trainfan1 wrote:
markvictor wrote:

trainfan1 wrote:

markvictor wrote:

EFI? brand new alpha? are you in base timing mode?


Who are you responding to? What are you responding to? Who said EFI?

You're confusing yourself immensley.

Take for example a brand new Alpha 135. Disconnect the interrupter.
Guess what? It wont come out of gear, even at idle(in water, under
way), unless you use the cable and pull the shift lever past neutral
into reverse... then guess what? you're in reverse! From neutral, it'll
go INTO gear all day long no matter how fast you shift & throttle(&
actually, the faster you shift the better for the dog & gears in the
foot - none of that chunka-chunka-chunka-chunka-clunk stuff...).

Makes docking tough.

Now connect the interrupter on our EXAMPLE brand new Alpha 135. Shifts
like a dream(at least as good as a dog clutch leg can)!

You obviously do not understand the need for an interrupter on the Alpha
leg. (135hp is a carb engine)

It's for getting out of gear, in water. Engine running. Period.

Not running, or on the flush muffs, you don't need the interrupter, in
fact it shouldn't even activate... it's action is based on the force
needed to overcome the resistance of a drive working against the water,
the ratcheted clutch dog teeth embedded into the drive gear, which is
the exact problem the OP has.

Now he's telling us the idle is twice as high as it should be, which
compounds the problem - even more force demanded of that lower shift
cable. Without the interrupter, he's headed for a docking, trailering,
or maneuvering disaster.

Rob


So like I said, he needs to set the idle correctly and adjust his cable
correctly and that will most likely permit his drive to shift correctly
The only thing confusing me is the the notion that a fixed ratio drive
with a positive engagement clutch can have a change in engine speed
relative to shaft speed while the clutch is engaged...
Immensely only has 2 "e"s


1st, you are misunderstanding the statement. Water flow over the prop
while decelerating will unload the drivetrain - will try to "push" the
engine - such that the interrupter will not come into play. Gear ratio
has nothing to do with it. This is what is happening to the OP on the
flush muffs, too... no load - no interrupter needed.

2nd, the Alpha clutch dog gears are back-cut and ramped, so that if the
prop is "overturned" it will "skip" teeth. Gear ratio has nothing to do
with it.

http://marineengineparts.com/shopsit...ia/18-2202.jpg

Rob

If you took the time to read my post, you would have known that I
understand that perfectly as I stated that the water underway would
unload the clutch, read before you reply...
also note the update from the original poster about the lack of effort
when the shifter DOES return to the neutral detent, and the drive
remains engaged... experience gained from the 5 hundred drives or so
that come through our shop each year tells me that by adjusting the
shift cable end to the factory position at the bottom of the oval slot
will usually solve the symptoms described if the idle is correct...Not
always, of course, but any good tech will adjust to spec before
recommending parts changing...The interrupt actuates due to high clutch
load, or false load caused by a cable, or a bushing or shaft problem,
not just as a matter of course.. the poster stated that he does
occasionally have interrupter activation, but the drive remains in gear
when the control lever is in neutral, so again, I would look at cable
adjustment at the cantilever for correct throw and set idle to spec...

"markvictor" wrote in message
oups.com...

If you took the time to read my post, you would have known that I
understand that perfectly as I stated that the water underway would
unload the clutch, read before you reply...
also note the update from the original poster about the lack of effort
when the shifter DOES return to the neutral detent, and the drive
remains engaged... experience gained from the 5 hundred drives or so
that come through our shop each year tells me that by adjusting the
shift cable end to the factory position at the bottom of the oval slot
will usually solve the symptoms described if the idle is correct...Not
always, of course, but any good tech will adjust to spec before
recommending parts changing...The interrupt actuates due to high clutch
load, or false load caused by a cable, or a bushing or shaft problem,
not just as a matter of course.. the poster stated that he does
occasionally have interrupter activation, but the drive remains in gear
when the control lever is in neutral, so again, I would look at cable
adjustment at the cantilever for correct throw and set idle to spec...

I think you guys will both agree that the high idle needs to be addressed
first. Also, the owner needs to say weather he is having this problem when
he shifts back and forth while tied to the dock. This will determine the
need to have any discussion on weather or not the sliding clutch is unloaded
while shifting underway.
Jim

Thanks again....

I will try it this weekend at the dock, it may be the idle...

again, I do not have the manual so don't know the specs of what the
idle should be...so the help you guys provide (or agree upon) is my
manual. I will idle it down to 600rpm on land and then take it to the
water as my first step to a "cheaper" resolution.

thanks

Scott

135 hp mercruiser 4 cyl

Not going into idle usually means the shift interupter switch is not working
if it's an alpha. Usually you keep pulling harder and then it goes all the
way into the other gear.

Alphas are designed so the engine torque holds them in gear. When you pull
on the shifter tension on the main cable housing activates the ignition
interupter switch on that black plate when the shift cables connect. This
causes the engine to hesitate and that takes the torque off the input gear.
Then the cable can pull it into neutral. There are adjustment procedures in
the manual. You also want to make sure you cables are routed so they do not
have any sharp turns. And it is important that the housing on the cable
from the shifter not be fastened tightly to anything back near the engine.
It is that housing trying to pull opposite the cable that activates the
switch. It's a rube goldberg design but when adjusted properly it works.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks again....

I will try it this weekend at the dock, it may be the idle...

again, I do not have the manual so don't know the specs of what the
idle should be...so the help you guys provide (or agree upon) is my
manual. I will idle it down to 600rpm on land and then take it to the
water as my first step to a "cheaper" resolution.

thanks

Scott

ok...took the idle down to 600rpm....seems to me what happens is that
if i throttle, then go back to no throttle, the arm ( for lack of
terminology) on the carburator does not go back down to its idle speed,
it stays in throttle position unless i push it back down with my finger
then it goes down to idle speed and stays there..Make sense?? like the
spring or something is not returning it to idle position unless it has
some "finger force".

With that said any suggestions?

Thanks again from a newbie to all of you. Carzy thread but I am
learning!

the linkage might be rusted up. You might need to add a helper spring. The
cable might be binding. With the throttle closed and the shifter in neutral,
the cable end should line up to its attachment post. The cable shouldn't be
forcing the throttle to close nor should it be holding the throttle open.
Take your time and get this right before going on to shift adjustments. You
will need the manual for the shift adjustments. Don't try to cheat the
factory settings. Good luck.
Jim
"Scott" wrote in message
ups.com...
ok...took the idle down to 600rpm....seems to me what happens is that
if i throttle, then go back to no throttle, the arm ( for lack of
terminology) on the carburator does not go back down to its idle speed,
it stays in throttle position unless i push it back down with my finger
then it goes down to idle speed and stays there..Make sense?? like the
spring or something is not returning it to idle position unless it has
some "finger force".

With that said any suggestions?

Thanks again from a newbie to all of you. Carzy thread but I am
learning!

Jim you say you are in FL....I am in Orlando.
Anyway,I sprayed the idle adjusting area with wd-40. There is some
corrosion in the area and on this boat, I am not sure how to add a
helper spring...(i will research that). Today when I pulled the boat
onto the trailer from the water, got to the point where I didn't need
motor power to push it up and put it in neutral....and it stayed in
drive??? I was not even moving!

I made sure there was no kinks or resitance on the cable from the
shifter to the carb.
The only way to get it to finally go into neutral is to go back and
forth, in and out of fwd to neutral about three times, I then here the
engine die for a split second and it is in neutral.

RPM is at 1100 when I finally get it into neutral.
It drives me crazy mainly because of the safety factor.
Think I should call in the mechanic?

Thanks again

Scott

The idle speed doesn't have that much to do with shifting. Mine idles
pretty around 800rpm because I have a cam in it. It still shifts fine. The
shift linkage and interrupt switch has to be adjusted correctly.

"Scott" wrote in message
ups.com...
ok...took the idle down to 600rpm....seems to me what happens is that
if i throttle, then go back to no throttle, the arm ( for lack of
terminology) on the carburator does not go back down to its idle speed,
it stays in throttle position unless i push it back down with my finger
then it goes down to idle speed and stays there..Make sense?? like the
spring or something is not returning it to idle position unless it has
some "finger force".

With that said any suggestions?

Thanks again from a newbie to all of you. Carzy thread but I am
learning!

"Scott" wrote in message
oups.com...


Jim you say you are in FL....I am in Orlando.

RPM is at 1100 when I finally get it into neutral.
It drives me crazy mainly because of the safety factor.
Think I should call in the mechanic?

Thanks again

Scott


Scott,

You are talking to a good one (JIMinFL) when it comes to this subject. I
went through the same issues you are having (plus several others) with an
old Alpha/350 I/O setup. He kept it going reliably for several years.

RCE