On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 17:21:54 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 07:58:13 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Stay tuned for the next installment of the The Reverands.

===========================

Better yet, why not put them in the KF and stop their fun?




I just took one of them out. I guess you're right. I suppose of all the
personalities one encounters on usenet, the ones I most dislike are the
"holier-than-thou's" who don't recognize when they are falling off the
wagon...again.

I should be more mellow today. One of my kids sent me a collection of
Neville Brothers CDs, and I've been listening to Aaron Neville telling it
like it is.


I've got a superaudio CD of Neville, done in 6 channel stereo. One of the
recordings is "Ave Maria". I have never been able to get through the whole
song without emotionally falling apart.

Eisboch


Which album is it?

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 17:32:07 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 14:45:33 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:29:38 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

Read my post regarding an adaptation of a 12-step program for "reformed"
whine-aholics.
I got a kick of how the Rev kept butting in when you & John were
awkwardly starting negotiations on a boat deal.
He must think John just fell off a turnip truck. After all John is
probably one of the few here who has seen Yo Ho up close.
The behavior of Jim and a couple of others here is why I'd never list
the particulars of a boat I want to sell on usenet.

My wife and I have an acquaintance, a nice enough fellow, but one whose
mouth keeps getting him into trouble. He's always commenting on the
relationships of others, and he's almost always wrong, but he keeps on
with his "pronouncements." My wife nicknamed him "JimWit," a play on
"dimwit." It's too back the nickname is taken.

I don't know what Herring is looking for, but I suspect he wants a
Parker at a firesale price. It's too bad, because had he made me a
respectable offer, I probably would have accepted it.
Harry, I would never make an offer on a boat without an idea of the seller's price,
and some specifics of the boat.

I turned down an offer of $56,500. I've been told an offer in the low
$60's would be reasonable.

The only specific you don't know (assuming the boat is in the shape I've
claimed) is engine hours, and I've stated those are significantly less
than those of the other Parkers described here the last few days.

What else do you need to know to make an offer?

I would have to have definitely decided I want to buy a new boat. I've not made that
decision yet. If, and when, I do, the boat will probably be a Parker, if my choice,
or a Grady, if the wife's choice.



Out of curiousity, I jsut checked out my model boat on boat trader. With
less equipment than I have, and in only "good" condition, the fair
retail is $58,000+ and would be "significantly higher" for a boat in
better than "good" condition. Thus, the price I have in mind to make a
detail is, as I thought, right on the money.

You can't go wrong with a Parker or a Grady. I think the Gradys are
overpriced, though. But they sure are posh.



Unless you've wrecked it since I last saw it, I would say low 60's would probably be
fair for that boat. What does a new one sell for now? What year is your boat, anyway?

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 07:58:13 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Stay tuned for the next installment of the The Reverands.

===========================

Better yet, why not put them in the KF and stop their fun?




I just took one of them out. I guess you're right. I suppose of all the
personalities one encounters on usenet, the ones I most dislike are the
"holier-than-thou's" who don't recognize when they are falling off the
wagon...again.

I should be more mellow today. One of my kids sent me a collection of
Neville Brothers CDs, and I've been listening to Aaron Neville telling it
like it is.


I've got a superaudio CD of Neville, done in 6 channel stereo. One of the
recordings is "Ave Maria". I have never been able to get through the
whole song without emotionally falling apart.

Eisboch


That is indeed one of my favorite songs..........also done very well by
Celine Dion and also Andrea Bocelli.

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 17:50:26 -0500, JohnH wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 17:32:07 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 14:45:33 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:29:38 -0500, Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

Read my post regarding an adaptation of a 12-step program for "reformed"
whine-aholics.
I got a kick of how the Rev kept butting in when you & John were
awkwardly starting negotiations on a boat deal.
He must think John just fell off a turnip truck. After all John is
probably one of the few here who has seen Yo Ho up close.
The behavior of Jim and a couple of others here is why I'd never list
the particulars of a boat I want to sell on usenet.

My wife and I have an acquaintance, a nice enough fellow, but one whose
mouth keeps getting him into trouble. He's always commenting on the
relationships of others, and he's almost always wrong, but he keeps on
with his "pronouncements." My wife nicknamed him "JimWit," a play on
"dimwit." It's too back the nickname is taken.

I don't know what Herring is looking for, but I suspect he wants a
Parker at a firesale price. It's too bad, because had he made me a
respectable offer, I probably would have accepted it.
Harry, I would never make an offer on a boat without an idea of the seller's price,
and some specifics of the boat.

I turned down an offer of $56,500. I've been told an offer in the low
$60's would be reasonable.

The only specific you don't know (assuming the boat is in the shape I've
claimed) is engine hours, and I've stated those are significantly less
than those of the other Parkers described here the last few days.

What else do you need to know to make an offer?

I would have to have definitely decided I want to buy a new boat. I've not made that
decision yet. If, and when, I do, the boat will probably be a Parker, if my choice,
or a Grady, if the wife's choice.



Out of curiousity, I jsut checked out my model boat on boat trader. With
less equipment than I have, and in only "good" condition, the fair
retail is $58,000+ and would be "significantly higher" for a boat in
better than "good" condition. Thus, the price I have in mind to make a
detail is, as I thought, right on the money.

You can't go wrong with a Parker or a Grady. I think the Gradys are
overpriced, though. But they sure are posh.



Unless you've wrecked it since I last saw it, I would say low 60's would probably be
fair for that boat. What does a new one sell for now? What year is your boat, anyway?

PS: TriState has this one on their site:

25' PARKER 2005 W /C YAMAHA F225 $51,995

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 17:50:26 -0500, JohnH wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 17:32:07 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 14:45:33 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:29:38 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

Don White wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

Read my post regarding an adaptation of a 12-step program for
"reformed"
whine-aholics.
I got a kick of how the Rev kept butting in when you & John were
awkwardly starting negotiations on a boat deal.
He must think John just fell off a turnip truck. After all John is
probably one of the few here who has seen Yo Ho up close.
The behavior of Jim and a couple of others here is why I'd never
list
the particulars of a boat I want to sell on usenet.

My wife and I have an acquaintance, a nice enough fellow, but one
whose
mouth keeps getting him into trouble. He's always commenting on the
relationships of others, and he's almost always wrong, but he keeps
on
with his "pronouncements." My wife nicknamed him "JimWit," a play on
"dimwit." It's too back the nickname is taken.

I don't know what Herring is looking for, but I suspect he wants a
Parker at a firesale price. It's too bad, because had he made me a
respectable offer, I probably would have accepted it.
Harry, I would never make an offer on a boat without an idea of the
seller's price,
and some specifics of the boat.

I turned down an offer of $56,500. I've been told an offer in the low
$60's would be reasonable.

The only specific you don't know (assuming the boat is in the shape
I've
claimed) is engine hours, and I've stated those are significantly less
than those of the other Parkers described here the last few days.

What else do you need to know to make an offer?

I would have to have definitely decided I want to buy a new boat. I've
not made that
decision yet. If, and when, I do, the boat will probably be a Parker,
if my choice,
or a Grady, if the wife's choice.



Out of curiousity, I jsut checked out my model boat on boat trader. With
less equipment than I have, and in only "good" condition, the fair
retail is $58,000+ and would be "significantly higher" for a boat in
better than "good" condition. Thus, the price I have in mind to make a
detail is, as I thought, right on the money.

You can't go wrong with a Parker or a Grady. I think the Gradys are
overpriced, though. But they sure are posh.



Unless you've wrecked it since I last saw it, I would say low 60's would
probably be
fair for that boat. What does a new one sell for now? What year is your
boat, anyway?

PS: TriState has this one on their site:

25' PARKER 2005 W /C YAMAHA F225 $51,995

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to
resolve it."
Rene Descartes

You can do a lot of upgrading on electronics with that spare $10,000 you
would save on this compared to Krause's boat, plus you will have a boat that
is 2 years younger his.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...



Which album is it?

--
John H.


I had to run downstairs to get it. It's not a superaudio CD as I previously
stated, it's a DVD-Audio (not to be confused with a music video DVD). Very
high quality recording and mixing, in 96kHz DVD-Audio format, THX and 48kHz
Dolby Digital 5.1 formats.

It contains many of his religious type recordings. Not to imply that I am
religious, I just appreciate some classic compositions combined with an
excellent rendition and a superb audio recording.

Silverline Records, AAron Neville, "Believe".

Eisboch

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:21:53 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .



Which album is it?

--
John H.


I had to run downstairs to get it. It's not a superaudio CD as I previously
stated, it's a DVD-Audio (not to be confused with a music video DVD). Very
high quality recording and mixing, in 96kHz DVD-Audio format, THX and 48kHz
Dolby Digital 5.1 formats.

It contains many of his religious type recordings. Not to imply that I am
religious, I just appreciate some classic compositions combined with an
excellent rendition and a superb audio recording.

Silverline Records, AAron Neville, "Believe".

Eisboch


Thanks! And, disregard my message having me filtered!

--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:21:53 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .



Which album is it?

--
John H.


I had to run downstairs to get it. It's not a superaudio CD as I previously
stated, it's a DVD-Audio (not to be confused with a music video DVD). Very
high quality recording and mixing, in 96kHz DVD-Audio format, THX and 48kHz
Dolby Digital 5.1 formats.

It contains many of his religious type recordings. Not to imply that I am
religious, I just appreciate some classic compositions combined with an
excellent rendition and a superb audio recording.

Silverline Records, AAron Neville, "Believe".

Eisboch


PS. Sound bites from the album can be found at:

http://www.mp3.com/albums/568593/summary.html


--
John H.

"Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes

wrote:
K. Smith wrote:

wrote:

30. JIMinFL





I think you could strip all the gelcoat entirely off a boat and it
would still float. If the fibers were adequately wetted out with resin,
the hull wouldn't even absorb water (or "wick" it around). That seems
to be where we disagree.




Now you are qualifing with "adequately wetted out with resin". Sure
some
better hulls will be more resistant to water penetration. The cheaper
hulls
still depend on the gel coat to keep the water out

******

:-)

When one states that water is going to leak through the frp laminate
and into the boat unless it is somehow stopped by the gelcoat- and if
one means "if the hull is defective.......", then it would be best to
so state. When talking about general functions of gelcoat, laminate,
etc it would be customary to assume one is talking about a standard
hull rather than a defective one.

No builder depends on gelcoat to keep water from leaking into the
bilge.


Gee Chuck I think that's a bit of a statement. Most fibreglass
laminates are pretty porous if there are no barriers.

I'm not saying water would "flow" as such, but certainly it will seep
into the glass & definitely damage it over time.

On the other side if anyone did actually wet the layup enough that it
was truly water "proof" then it would be a very weakened laminate,
overly heavy & expensive waste of resin.

The best fix thus far is a good outer barrier usually of vinyl ester
resins in conjunction with a tissue tie layer. Even inside you need
flowcoat or such to stop the laminate being too porous from that direction.

K


I agree that fiberglass can allow water molecules to penetrate through.

There was an often referenced demonstration where somebody built a
fiberglass box, filled it with water, and bonded an air-tight top. It
sat in a classroom under daily observation, and no water was ever seen
leaking out. When the box was opened, several months later,
it was bone dry. I can't honestly say whether the box in the experiment
was covered with
gelcoat, paint, or consisted of exosed glass cloth

That's far different from a theory that gelcoat.... (which is more
porous than the laminate itself, causing the water that penetrates it
to stop or slow down when it reaches the
laminate below and hang around long enough to foster chemical reactions
that produce the gas that creates blisters)... waterproofs the laminate
to prevent leaking.

According to this observation from Pascoe's essay on blisters:

"Blistering involves only the gel coat and surface mat in 99% of the
cases. This is due to the fact that the structural fabrics, such as
roving, get saturated better. Its also because the water is less likely
to penetrate beyond the mat and, even if it does, woven fabrics do not
have the weak gel coat factor and are much too strong to allow whatever
pressure may develop within a void to cause a separation. The incidence
of blisters occurring within structural laminates is extremely small."

It would make more sense to use the structural laminate to "waterproof"
the gelcoat than to say that the gelcoat somehow seals or waterproofs
the laminate.

A vinylester barrier has proven to be extremely effective in reducing,
and in many cases eliminating, the tendency for FRP hulls to blister.


Certainly anyone can say that in 99% of cases this or that etc but often
osmotic damage is much more than cosmetic & certainly my own personal
observation confirms woven laminate can absorb moisture as much as any
other glass.

Indeed a layup that may absorb water might be better than a fully
saturated one that won't; because if it's dripping with resin it's
likely to be very much compromised strengthwise. These days where
material weight & cost demand that hulls be "designed" rather than just
follow established practice (read the old idea that thicker must be
better) then the strength of a particular laminate can be critical.

I will agree though about "blistering" osmosis or whatever label you
use, is probably more a potential worry than an actual worry. Here they
have a rejoinder about fibreglass boats "show me the documented case of
a substantial boat ever sinking due to blistering" & it's a good question:-)

K

JIMinFL wrote:


My position is that damaged gelcoat may cause a FRP hull to leak. Also my
position is that a function of gelcoat is to waterproof a FRP hull.


And we seriously disagree. Primarily because gelcoat is porous and
water passes through it more freely than through the structural
laminates below.

But that's what makes a horse race. :-)