"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
DSK wrote:
Here's a boating topic with room for general & specific observations,
theory, opinion, fact, sea stories. Let's see it.

Why would you choose one type of propulsion over another?

Fair Skies
Doug King



For smaller power boats, say 28' or less, I'd pick outboards because they
have plenty of power, are accessible, don't take up room in the cockpit,
and, best of all, aren't I/O's

For larger boats, straight inboards, gasoline or diesel.

Depends on the boat and usage. Smaller power boats 25' or less used as ski
boats / wakeboard boats inboard. for running shallow rivers for fishing,
inboard jet, or outboard jet. For running medium big rivers 21-25' inboard
jets. For really big rivers 27'+ dual inboard jets. Large docked
sportfishers, inboard diesels. Bass boats O/B's. Bay boats that are docked
o/b's for trailer boats O/B or I/O.

"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:28:59 -0500, DSK wrote:


Are you saying that your engine is not a target because it is too heavy
and difficult to remove


the later. they would literally have to saw off the transom to get
them and thats just not practical.

You're being modest again Tom:-) you bought them so they'd never be
stolen??? have you forgotten to mention their best deterrent to theft??
they're E-Tecs!!!

If they're stolen you're looking for a thief who can't read the name on
them or some other desperate E-Tec victim hoping to get a part that still
works:-)


K

That is actually funny.

Shortwave Sportfishing
foure stroke outboards are passe' - outmoded technology surpassed by
newer, better, faster and more reliable two stroke technolocy.


In theory, two strokes should be almost twice as efficient.
In practice, they still aren't...

wrote:
If you go fast all the time, 2 stroke is probably the way to go but if
you do a lot of "slow" 4 strokes still have the edge.
I notice all the commercial guys running in the Estero River (30-50')
pontoon boats) use 4 strokes.

It's worth noticing what they guys who do it for a living
are using.

But I have an ulterior motive in this thread, I am
considering buying a boat this spring (in fact I have an
offer on the table right now) and if the new 2-stroke
technology is really good, I'd like to try it out. I have
some experience with a small 4 stroke and it was OK.

OTOH one of the boats I'm strongly considering is the
traditional inboard diesel... tried & true!

Fair Skies
Doug King

K. Smith wrote:
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:15:13 -0500, DSK wrote:


Here's a boating topic with room for general & specific observations,
theory, opinion, fact, sea stories. Let's see it.

Why would you choose one type of propulsion over another?


two cycle outboards. with the new injection technology available to
almost every manufacturer, reliability and overall lighter weights,
new lubrications and overall performance, two stroke outboards have it
hands down over four stroke, inboards and diesels.


Gee Tom, so your arm is much better I see:-) or did you let the other
one go for a minute???

The only manufacturer still trying to make 2 stroke OBs is the new
French kid who got it as a bequeath from Bombardier who got it at the
OMC bankruptcy auction great pedigree yes??? (talk about couldn't give
it away). Using the failed technology of Ficht which was so
comprehensively shown to be faulty that it brought an American icon Co
down.

The so called changes, apart from dumping the name Ficht of course, are
only to deal with the symptoms of the problem & don't in any manner
address the core issue, which I say is; too low an injection pressure,
the fuel is not sufficiently atomised, the mixture is deliberately & EPA
necessarily extremely lean at low to medium revs, the lubrication is
very risky & they've yet to be shown to be anything other than an
elcheapo attempt to rip people off with more Ficht.

Their so called "improvements" absolutely confirm the case against them;

(i) "Special" high melting temp alloy for the pistons why??? because
the poorly atomised lean fuel creates excessive heat in the pistons &
when they looked at dead Fichts amateur (see more French:-)) like they
though hey we know we'll make the pistons higher melting point!!! What a
joke!!! Long long before even the lowest of tech aluminium alloys even
looks like getting too hot the engine is in terminal detonation caused
by excess heat.

(ii) "Special" treated bores why??? again see (i) these idiots saw
damaged bores after almost certain detonation failures & again figured
OK we'll make the bores tougher!!! What a joke!!!.

(iii) New plumbing why???? Well maybe because the USCG made
Bombardier when they owned it, do a safety recall of Fichts because the
vibration of detonation was allowing the pressurised fuel supply to leak
& fire was a risk??, of course the same detonation was blowing injectors
out of the heads!!! Seriously given that injectors seem to stay in
diesel cyl heads?? ask yourself what the f .................is going on
in there??? Again the same hmmmmmmmmmmmmm lets just make it stronger so
it might stay they more often????? What a joke!!!

(iv) Special dealer only oil is optionally "recommended" why???? Is
it because the normal oil can't stand up too the excess heat generated
by the combo of poor atomisation & lean mixture so gets baked behind the
rings etc???? Have they even further reduced the amounts of oil??? It
seems like the same thinking as i, ii & iii so gee lets see we have an
oil baking problem how can we reduce that ???? Hey lets just reduce the
oil!!!! What a joke!!!!!

Already these engines are sounding just like Ficht, lots of software
"upgrades" & reports of failures. Of course the supporters mostly the
sad owners who can see their boat value sinking (literally) demand
forensic proof, but gee even at their worst on OMC's own admission 4 out
of 5 didn't fail:-) Anyone want a buy a lottery ticket??? good odds 4
outta 5 are winners, the only tricky bit is the tickets can be up around
$15000 a throw:-) 5 outta 5 suffer boat value loss but hey don't blame
me you wanted to go gambling.

K
Tom,
What is the difference between E-Tec and Ficht?

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:03:17 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote:


Tom,
What is the difference between E-Tec and Ficht?

its more a difference in philosophy and engineering tolerances than
complete differences. etec is essentially ficht technology, but
re-engineered, the way the emm handles the ignitiion is more
efficient, the coding is more elegant, new injectors, new cylinder
metal tech, better tolerances, new lubricants - think more, bigger,
betterrer.

interesting that the injectors are being made in australia.

Is your preference in the ETec vs 4 stroke based upon a power to weight
ratio or are there other benefits?

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:46:00 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:44:33 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

foure stroke outboards are passe' - outmoded technology surpassed by
newer, better, faster and more reliable two stroke technolocy.

If you go fast all the time, 2 stroke is probably the way to go but if
you do a lot of "slow" 4 strokes still have the edge.
I notice all the commercial guys running in the Estero River (30-50')
pontoon boats) use 4 strokes.

Now *there's* a helpful comment, especially for one who does a lot of
spring trolling.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Harry Krause wrote:
JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:46:00 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:44:33 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

foure stroke outboards are passe' - outmoded technology surpassed by
newer, better, faster and more reliable two stroke technolocy.
If you go fast all the time, 2 stroke is probably the way to go but if
you do a lot of "slow" 4 strokes still have the edge.
I notice all the commercial guys running in the Estero River (30-50')
pontoon boats) use 4 strokes.

Now *there's* a helpful comment, especially for one who does a lot of
spring trolling.
--
John H




Why is it helpful?

When I lived in Florida, I used to run my 90hp and then 115hp two-stroke
Merc for hours and hours at trolling speeds without any problems. My
Optimax Merc also ran nicely at trolling speeds.

An awful lot of time in this newsgroup is spent splitting hairs.
Harry and Tom,
Isn't E-Tec and Ficht more likely to have problems at trolling speed
than a 4 stroke? The big advantage E-Tec and Ficht have over 4 stroke
is weight.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:43:00 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:32:58 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:03:17 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote:


Tom,
What is the difference between E-Tec and Ficht?

its more a difference in philosophy and engineering tolerances than
complete differences. etec is essentially ficht technology, but
re-engineered, the way the emm handles the ignitiion is more
efficient, the coding is more elegant, new injectors, new cylinder
metal tech, better tolerances, new lubricants - think more, bigger,
betterrer.

interesting that the injectors are being made in australia.

Is your preference in the ETec vs 4 stroke based upon a power to weight
ratio or are there other benefits?

brand loyalty is part of it. i liked the way bombardier handled the
ficht situation by admitting there was a problem, then fixing it. they
saw the potential of ficht and redesigned/reengineered it to make it
right.

plus i like new technology risks that pay off. etec has almost
everything over four stroke. there is nothing wrong with four stroke
technology, but its not as efficient, weighs more and flat out hands
down etecs out perform any other outboard on the market today.

not to mention the outstanding emissions figures.

there is a couple in my marina that has a regulator which is very
similar to my contender. they have twin 250 yamaha four stroke on
theirs. my boat has a bettter top end, better hole shot, better
accelleration and i weigh more plus giving away 50 horsepower.

When looking at them on the Evinrude site, and reading about their
dependability, I was surprised that the warranty was for only three years.
It would seem like Evinrude could help their sales a bunch by putting out a
five year warranty, given all the claims they make.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 08:34:22 -0500, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:46:00 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:44:33 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

foure stroke outboards are passe' - outmoded technology surpassed by
newer, better, faster and more reliable two stroke technolocy.
If you go fast all the time, 2 stroke is probably the way to go but if
you do a lot of "slow" 4 strokes still have the edge.
I notice all the commercial guys running in the Estero River (30-50')
pontoon boats) use 4 strokes.

Now *there's* a helpful comment, especially for one who does a lot of
spring trolling.
--
John H




Why is it helpful?

When I lived in Florida, I used to run my 90hp and then 115hp two-stroke
Merc for hours and hours at trolling speeds without any problems. My
Optimax Merc also ran nicely at trolling speeds.

An awful lot of time in this newsgroup is spent splitting hairs.

Helpful because until now I'd not considered a difference in capabilities
at trolling speeds. I'd be interested in comparing differences with the new
engines, not the older ones.
--
John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Harry Krause wrote:
Reggie Smithers wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 01:46:00 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:44:33 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

foure stroke outboards are passe' - outmoded technology surpassed by
newer, better, faster and more reliable two stroke technolocy.
If you go fast all the time, 2 stroke is probably the way to go but if
you do a lot of "slow" 4 strokes still have the edge.
I notice all the commercial guys running in the Estero River (30-50')
pontoon boats) use 4 strokes.
Now *there's* a helpful comment, especially for one who does a lot of
spring trolling.
--
John H



Why is it helpful?

When I lived in Florida, I used to run my 90hp and then 115hp
two-stroke Merc for hours and hours at trolling speeds without any
problems. My Optimax Merc also ran nicely at trolling speeds.

An awful lot of time in this newsgroup is spent splitting hairs.
Harry and Tom,
Isn't E-Tec and Ficht more likely to have problems at trolling speed
than a 4 stroke? The big advantage E-Tec and Ficht have over 4 stroke
is weight.



I can only relate my experiences with two cycle and two cycle Optimax
outboards. None ever presented any problems at trolling speeds.

Further, when I was a kid summering on the edge of LI Sound, we trolled
for stripers for hours at a time with two cycle outboards.


The mfg'er did concede there were some problems (I read about 20% of the
engines had the problem to varying degrees) with oil/gas ratio as the
slower speeds. The old outlawed polluting 2 stroke used a oil
pre-mixture high enough that the engine was properly lubed at the slower
speeds. I remember reading someone in here used to say he premixed his
oil enough that it would smoke, then he knew it was protected. Too bad
all the fish in his area died.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************