Harry Krause wrote:

"I know what you're thinkin', punk. You're thinkin', did he fire six
shots or only five? And to tell you the truth, I forgot myself in all
this excitement. But bein' this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful
handgun in the world, and it'll blow your head clean off, you could ask
yourself a question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"

- Harry Callahan

Great line, great delivery, but inaccurate. The .454 Casull, for one.
was and is "more powerful."

Let's see here...The .44 Mag will "blow his head clean off", and the
..454 Casull is *more* powerful...does that really make a difference?

--
Skipper

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 01:39:30 +0000, Bill McKee wrote:


And loaded with wad cutters with the hollow bottom. With the bullet
upside down. Otherwise you kill some poor neighbor 3 houses away after
the bullet has gone through the intruder and a few walls.

Anyone familiar with frangible bullets? I'm guessing that's what the Air
Marshals were using.

http://www.frangiblebullets.com/

Harry Krause wrote:

Yes, the double action requires a determined trigger pull, while many
autos have hair triggers.

Hair trigger? You mean a trigger that requires an extremely light pull?
Almost any handgun can be modified so that it has what you probably mean
by "hair trigger." Trigger pulls on many revolvers are easily
adjustable. There are huge "sections" on many gunsmithing discussion
groups on lightening trigger pull on "sixguns" used in cowboy action
competition. Your premise is wrong, as is your conclusion. More
misinformed Skipper b.s.

Did you miss the mention of double action? Do you know what that means?
Next time, please put your brain in gear before engaging that keyboard.

Both my double action .38 Special and .357 S&Ws have a thumb safety.
Even my single action .44 Ruger has safety indents *between* the
chambered cartridges.

The handguns I shoot have a better safety.

Oh, I'm sure you have better 'stuff' than anyone else, Krause.

I keep my finger off the trigger until I am ready to fire. That way,
the gun cannot go off unless I make it go off.

And I'm sure you'll remember that in the heat of battle.

One of the Ruger semis I play with has a thumb safety. I never bother
with it. Again, if my finger is not inside the trigger guard,
I am not planning to shoot. If it is, I am about to shoot.

Must be a terrible burden to be so gifted, Krause.

Even though I had years of experience with shotguns before taking up
handguns, I still enrolled in an eight hour individual handgun training
course taught by a an experienced instructor. We spent most of the first
session on semi auto handgun safety, including clearing jams, stovepipes,
misfires, et cetera. The last hour of that first session was on the
range, where he'd hand me mags "with problems" to slap into the
handgun I was using.

Very commendable that you enrolled in a basic gun safety course.

On the outdoor ranges I visit, if the range master sees anyone walking
or standing around with their finger inside the trigger guard, they're
told to leave for the day.

You're allowed to walk away from shooting positions with a gun in your
hand AND clip or cylinder engaged? Interesting range master you have
there, Krause.

Methinks your handgun experience is like your boating experience,
Snipper. You haven't any.

Whatever.

BTW, J. Curtis Earl was an old family friend we knew for over 4 decades.
It was through him that I initially got involved in shooting sports. Do
you know who he was or about his guns?

--
Skipper

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:

Far more likely to fire an unintended round while aimed at the perp.
Both guns can kill, the double action is the safer gun in the hands of a
nervous owner...for obvious reasons. There must be the threat of bodily
harm *before* pulling the trigger.

Think about what you just said. "Far more likely to fire an unintended
round..."

Yes, the double action requires a determined trigger pull, while many
autos have hair triggers.

If you have a 6 shot revolver with 6 rounds loaded, it is ready to fire
if
you pull the trigger. Unless it's one of the newer ones with a built-in
key
lock, there is no safety. YOU are the safety.

Both my double action .38 Special and .357 S&Ws have a thumb safety.
Even my single action .44 Ruger has safety indents *between* the
chambered cartridges.

--
Skipper

Your DA revolvers have a mechanical switch that moves, thereby preventing
them from firing?

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 02:43:53 GMT, Dan Krueger
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 21:20:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


Dan Krueger wrote:

I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on the
Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you need
them,
lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the semi-auto mechanism
is
inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a
chamber empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds
more than three times the number of rounds.


How is that 17 round magazine legal? Pre-ban?

Nope. Perfectly legal in Maryland.


I'm not sure how you can say the semi-auto is "inherently" more
accurate
than a revolver. A barrel is a barrel. The same bullets pass through
them.

How they get to the barrel matters.


True. However, I much prefer revolvers because they are simpler,
easier to reload (quicker actually) and easier to handle.

Their major disadvantage is number of rounds, but accuracy more than
makes up for it.

I own more than a few guns and I use them for sport. I do keep one or
two around for self defense but that's another thread.

I have revolvers and semi-auto's. How do you figure that the revolvers
are more accurate? Trigger pull is similar as are the lengths of the
barrels. What am I missing?

Call it an old man's preference. Bill pretty much explained it,
revolvers have a fixed barrel where the old semi-autos didn't. Back
in the day, I couldn't hit the side of a barn with the venerable .45
Navy 1911. In fact, I had a hard time qualifying with it. With a
revolver, I had no problem. I know other guys who had the same
problem.

I've found that most folks who don't shoot on a regular basis can
focus better on the end of an open barrel than along a rail like a
semi-auto has. Another issue in accuracy is the tendency for people
with high capacity mags tend to spray rather than aim - a revolver
forces you to aim - you just can't spray bullets all over the place.

As to reload, 8 out of 10 times, I can reload my .357 mag and .44 mag
faster than the top state cop who just happens to belong to my rod and
gun club. I won't even begin to tell you that I can shoot more
rounds than he can, but under pressure, I'm more accurate.

Later,

Tom

I think some of these people have never seen or used a speedloader. They
work just fine. But, the real issue is this: In the vast majority of gun
confrontations involving citizens, only 2-3 rounds are fired. If anyone
needs documentation for this, all they need to do is read the reports in the
monthly NRA magazine. High capacity magazines are fun to use, but their
tactical advantage is really only for cops.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan Krueger wrote:
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 21:20:51 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:


Dan Krueger wrote:

I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on
the Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you
need them, lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the
semi-auto mechanism is inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a
chamber empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds
more than three times the number of rounds.

How is that 17 round magazine legal? Pre-ban?
Nope. Perfectly legal in Maryland.


I'm not sure how you can say the semi-auto is "inherently" more
accurate than a revolver. A barrel is a barrel. The same bullets
pass through them.
How they get to the barrel matters.

True. However, I much prefer revolvers because they are simpler,
easier to reload (quicker actually) and easier to handle.

Their major disadvantage is number of rounds, but accuracy more than
makes up for it.

I own more than a few guns and I use them for sport. I do keep one or
two around for self defense but that's another thread.

I have revolvers and semi-auto's. How do you figure that the revolvers
are more accurate? Trigger pull is similar as are the lengths of the
barrels. What am I missing?

Dan


In a revolver, there is a bit of space between the business end of the
cylinder and the back end of the barrel, where the bullet enters after the
hammer strikes the round. The lineup between the bullet and the barrel
isn't always perfect. Off even a bit matters, especially in match
contents. In a semi auto, the round is fully in the barrel before it is
set off.

That's mostly a problem with either cheap guns, or old guns that have
digested thousands of rounds. It's called "timing". Once fixed, it stays
fixed for quite a long time.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

I'd take a Glock 34 any day over that wheelgun. Fully legal mag on the
Glock holds 17 rounds, standard barrel is 5" long, and if you need
them, lasergrips are available. Oh, and my guess is the semi-auto
mechanism is inherently more accurate than the wheelgun's.

You have a single or double action wheelgun? If double, you keep a
chamber empty for safety's sake? If so, that means the G34 mag holds
more than three times the number of rounds.

How is that 17 round magazine legal? Pre-ban?

Nope. Perfectly legal in Maryland.


I always thought that was a federal law. Here's what I found on it:

"When Browning had to come up with a ten round magazine to satisfy the
demands of Clinton's 1994 law, they put a little spring on the bottom. I
don't mean to be uncomplimentary when I say it resembles a rat-trap."

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...112128013/pg_2

Dan


Thanks for the article. Massad Ayoob is definitely "the man," or at least
one of them. The "law" limiting the capacity of magazines expired. States
now regulate the max capacity. In Maryland, a 17-rounder is ok. I think
the limit here is a 20-rounder. There are 33-round mags available (in
Virginia, for example), but not in this state.

I've shot a couple of Browning HP's. They are fine pistols. But if I were
going to buy a handgun for defense, the first one on my list would be a
Glock in 9 mm, full frame. They are sturdy, elegantly simple, reliable and
accurate. They're not a race gun, but they're ideal for their purpose.

The rule is that you're better off carrying a gun you're comfortable with,
as opposed to no gun. But still, you'd be better off with a .40 cal or .45
cal Glock. 9mm is a pretty anemic round for defense, which is why so many
police departments have abandoned it.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 01:39:30 +0000, Bill McKee wrote:


And loaded with wad cutters with the hollow bottom. With the bullet
upside down. Otherwise you kill some poor neighbor 3 houses away after
the bullet has gone through the intruder and a few walls.

Anyone familiar with frangible bullets? I'm guessing that's what the Air
Marshals were using.

http://www.frangiblebullets.com/

They use something like that, although not necessarily from that
manufacturer, and they don't concern themselves with the lead-free aspect.
Glaser makes one called the Safety Slug, designed to disintegrate completely
in the body and not pass through. And, Remington's versions are more
traditional hollow points which tend not to pass through, either. It's a
matter of matching exactly the right ammo with the gun in question, in order
to achieve the right velocity to produce good expansion.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Skipper wrote:
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

Skipper wrote:

So, which is the better *defensive* handgun, a S&W .357 mag fitted with
laser grips or a Glock auto?

.357 mag revolver or a .44 mag revolver.

Simple, effective and never break down.

"I know what you're thinkin', punk. You're thinkin', did he fire six
shots or only five? And to tell you the truth, I forgot myself in all
this excitement. But bein' this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful
handgun in the world, and it'll blow your head clean off, you could ask
yourself a question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"

- Harry Callahan

--
Skipper


Great line, great delivery, but inaccurate. The .454 Casull, for one. was
and is "more powerful."

Not sure, but I don't think that load existed at the time the movie was
made.

Skipper wrote:

Methinks your handgun experience is like your boating experience,
Snipper. You haven't any.

Whatever.

BTW, J. Curtis Earl was an old family friend we knew for over 4 decades.
It was through him that I initially got involved in shooting sports. Do
you know who he was or about his guns?

Here is a streaming video of what's left of his collection:

http://www.idahohistory.net/earl.html

The video really doesn't do the collection justice. He'd been harassed
by liberals in the ATF for decades and they'd confiscated his collection
several times. His collection was *much* larger before these
confiscation's, and included the Midas Thompson, arms from Hitler's
bunker, and the original machine guns from Folsom Prison.

Curtis died a couple years ago...I miss that great guy! Here's some more
info on him and his collection: http://tinyurl.com/aue2l Can you
imagine...250 Thompsons in one collection!

--
Skipper