who will be admired and feared by all who come across
them."
Michael gasped in wonder and admiration, but then proclaimed, "What about
balance, God. You said there will be BALANCE!"
God replied wisely, "Wait until you see the loud-mouth *******s I'm putting
next to them."


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Len,
It was interesting and informative to read your viewpoint.


"Len" wrote in message
...
Hi, I live in Europe, in the Netherlands. Thought maybe some of you
would be interested in a bystanders view on the us noise that is made
here...

I thought I'd get info about boats when I joined this group a few
weeks ago.
But I got an education that was far more interesting. In the beginning
that is, it was interesting to learn to understand the way of
reasoning of rep'and lib's and the way the one would drive a bus
through the others arguments.
In the developed world I've never seen a country that devided like the
us. Looks to me like the civil war was never ended but went on using
other means.

But I am glad this discussion is going on. And I am glad that a start
is made in acknowleding that a lifestyle of godfearing
self-sufficiency can easily become a caricature.

It's very interesting to see the similarity between the rep's yelling
"you're takin' down american values" and the muslim condemning one as
infidel.

I hope but don't expect that the US will stop its misplaced acting as
a superior body. The power inside to make this happen is totally
absent. And when I look at it in a reasonably pessimistic/realistic
way, the americans who would be competent enough to rise above the
fighting parties and could alter the situation would rather be found
dead then become part of this ridiculously derailed tv-show thats is
mistakingly seen as a political system.

And....
You don't have to point out the mistakes Europe makes.
We don't know how to fight like the us does, we have a clown for
president in Italy, a bookkeeper in Holland, a ventrilloquists doll in
Britain... We have difficulty becoming a union. We know that -in order
to maintain a certain level of civilisation- we have a system in which
we help the lesser priviliged and off course there will be some abuse
of that system
but we see that's simply a part of the costs of civilisation.
We accept being just one of the parties in the world and we're not a
purely selfish, manipulating superpower.

But what do we see when we look over the pond?
A country that rapidly alters from a dependable big brother with whom
one could achieve rational solutions into an irrational schizophrene
brother that more and more becomes a helpless
part of the problem and in time may need to be isolated in a
straightjacket.

And this is just for starters. I haven't even mentioned the
environment, the penalty court, the shortsightedness when it comes to
achieving peace, the selfishness mistakingly referred to
as selfsufficiency.

I wouldn't dare to fly an american flag when cruising abroad and not
because it poses a threat.

Thanks for reading my rambling...

Len

I couldn't agree with you more, and apologize for squandering any degree
of respect that those in the rest of the world might have had for us at
one time.

I would love to just blame bush and his handlers, but am forced to also
add those stupid enough to vote for him to the list, as well as those
who didn't work hard enough to put him back mismanaging small business
and reaping the benefits of his rich friends and relatives where he belongs.

I would like to hope that this week is the beginning of the end of the
*******s, and would still move to Parry Sound, Ontario, if my wife would
go with me. (And I appreciate in advance those of you who are about to
say "And don't let the door his you in the ass on your way out!")

Capt. jeff

But what do we see when we look over the pond?
A country that rapidly alters from a dependable big brother with whom
one could achieve rational solutions into an irrational schizophrene
brother that more and more becomes a helpless
part of the problem and in time may need to be isolated in a
straightjacket.


Could it be because Europe is changing more then the U.S.? When euthenesia
is legal, quality of manufacturing is worse than ever, and strikes bring
down countries to stand still? Lets not even talk about the racism that is
on the rise, and anti-semitism is reaching pre wwii levels. England will put
you in jail for defending yourself against criminals in your own homes! Talk
about a legal system on its head.

I was born in Poland myself, and lived in Norway for a while. I will tell
you I would rather live in the U.S. then anywhere else. The kindness of
people, opportunities, and openess is amazing.

Dan,
The interesting thing about the gentleman's comments, is not the reality of
the situation, but the perception of reality.

His assessment of the US is a very common viewpoint in Europe.


"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

But what do we see when we look over the pond?
A country that rapidly alters from a dependable big brother with whom
one could achieve rational solutions into an irrational schizophrene
brother that more and more becomes a helpless
part of the problem and in time may need to be isolated in a
straightjacket.


Could it be because Europe is changing more then the U.S.? When euthenesia
is legal, quality of manufacturing is worse than ever, and strikes bring
down countries to stand still? Lets not even talk about the racism that
is on the rise, and anti-semitism is reaching pre wwii levels. England
will put you in jail for defending yourself against criminals in your own
homes! Talk about a legal system on its head.

I was born in Poland myself, and lived in Norway for a while. I will tell
you I would rather live in the U.S. then anywhere else. The kindness of
people, opportunities, and openess is amazing.

Len wrote:

The point here is can you take 5 seconds in which you stop pointing
back at me with all kinds of mirrorred critiques and have a good look
at how things are becoming in the us.

That mirror works both ways, Len. I'm afraid you misunderstand what's
going on over here. It's not about compassion, or lack of it, it's about
the thieving forced redistribution of wealth and real freedoms. We have
had our share of incompetent leadership; Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, etc.,
but we also have had true world leaders like Reagan. Our once great
Democrat party is no more, having been hijacked by radical socialists
and assorted special interests. Suspect you have your share of wackos
too (judging from the Aruba fiasco).

--
Skipper

I am proud we dutch have had the guts to *regulate* euthanasia.

I see your point. But once anything is government regulated, you have
abuses. What would stop a government from saying you retire at 60, you die
at 75, here is the place where you go to die. We are doing this because our
retirement funds are declining.

Len wrote:

In fact I've met several, dozens of canadians in Amsterdam.
All kinds of ages. Without an exeption: polite, friendly,
easy-connecting, interested in another culture/way of life.
No superficiality, no criticising the welfare system, no cowboy-style

You got a problem with cowboy style, pardner?

--
Skipper