Here are some interesting observations from Dave Mann of Detroit, Michigan
Truck and Automotive Engineers and Lubrication Specialists. If you read the
article, I especially liked the part where they went to a trade show and had
one of the Snake Oil'ers test his new improved additive. It showed
excellent results using their test. The additive was repackaged Head and
Shoulders shampoo.

http://www.performanceoiltechnology....tadditives.htm

"Tucked into a musty corner of the massive petroleum industry, sheltered by
the indifference of oil marketers, auto makers, retailers and the American
Petroleum Institute, is the $150 million aftermarket lube additive market –
a virtual plague of engine oil additives, supplemental additives, oil
treatments and engine treatments."

Question One: What real benefits does this “mouse milk” (to use the oil
industry’s own snickering phrase) provide?

The Answer: None, nada zip, zero.

Question Two: Do ALAs cause any harm?

The Answer: To engines, some probably do. To consumers and their wallets,
yes. And to the environment, a resounding yes.

In its owner’s manual, Ford Motor Co. recommends against the use of
aftermarket lubricant additives (ALAs) for engines, transmissions,
transaxles, etc. For example, the engine oil section in the 2003 Ranger
pickup’s manual states twice, for emphasis, on the same page, “Do not use
supplemental engine oil additives, cleaners or other engine treatments. They
are unnecessary and could lead to engine damage that is not covered by Ford
warranty.”

q “Don’t add anything to you oil.” – 1998 Buick Regal owner’s manual

q “Do not add any material (other than leak detection dyes) to engine
oil. Engine oil is an engineered product and its performance may be impaired
by supplemental additives.” – 2003 DaimlerChrysler owner’s manual

q “Using supplemental additives is generally unnecessary and can even
be harmful (emphasis added). One should never use an additive to fix a
mechanical problem.” – Detroit Diesel bulletin several years ago

"What part of NO do you not understand".

q “ExxonMobil does not recommend (additive supplements and/or engine
treatments).” – Mobil 1 website




http://www.performanceoiltechnology....tadditives.htm
"Smithers" Yes, Smithers is not my real name. wrote in message
...
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/legal/

This is a great review of various "Snake Oils" and other Miracles.


"Billgran" wrote in message
. ..

"Dan Krueger" wrote in message
k.net...
wrote:


Years ago their was a Miracle Additive, that was on Late Night
Infomercial,
that would eliminate 99% of the heat and friction. They would run the
car
with this additive for a few hundred miles, drain the engine, remove
the oil
filter and then run it all over town for hundreds of miles. The engine
was
" perfect" and it wouldn't even get hot.

This product had endorsements from God and the world. For some reason
I
don't see this product being advertised anymore. I wonder what
happened.
; ) I would have thought this would have taken over the lubrication
industry.

PS - Does anyone remember the name of the product. I would like to do
a
Google.




I believe you are referring to Prolong, a snake oil additive that was
popular some years back before the Federal Trade Commission stepped in
and demanded proof, just like they did to the Splitfire sparkplugs.

Bill Grannis
service manager

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:10:13 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

You do have your supporters, though... Jaxashby ranted on for months
in support of your position...

I hope to hell you used a crucifix, hung a string of garlic around
your monitor and had a mirror handy along with a small bottle of Holy
Water when you wrote that.

And per Buffy, a good sharp stick.

Well, I drive an old Nissan truck with Z28 engine with 295428 miles and
will continue to drive it till the odometer says 333,333. I rarely
change the oil closer than 8000 miles ebtween changes. I also have
NEVER washed my truck and it looks pretty good still. I have never
used oil additives either. Currently, she burns a quart every 1150
miles.

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:10:13 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:


When changing oil, you don't have a dry start... unless you have
figured out a way to suck the oil from between the bearing/journal
clearances.

You are correct, however,"dry start" is a term used in the engine
industry for when an engine is turning over or running with "less than
spec" oil pressure.

I've pulled apart engines that have sat for *years* and
there was still a film of oil coating the journals and bearings. Recip
aircraft engines are run up to 30 seconds with NO oil pressure showing
on the gage....with no damage expected... per the manufacturers
manual.

"Expected" damage is subjective.

Oil will lubricate with NO pressure... and does, every time
you start your engine.

Lubricate, yes. Gene, do you know the dynamics of a pressurized galley
and Babbitt bearing system?

If the quality of your oil does not provide for boundary lubrication
as well as hydrodynamic... you've got problems, anyway.

Um...agreed.

Pre-oiling is preferred, but running dirty oil is just recycling what
amounts to abrasives through the engine.

Um...agreed again.

Our lab did extensive testing on the subject, and found that (of
course) engine with more dry run time had *significantly* more
wear/damage.

Citation?

I don't have any of the documentation from that study, but I read the
results, and saw/measured the damage myself.

How many percent do you have to turn on that turbine engine before you
have any oil pressure?

Less than 1%.

But then turbines run forever between oil
changes, don't they!

No.

Wonder why?

No. I know why.

You do have your supporters, though... Jaxashby ranted on for months
in support of your position...

Its not a position of support...its fact.

Take care Gene.

__

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."

http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/

Dan Krueger wrote:
wrote:

Smithers wrote:

To All:

Years ago their was a Miracle Additive, that was on Late Night Infomercial,
that would eliminate 99% of the heat and friction. They would run the car
with this additive for a few hundred miles, drain the engine, remove the oil
filter and then run it all over town for hundreds of miles. The engine was
" perfect" and it wouldn't even get hot. They then had Mario Andretti do
the same thing over a race course, of course, he won the race. They then
would remove the value covers, throw dirt into the engine, spray it with
water, cut the radiator lines, red line the engine and the engine was
"perfect".

This product had endorsements from God and the world. For some reason I
don't see this product being advertised anymore. I wonder what happened.
; ) I would have thought this would have taken over the lubrication
industry.

PS - Does anyone remember the name of the product. I would like to do a
Google.


I don't remember the name, but I did see this same engine, every week,
sitting and idling at a flea market by where I lived, it didn't have an
oil pan on it, and was supposed to show the incredible results of the
product. The thing idled so slow it barely ran, and when you wasn't
looking, the guy would squirt oil on the rod bearings. Come to find
out, the guy replaced the bearings with leather that soaked oil, and
provided padding.


What were you selling at the flea market, Kevin?

I'm not Kevin, you dip****.

Atl_Man,
Your name might not be Kevin, but since you have used it in your email
address for a number of years, why not just accept that some people might
call you Kevin.

Since according to you, your name is neither Atl_Man, Basskisser, JimDandy
or Kevin, what difference does it matter?


wrote in message
oups.com...

Dan Krueger wrote:
wrote:

Smithers wrote:

To All:

Years ago their was a Miracle Additive, that was on Late Night
Infomercial,
that would eliminate 99% of the heat and friction. They would run the
car
with this additive for a few hundred miles, drain the engine, remove
the oil
filter and then run it all over town for hundreds of miles. The engine
was
" perfect" and it wouldn't even get hot. They then had Mario Andretti
do
the same thing over a race course, of course, he won the race. They
then
would remove the value covers, throw dirt into the engine, spray it
with
water, cut the radiator lines, red line the engine and the engine was
"perfect".

This product had endorsements from God and the world. For some reason
I
don't see this product being advertised anymore. I wonder what
happened.
; ) I would have thought this would have taken over the lubrication
industry.

PS - Does anyone remember the name of the product. I would like to do
a
Google.


I don't remember the name, but I did see this same engine, every week,
sitting and idling at a flea market by where I lived, it didn't have an
oil pan on it, and was supposed to show the incredible results of the
product. The thing idled so slow it barely ran, and when you wasn't
looking, the guy would squirt oil on the rod bearings. Come to find
out, the guy replaced the bearings with leather that soaked oil, and
provided padding.


What were you selling at the flea market, Kevin?

I'm not Kevin, you dip****.

wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

wrote:


Smithers wrote:


To All:

Years ago their was a Miracle Additive, that was on Late Night Infomercial,
that would eliminate 99% of the heat and friction. They would run the car
with this additive for a few hundred miles, drain the engine, remove the oil
filter and then run it all over town for hundreds of miles. The engine was
" perfect" and it wouldn't even get hot. They then had Mario Andretti do
the same thing over a race course, of course, he won the race. They then
would remove the value covers, throw dirt into the engine, spray it with
water, cut the radiator lines, red line the engine and the engine was
"perfect".

This product had endorsements from God and the world. For some reason I
don't see this product being advertised anymore. I wonder what happened.
; ) I would have thought this would have taken over the lubrication
industry.

PS - Does anyone remember the name of the product. I would like to do a
Google.


I don't remember the name, but I did see this same engine, every week,
sitting and idling at a flea market by where I lived, it didn't have an
oil pan on it, and was supposed to show the incredible results of the
product. The thing idled so slow it barely ran, and when you wasn't
looking, the guy would squirt oil on the rod bearings. Come to find
out, the guy replaced the bearings with leather that soaked oil, and
provided padding.


What were you selling at the flea market, Kevin?


I'm not Kevin, you dip****.

That's the name on the email you sent to me. Now how does that make me
a "dip****"? Because YOU say so? Get back to work.

Dan (real name and not afraid to use it)

PS - Does anyone remember the name of the product. I would like to do a
Google.

slick50
it's still around.
www.slick50.com

pure snake oil

--- AntiSpam/harvest ---
Remove X's to send email to me.

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 00:56:47 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:27:09 -0500, Netsock wrote:

Certainly. Wanna compare expertise?

No thanks...you have already clearly demonstrated your knowledge on
the subject.

But anyway, you should know in the absence of pressure, the journals
would ride more on the bearings, thus causing more wear.

If you own the lab, you certainly should own the results. Shouldn't
you?

I didn't own the lab.

Less than 1%.


That is total BS even for you! In order for you to even SEE any oil
pressure at 1%, oil pressure would have to lead RPM.... and on this
planet (Earth) that isn't going to happen.

As soon as the turbine starts spinning, the oil pump starts pumping.
At that point, there is measurable oil pressure. BTW, 1% is equal to
approximately 200 rpm.

But then turbines run forever between oil
changes, don't they!

No.

You obviously haven't been paying attention. Think SOAP.

And you obviously don't know what you are talking about...

The manufacture/builder cites a change interval for the oil, so
again...no...turbines do not "run forever between oil
changes"...whatever that exactly means anyway.

Wonder why?

No. I know why.

You deny and then comprehend same?

With your first statement being incorrect, the point is moot, however,
if you need explanation, I will be happy to do so...

"No" I don't "wonder why", because I already know why.

Got it now?

Its not a position of support...its fact.

Gosh, that's what Jax said!

Then he's a smart man. Like I said Gene, I have read the results, and
have seen the wear with my own eyes.

Frankly, for as smart as you put yourself off here, I'm surprised at
your lack of grasp on the issue. But hey...to each their own.

Take care Gene.
__

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."

http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:36:10 GMT, Gene Kearns
wrote:


By your own admission, you only take this thing out once or twice a
year..

You're beginning to sound like Krause...I said I only took it out a
few times that summer.

so oil properties and changes are probably pretty fuzzy for
you, so I'll help you out.

I'm waiting...

First of all 1% would blast past you faster than you could ever see...

Whatever that means.

you couldn't possibly see oil pressure at 1% unless you somehow
limited RPM such as on a compressor wash... so, we must discount that
part of your post.... as not reasonable or verifiable...

Speaking for the group Gene? *You* can discount it all you want, but
the facts remain...there *is* "measurable" oil pressure at 1%.

As usual, it seems I must help further your education.....

LOL! You have yet to "educate" me on anything you have ever posted
here.

http://193.113.209.166/aeroshell/aeroshellteos.pdf

And that proved nothing about your claims, in fact, its supports my
position more than yours...nice try tho...

Your debating tactics are looking more and more like Krause's
fabrications. Inserting words that weren't there, bait-n-switching the
issue, cut-n-pasting from the internet...all in a feeble, but failed
attempt, to back pedal.

1. Pressurized galley babbitt bearing systems (as found in auto/boat
engines) will wear excessively with no oil pressure.

2. Turbines do not "run forever between oil changes".

3. There is indeed measurable oil pressure in my turbine at 1%.

4. You have never educated me about anything. Anything you have ever
said here, I have already known.

The above are facts Gene. I'm sorry if the truth hurts...maybe you
should stick to taking pictures of the back-side of teenage girls in
the woods, attaching your inappropriate comments to them, then posting
them on the internet.

Take care Gene, and happy holidays.
__

"It's just about going fast...that's all..."

http://home.columbus.rr.com/ckg/