"DSK" wrote in message
...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150663,00.html


Interesting article, thanks for the link... definitely gets
the point across about the health issues... but was this
covered on their TV news? Or does this further prove my
point that the best info is to be had by *reading*?


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote
Funny you should mention this Doug. The other day, I was commenting on
an image on a photography group I have frequented for a long time and
used some imagery from mythology, in particular Campbell's "Thousand
Faces" to make my point. Nobody knew the reference or ever understood
it for that matter.

I have noticed more and more that the broad based reading you would
think "artists" would be doing isn't being done and that if you make a
literary reference, it's usually met with stone silence - unless the
reader is around my age (60 +/-).


Very few people read nonfiction for pleasure, and the fiction audience
gets smaller & smaller every year in this country.

I am shocked at the number of people I meet in the university environment
who read as little as possible, and that only within a very narrow range
of interest (within their field of course). I met a far higher percentage
of avid readers in the military.

I have often thought that one reason that we have the political
problems we have is that not enough people are well read enough or
spend their time reading that which is understandable to them, rather
than stretching their imaginations and intellects to at least try and
attain another level of enlightenment.


Sure. And IMHO the internet makes it worse... this newsgroup is an
example... instead of sampling a wide range of material and digging
further for interesting details, people tend to form little clusters of
self-reinforcing interest groups.

Doug Kanter wrote:
I wonder if what you're talking about has been caused, in part, by the
internet, and the ease of plagiarising such things as written material
for college assignments.

Two years ago, a friend of mine taught a college course in research
methods at SUNY Binghamton. The school apparently has a system in place
for spotting plagiarized writing by the students, who must submit their
work as computer documents. My friend found that 5 out of 20 of the
seniors in the course had swiped some or all of their writing off the
web. And, their bibliographies listed books which did not exist in the
school's library. Sort of interesting, considering it was a course in
research methods.

To make matters worse, a few of the students' work was unintelligible -
the kids could not write to save their lives. How they got past 15-20
professors in years 1 through 3 was a complete mystery.

Anyway, some of these people never cracked a book.

Partly because I was an older student (returning vet) and partly because I
pushed pretty hard, in college I spent a lot of time in grad courses &
hanging out with grad students. For a couple semesters I found myself as
an aide and responsible for helping to grade undergrad papers... at least
half of those "essay questions" were answered with incomplete sentences,
gobbledygook sprinkled with keywords plucked from the textbook. It was
appalling and I was told many times to not grade so harshly! After a
while, I felt that the guys who wrote long-winded evasive paragraphs about
very very little were at least deserving a C for being able to write
coherently.

When I say that the average reading level in the US is at the 5th grade,
I'm including college... unfortunately.

Regards
Doug King


What's worse is that these people have the blessings of the commander in
chief, who has made it seem "elite" to be well versed in our native
language.

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:28:26 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:04:35 -0500, JohnH wrote:

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:28:45 -0500, DSK wrote:

And it has nothing to do with political bias.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4501646.stm


JohnH wrote:
You may be right, but I think you lean left:

You "think" anybody who doesn't drool themselves to sleep at
night over a picture of President Bush holding hands with
Jesus is leaning to the left.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150663,00.html


Interesting article, thanks for the link... definitely gets
the point across about the health issues... but was this
covered on their TV news? Or does this further prove my
point that the best info is to be had by *reading*?

DSK

I've never denied that the 'best' info comes from reading. As Fox News doesn't publish a newspaper,
I would guess it was presented as part of their news. There have been several stories on obesity in
the TV news recently.

Hmmm - technically, that's not true. FOX is part of a newspaper
empire.

If Fox News publishes a paper, then the article may have been published in the paper. I got it he

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150663,00.html

I didn't see the article in a newspaper, but perhaps the Washington Post and the NY Times are not
Gannet newspapers.
--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:11:15 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..

As Fox News doesn't publish a newspaper,

Almost any of the Gannett fish wrappers are a close substitute for Fox
broadcast news.


I wasn't simply trying to answer your question. If you don't get Fox News,
how can you be so
judgmental?
--
John H

Up until last Spring, I had the cable version of Fox News. I shut off cable
when it became apparent that I'd be spending every non-work moment outdoors.

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:08:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:28:45 -0500, DSK wrote:

And it has nothing to do with political bias.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4501646.stm


JohnH wrote:
You may be right, but I think you lean left:

You "think" anybody who doesn't drool themselves to sleep at
night over a picture of President Bush holding hands with
Jesus is leaning to the left.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150663,00.html


Interesting article, thanks for the link... definitely gets
the point across about the health issues... but was this
covered on their TV news? Or does this further prove my
point that the best info is to be had by *reading*?

Funny you should mention this Doug. The other day, I was commenting on
an image on a photography group I have frequented for a long time and
used some imagery from mythology, in particular Campbell's "Thousand
Faces" to make my point. Nobody knew the reference or ever understood
it for that matter.

I have noticed more and more that the broad based reading you would
think "artists" would be doing isn't being done and that if you make a
literary reference, it's usually met with stone silence - unless the
reader is around my age (60 +/-).

I have often thought that one reason that we have the political
problems we have is that not enough people are well read enough or
spend their time reading that which is understandable to them, rather
than stretching their imaginations and intellects to at least try and
attain another level of enlightenment.

Later,

Tom

I wonder if what you're talking about has been caused, in part, by the
internet, and the ease of plagiarising such things as written material for
college assignments.

Two years ago, a friend of mine taught a college course in research methods
at SUNY Binghamton. The school apparently has a system in place for spotting
plagiarized writing by the students, who must submit their work as computer
documents. My friend found that 5 out of 20 of the seniors in the course had
swiped some or all of their writing off the web. And, their bibliographies
listed books which did not exist in the school's library. Sort of
interesting, considering it was a course in research methods.

To make matters worse, a few of the students' work was unintelligible - the
kids could not write to save their lives. How they got past 15-20 professors
in years 1 through 3 was a complete mystery.

Anyway, some of these people never cracked a book.


What is causing the decrease in the work ethic of students?

Your last sentence is especially true of math books. I wonder why the county spends so much money on
them.
--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:08:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:28:45 -0500, DSK wrote:

And it has nothing to do with political bias.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4501646.stm


JohnH wrote:
You may be right, but I think you lean left:

You "think" anybody who doesn't drool themselves to sleep at
night over a picture of President Bush holding hands with
Jesus is leaning to the left.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150663,00.html


Interesting article, thanks for the link... definitely gets
the point across about the health issues... but was this
covered on their TV news? Or does this further prove my
point that the best info is to be had by *reading*?

Funny you should mention this Doug. The other day, I was commenting on
an image on a photography group I have frequented for a long time and
used some imagery from mythology, in particular Campbell's "Thousand
Faces" to make my point. Nobody knew the reference or ever understood
it for that matter.

I have noticed more and more that the broad based reading you would
think "artists" would be doing isn't being done and that if you make a
literary reference, it's usually met with stone silence - unless the
reader is around my age (60 +/-).

I have often thought that one reason that we have the political
problems we have is that not enough people are well read enough or
spend their time reading that which is understandable to them, rather
than stretching their imaginations and intellects to at least try and
attain another level of enlightenment.

Later,

Tom

I wonder if what you're talking about has been caused, in part, by the
internet, and the ease of plagiarising such things as written material for
college assignments.

Two years ago, a friend of mine taught a college course in research
methods
at SUNY Binghamton. The school apparently has a system in place for
spotting
plagiarized writing by the students, who must submit their work as
computer
documents. My friend found that 5 out of 20 of the seniors in the course
had
swiped some or all of their writing off the web. And, their bibliographies
listed books which did not exist in the school's library. Sort of
interesting, considering it was a course in research methods.

To make matters worse, a few of the students' work was unintelligible -
the
kids could not write to save their lives. How they got past 15-20
professors
in years 1 through 3 was a complete mystery.

Anyway, some of these people never cracked a book.

I can believe it. Locally, we have a pretty good technical college,
but all the good professors are leaving or retiring. The new ones
they are being replaced with are results of the 80's era educational
process and are marginal. When I sub for the math instructors, I'm
constantly amazed at how little information they are imparting to
their students - it's almost as if they are teaching by rote or, worse
yet, don't understand the material they are presenting.

Not to brag, but I had a recent week long term sub assignment and the
kids were begging the administration for a new math teacher - me. I
know the material inside out and can present it properly and actually
answer questions about the mysteries they face.

I don't know that all means, but it's got to be significant in some
way.

Your students are not alone in their desire. Last year, my son and some of
his AP math class pals decided that the teacher was awful, compared to those
they'd had in the past. These kids would stay after school for extra help,
and the teacher was unable to explain things any better than during the
class. So, they created a petition to bring to the principal. The principal
wasn't too keen on that method of changing things, but even so, a couple of
days later, it was as if somebody had stuck new batteries into that teacher.

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:31:44 -0500, "P Fritz" wrote:



I stopped receivin the newspaper over a year ago.......I got tired of the
constant socialist slant (and that was the "conservative" paper in town.)
The sports coverage sucked, unless it was the hometown teams, and it ended
up more ads than anything. I have found I can get the all the major
editorials on line, (realclearpolitics is a good one for that) as well as
better sports coverage...and the links typically will give you further in
depth info. I watch the TV news only for the "breaking" stories....and most
of the time it is comical seeing the "journalists" trying to cover a story
that they have no idea what they are talking about.



http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=613
--

Thanks for the link. I take the Sunday Post, because of the coupons! Every so often I'll allow the
delivery of the weekday papers, when they have a 'free three months' or whatever. The plastic bags
are the right size for picking up dog poop, and the carrier makes a little more for delivering the
paper, even though I'm not paying for it.

It's much easier to read the news online. The articles are the same, less trees are consumed, and
links are provided for further info.
--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:08:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:28:45 -0500, DSK wrote:

And it has nothing to do with political bias.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4501646.stm


JohnH wrote:
You may be right, but I think you lean left:

You "think" anybody who doesn't drool themselves to sleep at
night over a picture of President Bush holding hands with
Jesus is leaning to the left.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150663,00.html


Interesting article, thanks for the link... definitely gets
the point across about the health issues... but was this
covered on their TV news? Or does this further prove my
point that the best info is to be had by *reading*?

Funny you should mention this Doug. The other day, I was commenting on
an image on a photography group I have frequented for a long time and
used some imagery from mythology, in particular Campbell's "Thousand
Faces" to make my point. Nobody knew the reference or ever understood
it for that matter.

I have noticed more and more that the broad based reading you would
think "artists" would be doing isn't being done and that if you make a
literary reference, it's usually met with stone silence - unless the
reader is around my age (60 +/-).

I have often thought that one reason that we have the political
problems we have is that not enough people are well read enough or
spend their time reading that which is understandable to them, rather
than stretching their imaginations and intellects to at least try and
attain another level of enlightenment.

Later,

Tom

I wonder if what you're talking about has been caused, in part, by the
internet, and the ease of plagiarising such things as written material for
college assignments.

Two years ago, a friend of mine taught a college course in research
methods
at SUNY Binghamton. The school apparently has a system in place for
spotting
plagiarized writing by the students, who must submit their work as
computer
documents. My friend found that 5 out of 20 of the seniors in the course
had
swiped some or all of their writing off the web. And, their bibliographies
listed books which did not exist in the school's library. Sort of
interesting, considering it was a course in research methods.

To make matters worse, a few of the students' work was unintelligible -
the
kids could not write to save their lives. How they got past 15-20
professors
in years 1 through 3 was a complete mystery.

Anyway, some of these people never cracked a book.


What is causing the decrease in the work ethic of students?

Your last sentence is especially true of math books. I wonder why the
county spends so much money on
them.
--
John H

I think it's caused by parents who think they have to know the material in
order to help their kids. They give up too soon. They don't realize that
sometimes, just expressing an interest is enough to motivate kids.

Tom,
So why don't you teach a few classes full time?


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:08:05 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:28:45 -0500, DSK wrote:

And it has nothing to do with political bias.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4501646.stm


JohnH wrote:
You may be right, but I think you lean left:

You "think" anybody who doesn't drool themselves to sleep at
night over a picture of President Bush holding hands with
Jesus is leaning to the left.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150663,00.html


Interesting article, thanks for the link... definitely gets
the point across about the health issues... but was this
covered on their TV news? Or does this further prove my
point that the best info is to be had by *reading*?

Funny you should mention this Doug. The other day, I was commenting on
an image on a photography group I have frequented for a long time and
used some imagery from mythology, in particular Campbell's "Thousand
Faces" to make my point. Nobody knew the reference or ever understood
it for that matter.

I have noticed more and more that the broad based reading you would
think "artists" would be doing isn't being done and that if you make a
literary reference, it's usually met with stone silence - unless the
reader is around my age (60 +/-).

I have often thought that one reason that we have the political
problems we have is that not enough people are well read enough or
spend their time reading that which is understandable to them, rather
than stretching their imaginations and intellects to at least try and
attain another level of enlightenment.

Later,

Tom

I wonder if what you're talking about has been caused, in part, by the
internet, and the ease of plagiarising such things as written material for
college assignments.

Two years ago, a friend of mine taught a college course in research
methods
at SUNY Binghamton. The school apparently has a system in place for
spotting
plagiarized writing by the students, who must submit their work as
computer
documents. My friend found that 5 out of 20 of the seniors in the course
had
swiped some or all of their writing off the web. And, their bibliographies
listed books which did not exist in the school's library. Sort of
interesting, considering it was a course in research methods.

To make matters worse, a few of the students' work was unintelligible -
the
kids could not write to save their lives. How they got past 15-20
professors
in years 1 through 3 was a complete mystery.

Anyway, some of these people never cracked a book.

I can believe it. Locally, we have a pretty good technical college,
but all the good professors are leaving or retiring. The new ones
they are being replaced with are results of the 80's era educational
process and are marginal. When I sub for the math instructors, I'm
constantly amazed at how little information they are imparting to
their students - it's almost as if they are teaching by rote or, worse
yet, don't understand the material they are presenting.

Not to brag, but I had a recent week long term sub assignment and the
kids were begging the administration for a new math teacher - me. I
know the material inside out and can present it properly and actually
answer questions about the mysteries they face.

I don't know that all means, but it's got to be significant in some
way.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:31:44 -0500, "P Fritz"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:49:15 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:28:45 -0500, DSK wrote:

And it has nothing to do with political bias.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4501646.stm


JohnH wrote:
You may be right, but I think you lean left:

You "think" anybody who doesn't drool themselves to sleep at
night over a picture of President Bush holding hands with
Jesus is leaning to the left.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150663,00.html


Interesting article, thanks for the link... definitely gets
the point across about the health issues... but was this
covered on their TV news? Or does this further prove my
point that the best info is to be had by *reading*?

Funny you should mention this Doug. The other day, I was commenting on
an image on a photography group I have frequented for a long time and
used some imagery from mythology, in particular Campbell's "Thousand
Faces" to make my point. Nobody knew the reference or ever understood
it for that matter.

I have noticed more and more that the broad based reading you would
think "artists" would be doing isn't being done and that if you make a
literary reference, it's usually met with stone silence - unless the
reader is around my age (60 +/-).

I have often thought that one reason that we have the political
problems we have is that not enough people are well read enough or
spend their time reading that which is understandable to them, rather
than stretching their imaginations and intellects to at least try and
attain another level of enlightenment.

Later,

Tom

This study would indicate that only about 41% of the population read
the
newspaper, and only about
8% spend an hour or more reading the paper. Most get their news from
TV.

I stopped receivin the newspaper over a year ago.......I got tired of the
constant socialist slant (and that was the "conservative" paper in town.)
The sports coverage sucked, unless it was the hometown teams, and it
ended
up more ads than anything. I have found I can get the all the major
editorials on line, (realclearpolitics is a good one for that) as well
as
better sports coverage...and the links typically will give you further in
depth info. I watch the TV news only for the "breaking" stories....and
most
of the time it is comical seeing the "journalists" trying to cover a
story
that they have no idea what they are talking about.

Which is exactly what I was talking about tailoring your reading to
reflect your personal beliefs and not reading or taking a broad
approach to understanding issues. If you only look at one side, you
can never really truly understand issues.

I have a daily routine in which I read liberal/conservative blogs, I
read/scan the NYT, Wash Post, Wash Times and WS Journal and keep the
TV news local. In the evening, I pick, at random, one conservative
and one liberal blog to read in it's entirety including commentary,
then after doing whatever hobby has my interest for that day, I spend
at least an hour reading non-fiction and a half hour fiction before I
hit the rack.

Later,

Tom

The reason I like realclearpolitcs is that it links to a smorgasboard of
edtitorials and news articles across the country.
Don't go assuming on me. ;-)

I love reading rags like Smithsonian, Nat. Geo, and a few trade ones, I
just never had the time or desire for much fiction.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:31:44 -0500, "P Fritz"
wrote:



I stopped receivin the newspaper over a year ago.......I got tired of the
constant socialist slant (and that was the "conservative" paper in town.)
The sports coverage sucked, unless it was the hometown teams, and it
ended
up more ads than anything. I have found I can get the all the major
editorials on line, (realclearpolitics is a good one for that) as well
as
better sports coverage...and the links typically will give you further in
depth info. I watch the TV news only for the "breaking" stories....and
most
of the time it is comical seeing the "journalists" trying to cover a
story
that they have no idea what they are talking about.



http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=613
--

Thanks for the link. I take the Sunday Post, because of the coupons! Every
so often I'll allow the
delivery of the weekday papers, when they have a 'free three months' or
whatever. The plastic bags
are the right size for picking up dog poop, and the carrier makes a little
more for delivering the
paper, even though I'm not paying for it.

It's much easier to read the news online. The articles are the same, less
trees are consumed, and
links are provided for further info.

I stopped with the coupons when they discontinued the 2 - 3x offers. :-)

I like the realclearpolitcs site because you really get a cross section of
links.



--
John H

**** May your Christmas be Spectacular!****
*****...and your New Year even Better!*****