Harry Krause wrote:
Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
A passenger on Flight 924 gives his account of the shooting and says
Rigoberto Alpizar never claimed to have a bomb
By SIOBHAN MORRISSEY/MIAMI
(Time Magazine)
Posted Thursday, Dec. 08, 2005
At least one passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 924 maintains
the federal air marshals were a little too quick on the draw when they
shot and killed Rigoberto Alpizar as he frantically attempted to run
off the airplane shortly before take-off.

"I don't think they needed to use deadly force with the guy," says John
McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker from Sebastian, Fla. "He
was getting off the plane." McAlhany also maintains that Alpizar never
mentioned having a bomb.

"I never heard the word 'bomb' on the plane," McAlhany told TIME in a
telephone interview. "I never heard the word bomb until the FBI asked
me did you hear the word bomb. That is ridiculous." Even the
authorities didn't come out and say bomb, McAlhany says. "They asked,
'Did you hear anything about the b-word?'" he says. "That's what they
called it."

When the incident began McAlhany was in seat 24C, in the middle of the
plane. "[Alpizar] was in the back," McAlhany says, "a few seats from
the back bathroom. He sat down." Then, McAlhany says, "I heard an
argument with his wife. He was saying 'I have to get off the plane.'
She said, 'Calm down.'"

Alpizar took off running down the aisle, with his wife close behind
him. "She was running behind him saying, 'He's sick. He's sick. He's
ill. He's got a disorder," McAlhany recalls. "I don't know if she said
bipolar disorder [as one witness has alleged]. She was trying to
explain to the marshals that he was ill. He just wanted to get off the
plane."


McAlhany described Alpizar as carrying a big backpack and wearing a
fanny pack in front. He says it would have been impossible for Alpizar
to lie flat on the floor of the plane, as marshals ordered him to do,
with the fanny pack on. "You can't get on the ground with a fanny
pack," he says. "You have to move it to the side."

By the time Alpizar made it to the front of the airplane, the crew had
ordered the rest of the passengers to get down between the seats. "I
didn't see him get shot," he says. "They kept telling me to get down. I
heard about five shots."

McAlhany says he tried to see what was happening just in case he needed
to take evasive action. "I wanted to make sure if anything was coming
toward me and they were killing passengers I would have a chance to
break somebody's neck," he says. "I was looking through the seats
because I wanted to see what was coming.

"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and
put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the
seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my
hand. Then I realized it was an official."

In the ensuing events, many of the passengers began crying in fear, he
recalls. "They were pointing the guns directly at us instead of
pointing them to the ground," he says "One little girl was crying.
There was a lady crying all the way to the hotel."

McAlhany said he saw Alpizar before the flight and is absolutely
stunned by what unfolded on the airplane. He says he saw Alpizar eating
a sandwich in the boarding area before getting on the plane. He looked
normal at that time, McAlhany says. He thinks the whole thing was a
mistake: "I don't believe he should be dead right now."
--
Cheney, Dick=The greater of two evils.


It was a sad and tragic event. However, with all of the millions of air
miles that sky marshalls have flown and this the first shooting it
would be really hard to make a case that the sky marshalls are just
trigger happy idiots who like to hear their guns go "bang."
Something caused them to kill this guy, and it probably wasn't caprice
or boredom.

If the witness didn't hear the guy claim he had a bomb, then the
witness (had he been a sky marshall instead of witness) probably
wouldn't have shot him. Yes, it could have been a mistake- but it
probably wasn't a deliberate assassination.

The only remotely positive aspect of this tragedy is that if there are
any terrorist *******s wondering if there are really sky marshalls on
at least some US flights, it certainly demonstrates that there are.

You couldn't begin to compare this situation with say, Kent State, for
example.

I think I might have seen a sky marshall as we went through security
for one of the four legs of our recent flight to Argentia. He walked up
to the security screening area, called an inspector aside, showed him a
badge, said "law enforcement" and then some other word that didn't seem
to make sense (maybe the password of the day?). He was allowed in
without having to pass through the metal detector.

DARN DARN DARN. I was hoping they were crazed government workers shooting
innocent travelers under direct orders from Bush.

I guess I am off to find another news article to cut and paste.


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 8 Dec 2005 18:31:54 -0800, wrote:

You couldn't begin to compare this situation with say, Kent State, for
example.

I'm betting that by tomorrow, it will be a racial incident and that
the Reverend Jackson will be right in the middle of it.

Interesting though that it's the second Brazilian shot dead in the
past six months or so for refusing to respond to police commands.

Anyway, there were more witness reports of the guy talking about bomb
that the two who said they never heard it, so it probably was a good
shoot. Those guys have a tough job - I hope the Marshall can handle
it without falling apart.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 22:24:01 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 8 Dec 2005 18:31:54 -0800, wrote:

You couldn't begin to compare this situation with say, Kent State, for
example.
I'm betting that by tomorrow, it will be a racial incident and that
the Reverend Jackson will be right in the middle of it.

Interesting though that it's the second Brazilian shot dead in the
past six months or so for refusing to respond to police commands.

Anyway, there were more witness reports of the guy talking about bomb
that the two who said they never heard it, so it probably was a good
shoot. Those guys have a tough job - I hope the Marshall can handle
it without falling apart.
The fellow who was shot was a US citizen, and I believe he was a native
of Costa Rica.

Hmmm - report I saw said Brazil. Hey, critical incidents create a lot
of fog and false impressions - the guys main mistake was not stopping
when he was told to.


Yeah, well, if he were suffering from a serious mental illness, he might
not have heard the commands or he might have thought they were coming from
spiders, or, well, who knows, eh?

But the bottom line is that he did not stop. How were the marshal's to know
he was bipolar? Bang-bang.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 8 Dec 2005 18:31:54 -0800, wrote:

You couldn't begin to compare this situation with say, Kent State, for
example.

I'm betting that by tomorrow, it will be a racial incident and that
the Reverend Jackson will be right in the middle of it.

Interesting though that it's the second Brazilian shot dead in the
past six months or so for refusing to respond to police commands.

Anyway, there were more witness reports of the guy talking about bomb
that the two who said they never heard it, so it probably was a good
shoot. Those guys have a tough job - I hope the Marshall can handle
it without falling apart.



The fellow who was shot was a US citizen, and I believe he was a native of
Costa Rica.

Apparently, he's been here since 1986. More than enough time to understand
shouted requests to show his hands, put down the bag, etc.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 8 Dec 2005 18:31:54 -0800, wrote:

You couldn't begin to compare this situation with say, Kent State, for
example.
I'm betting that by tomorrow, it will be a racial incident and that
the Reverend Jackson will be right in the middle of it.

Interesting though that it's the second Brazilian shot dead in the
past six months or so for refusing to respond to police commands.

Anyway, there were more witness reports of the guy talking about bomb
that the two who said they never heard it, so it probably was a good
shoot. Those guys have a tough job - I hope the Marshall can handle
it without falling apart.


The fellow who was shot was a US citizen, and I believe he was a native
of Costa Rica.

Apparently, he's been here since 1986. More than enough time to
understand shouted requests to show his hands, put down the bag, etc.

Sure, unless you suffer from a serious mental illness.

As I stated, hopefully there will be a coroner's inquest.

If you were alone in the covered ramp with him and he refused to follow your
instructions, what would YOU have done, Harry? The guy's got a backpack on
his chest, hands inside, and he's refusing to show his hands, etc. Please
describe YOUR strategy.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 8 Dec 2005 18:31:54 -0800, wrote:

You couldn't begin to compare this situation with say, Kent State, for
example.
I'm betting that by tomorrow, it will be a racial incident and that
the Reverend Jackson will be right in the middle of it.

Interesting though that it's the second Brazilian shot dead in the
past six months or so for refusing to respond to police commands.

Anyway, there were more witness reports of the guy talking about bomb
that the two who said they never heard it, so it probably was a good
shoot. Those guys have a tough job - I hope the Marshall can handle
it without falling apart.


The fellow who was shot was a US citizen, and I believe he was a native
of Costa Rica.

Apparently, he's been here since 1986. More than enough time to
understand shouted requests to show his hands, put down the bag, etc.

Sure, unless you suffer from a serious mental illness.

As I stated, hopefully there will be a coroner's inquest.


So let me get this straight Harry. If one suffers from a mental illness,
claims to have a bomb, runs towards a building full of people, is ordered to
stop but does not...............that person should not be shot.

And how many sane and stable people would claim to have a bomb, run towards
a building full of people and then keep running when ordered to stop by
police?

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 06:32:35 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 22:24:01 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 8 Dec 2005 18:31:54 -0800, wrote:

You couldn't begin to compare this situation with say, Kent State,
for
example.
I'm betting that by tomorrow, it will be a racial incident and that
the Reverend Jackson will be right in the middle of it.

Interesting though that it's the second Brazilian shot dead in the
past six months or so for refusing to respond to police commands.

Anyway, there were more witness reports of the guy talking about bomb
that the two who said they never heard it, so it probably was a good
shoot. Those guys have a tough job - I hope the Marshall can handle
it without falling apart.
The fellow who was shot was a US citizen, and I believe he was a
native of Costa Rica.
Hmmm - report I saw said Brazil. Hey, critical incidents create a lot
of fog and false impressions - the guys main mistake was not stopping
when he was told to.

Yeah, well, if he were suffering from a serious mental illness, he might
not have heard the commands or he might have thought they were coming
from spiders, or, well, who knows, eh?

Understood, but you can't make that kind of distinction in the middle
of a crisis situation. I'd bet it was horrible confused, the guy was
running, his wife was screaming - panic. The Marshal did the right
thing and can't be faulted for it as much as some would like to make
him the villain in this.


You know, I'm not saying they should be faulted. I'm simply saying there
should be a coroner's inquest. I also think marshals should be equipped
with tasers in addition to pistolas.

I wonder if a taser would be a good idea for use near an electrical
detonation device.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 14:10:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 8 Dec 2005 18:31:54 -0800, wrote:

You couldn't begin to compare this situation with say, Kent State,
for
example.
I'm betting that by tomorrow, it will be a racial incident and that
the Reverend Jackson will be right in the middle of it.

Interesting though that it's the second Brazilian shot dead in the
past six months or so for refusing to respond to police commands.

Anyway, there were more witness reports of the guy talking about bomb
that the two who said they never heard it, so it probably was a good
shoot. Those guys have a tough job - I hope the Marshall can handle
it without falling apart.


The fellow who was shot was a US citizen, and I believe he was a
native
of Costa Rica.

Apparently, he's been here since 1986. More than enough time to
understand shouted requests to show his hands, put down the bag, etc.

Sure, unless you suffer from a serious mental illness.

As I stated, hopefully there will be a coroner's inquest.

If you were alone in the covered ramp with him and he refused to follow
your
instructions, what would YOU have done, Harry? The guy's got a backpack on
his chest, hands inside, and he's refusing to show his hands, etc. Please
describe YOUR strategy.

Harry is just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. He
knows the Marshal was right in what he did, but his local street cred
would suffer if he didn't take an opposing POV. :)

Doesn't make Harry a bad guy.

I know. But still....I really want to hear Harry's alternative plan of
action.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

I would have tasered the guy.

No you wouldn't. You really don't know what a taser might do to an electric
detonator.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 14:10:16 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 8 Dec 2005 18:31:54 -0800, wrote:

You couldn't begin to compare this situation with say, Kent State,
for
example.
I'm betting that by tomorrow, it will be a racial incident and that
the Reverend Jackson will be right in the middle of it.

Interesting though that it's the second Brazilian shot dead in the
past six months or so for refusing to respond to police commands.

Anyway, there were more witness reports of the guy talking about
bomb
that the two who said they never heard it, so it probably was a
good
shoot. Those guys have a tough job - I hope the Marshall can
handle
it without falling apart.

The fellow who was shot was a US citizen, and I believe he was a
native
of Costa Rica.
Apparently, he's been here since 1986. More than enough time to
understand shouted requests to show his hands, put down the bag, etc.
Sure, unless you suffer from a serious mental illness.

As I stated, hopefully there will be a coroner's inquest.
If you were alone in the covered ramp with him and he refused to follow
your
instructions, what would YOU have done, Harry? The guy's got a backpack
on
his chest, hands inside, and he's refusing to show his hands, etc.
Please
describe YOUR strategy.
Harry is just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. He
knows the Marshal was right in what he did, but his local street cred
would suffer if he didn't take an opposing POV. :)

Doesn't make Harry a bad guy.

I know. But still....I really want to hear Harry's alternative plan of
action.
I would have tasered the guy.

No. The best shot for a taser is the chest. It's the biggest target, shirts
are often thinner than pants, and there's be no belt buckles etc. in the
way. The guy was supposedly wearing a backpack on his chest. No target. You
could aim for the face, but you'd have a very good chance of missing.

If you suggested a taser during your air marshal training, and wouldn't let
go of the idea, you'd probably be sent back to your previous job.