Oh please....hard liquor will wreck your body if used incorrectly.

Sure, use the excuse that since that's already legal then it oughta be OK
for more. Puh-leeze.

He was found dead in a cheap motel room. 45 years old, IIRC.

Thus voting himself off the island.

"Bill Kearney" wrote in message
t...
Oh please....hard liquor will wreck your body if used incorrectly.

Sure, use the excuse that since that's already legal then it oughta be OK
for more. Puh-leeze.

It's pretty obvious to emergency room doctors that keeping these drugs
illegal doesn't do much to keep them out of the hands of people who want
them. Here's a true or false issue for you: The primary effect of making
drugs illegal is to create an environment of violence surrounding the
trafficking in these drugs, which is more dangerous to the public than the
drugs themselves.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Bill Kearney" wrote in message
t...
Oh please....hard liquor will wreck your body if used incorrectly.
Sure, use the excuse that since that's already legal then it oughta be OK
for more. Puh-leeze.

It's pretty obvious to emergency room doctors that keeping these drugs
illegal doesn't do much to keep them out of the hands of people who want
them. Here's a true or false issue for you: The primary effect of making
drugs illegal is to create an environment of violence surrounding the
trafficking in these drugs, which is more dangerous to the public than the
drugs themselves.


Since many drugs are delivered to US shores via boats, I think this is
an on topic discussion so I will answer the question.

True.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 07:48:05 -0800, wrote:

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 19:16:40 -0800, wrote:

Senator Pam Roach has sponsored Senate Bill 6364 to ban "teak
surfing".
She was prompted by one of her constituent organizations, the East
Pierce County Fire and Rescue. This agency had dealt with two tragic
deaths on Lake Tapps due to teak surfing.
oh for petes sake - another do-gooder who wants to save people from
themselves.

do they seriously think a law is going to stop this type of activity?
ill bet there is a fine attached to this - just another revenue raiser
for the state.

another useless piece of legislation.
Actually, not just "another piece of useless legislation" designed to
generate fines.

Right now, if a cop sees some 16 year old kid running a boat while some
14 or 15 year old
is teak surfing, about all the cop can do is pull them over and give
them a lecture about safety. Of course once the cop is out of sight,
the allure of teak surfing is immediately tripled, because not only is
it some sort of fun, but now it's also borderline dangerous *and* it
****es off the cops.

If there's a law, the cops can go as far as arresting the operator, if
need be, to see that the teak surfing stops.

There's a difference between being mentally defective ("should be
removed from the gene pool") and uninformed. A lot of teak surfers are
probably kids who don't ordinarily spend a lot of time around boats,
and when "all" their friends are doing it they just assume it's a
normal activity.

Here's hoping you never answer a knock on your door to learn that a kid
or a grandkid was killed while doing something others would consider
"stupid". My bet is that the last thought to cross your mind would be,
"Oh, well. If they were that stupid they didn't deserve to live in the
first place and it's a good thing they died before they could
reproduce."

We're talking actual lives here, not some abstract talk show platitude.
there are laws against drink operating - less than 10% of people
operating a boat drunk are caught. there are laws concerning the
operation of boats by those under 16 - i can't tell you how many 12 to
16 yo kids i see on pwcs and pwc type boats operating in state parks
of all things - theres a law against that too. oh, lets talk about
operating with kids aboard w/o life preservers - theres a law about
that i think.

its still saving people from themselves. whats next - no bungee
jumping? sky diving? snowboarding? soccer? baseball? people get
seriously injured in those sports all the time - in particular soccer
where serious knee/ankle and head injuries occur on a regular basis.



bungee jumping, sky diving, snowboarding, soccer, baseball etc are all
ordinarily survivable.

sucking in CO fumes almost directly from the exhaust port usuallly is
not.



it is what it is chuck - just another grandstand play by some small
time politician making a name for themselves under the guise of public
safety.

its bull**** of the first order and just another way to produce
revenue along the way.

Chuck,
The reason teak surfing is popular is very few people who do it are killed
or end up in the hospital. If 25% - 50% of the people who teak surfed
died, it would no longer be popular.

Yes there are some who do die or go to the hospital, but the vast majority
survive, and if the CO damages brain cells, they are too stupid to realize
it.

I really don't care if they make it illegal, but any parent who owned a
boat and did not let the kids know the danger is just as dumb as the kids.
Drugs are illegal and they are still used and abused.

I for one wished they would legalize all drugs. All illegal drugs do is
create a very profitable business for criminals, force drug users to
commit crimes to support their expensive habits and divert police
resources to fight a war we will never win. It didn't work for alcohol,
it isn't working for drugs.

It also make for a bigger class of criminals, once convicted, the guvmint
gets more and more control over you.


Making Teak Surfing illegal will not eliminate teak surfing anymore than
making drugs illegal eliminated drug abuse.
--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

On 26 Jan 2006 19:33:09 -0800, wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 07:48:05 -0800, wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 19:16:40 -0800, wrote:

Senator Pam Roach has sponsored Senate Bill 6364 to ban "teak surfing".
She was prompted by one of her constituent organizations, the East
Pierce County Fire and Rescue. This agency had dealt with two tragic
deaths on Lake Tapps due to teak surfing.

oh for petes sake - another do-gooder who wants to save people from
themselves.

do they seriously think a law is going to stop this type of activity?
ill bet there is a fine attached to this - just another revenue raiser
for the state.

another useless piece of legislation.

Actually, not just "another piece of useless legislation" designed to
generate fines.

Right now, if a cop sees some 16 year old kid running a boat while some
14 or 15 year old
is teak surfing, about all the cop can do is pull them over and give
them a lecture about safety. Of course once the cop is out of sight,
the allure of teak surfing is immediately tripled, because not only is
it some sort of fun, but now it's also borderline dangerous *and* it
****es off the cops.

If there's a law, the cops can go as far as arresting the operator, if
need be, to see that the teak surfing stops.

There's a difference between being mentally defective ("should be
removed from the gene pool") and uninformed. A lot of teak surfers are
probably kids who don't ordinarily spend a lot of time around boats,
and when "all" their friends are doing it they just assume it's a
normal activity.

Here's hoping you never answer a knock on your door to learn that a kid
or a grandkid was killed while doing something others would consider
"stupid". My bet is that the last thought to cross your mind would be,
"Oh, well. If they were that stupid they didn't deserve to live in the
first place and it's a good thing they died before they could
reproduce."

We're talking actual lives here, not some abstract talk show platitude.

there are laws against drink operating - less than 10% of people
operating a boat drunk are caught. there are laws concerning the
operation of boats by those under 16 - i can't tell you how many 12 to
16 yo kids i see on pwcs and pwc type boats operating in state parks
of all things - theres a law against that too. oh, lets talk about
operating with kids aboard w/o life preservers - theres a law about
that i think.

its still saving people from themselves. whats next - no bungee
jumping? sky diving? snowboarding? soccer? baseball? people get
seriously injured in those sports all the time - in particular soccer
where serious knee/ankle and head injuries occur on a regular basis.



bungee jumping, sky diving, snowboarding, soccer, baseball etc are all
ordinarily survivable.

sucking in CO fumes almost directly from the exhaust port usuallly is
not.




it is what it is chuck - just another grandstand play by some small
time politician making a name for themselves under the guise of public
safety.

its bull**** of the first order and just another way to produce
revenue along the way.

Chuck - I haven't forgotten the peanuts. It's just that the boiled ones are
a little harder to come by then I thought. I'm going down to Richmond
tomorrow to see the daughter. Hopefully I'll be able to pick 'em up there.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Reggie Smithers wrote:
..

Chuck,
The reason teak surfing is popular is very few people who do it are
killed or end up in the hospital. If 25% - 50% of the people who teak
surfed died, it would no longer be popular.

Yes there are some who do die or go to the hospital, but the vast
majority survive, and if the CO damages brain cells, they are too stupid
to realize it.

I really don't care if they make it illegal, but any parent who owned a
boat and did not let the kids know the danger is just as dumb as the
kids. Drugs are illegal and they are still used and abused.

I for one wished they would legalize all drugs. All illegal drugs do is
create a very profitable business for criminals, force drug users to
commit crimes to support their expensive habits and divert police
resources to fight a war we will never win. It didn't work for alcohol,
it isn't working for drugs.

Making Teak Surfing illegal will not eliminate teak surfing anymore than
making drugs illegal eliminated drug abuse.
--
Reggie


Using your drug analogy: When was the last time you heard of a syringe
manufacturer being sued by the surviving family of an OD'd addict
because some junkie used the rig to shoot himself to death? You don't-
and the reason is because the use of heroin is illegal.
Manufacturers and insurance companies usually aren't liable for damages
done to people who are not only using the product unwisely, but
illegally. (That's been the central argument in a lot of successful
defenses by firearms companies as well).

Without a law against teak surfing, a lot of these ignorant parents
will go to court after a son or daughter is killed by the activity and
a lot of ignorant judges and juries will award millions or hundreds of
millions of dollars damages. We will all see that in our insurance
bills, it might even result in the redesign of boat exhaust....(how
about a 7-foot vertical dry stack on every runabout? how about the
elimination of swim platforms entirely?)....and the greatest impact of
these idiots sucking in exhaust while hanging onto a swim platform will
be the cumulative effect on the rest of society rather than the tragic
death of an uninformed or reckless kid.

If you can't support making it illegal so that law enforcement can
force the activity to stop when observed and save a few lives along the
way, perhaps you might consider supporting
such a law to save the rest of the boating public a lot of money and
additional government interference in the pastime.

A law against teak surfing only affects those idiots who want to do it.
And their friends and families. A bunch of them will do it anyway, (and
their deaths will be a tragedy), but if they're doing something illegal
when they die it is less likely to blow back on the legal and
comparatively safe aspects of the pastime that are enjoyed by millions.

Pros: 1. A few deaths might be prevented by law enforcement
2. It will make it harder to sue boat manufacturers
3. Less chance of unnecessary and goofy mandatory boat
modifications

Cons: There will be a new law that restricts a dangerous behavior that
isn't constitutionally protected and that you, I, and 99% of people
would never consider engaging in, anyway.

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 19:33:09 -0800, wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 07:48:05 -0800, wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 19:16:40 -0800, wrote:

Senator Pam Roach has sponsored Senate Bill 6364 to ban "teak surfing".
She was prompted by one of her constituent organizations, the East
Pierce County Fire and Rescue. This agency had dealt with two tragic
deaths on Lake Tapps due to teak surfing.

oh for petes sake - another do-gooder who wants to save people from
themselves.

do they seriously think a law is going to stop this type of activity?
ill bet there is a fine attached to this - just another revenue raiser
for the state.

another useless piece of legislation.

Actually, not just "another piece of useless legislation" designed to
generate fines.

Right now, if a cop sees some 16 year old kid running a boat while some
14 or 15 year old
is teak surfing, about all the cop can do is pull them over and give
them a lecture about safety. Of course once the cop is out of sight,
the allure of teak surfing is immediately tripled, because not only is
it some sort of fun, but now it's also borderline dangerous *and* it
****es off the cops.

If there's a law, the cops can go as far as arresting the operator, if
need be, to see that the teak surfing stops.

There's a difference between being mentally defective ("should be
removed from the gene pool") and uninformed. A lot of teak surfers are
probably kids who don't ordinarily spend a lot of time around boats,
and when "all" their friends are doing it they just assume it's a
normal activity.

Here's hoping you never answer a knock on your door to learn that a kid
or a grandkid was killed while doing something others would consider
"stupid". My bet is that the last thought to cross your mind would be,
"Oh, well. If they were that stupid they didn't deserve to live in the
first place and it's a good thing they died before they could
reproduce."

We're talking actual lives here, not some abstract talk show platitude.

there are laws against drink operating - less than 10% of people
operating a boat drunk are caught. there are laws concerning the
operation of boats by those under 16 - i can't tell you how many 12 to
16 yo kids i see on pwcs and pwc type boats operating in state parks
of all things - theres a law against that too. oh, lets talk about
operating with kids aboard w/o life preservers - theres a law about
that i think.

its still saving people from themselves. whats next - no bungee
jumping? sky diving? snowboarding? soccer? baseball? people get
seriously injured in those sports all the time - in particular soccer
where serious knee/ankle and head injuries occur on a regular basis.

bungee jumping, sky diving, snowboarding, soccer, baseball etc are all
ordinarily survivable.

sucking in CO fumes almost directly from the exhaust port usuallly is
not.

teak surfing is ordinarily survivable too.

bum argument.


Let's say that 1% of teak surfers die and another 10% of repeat teak
surfers are permanently impaired. Probably about the same impairment
percentage associated with
the repeated huffing and sniffing of glues and aerosols.

Deaths to baseball and soccer players are almost unheard of. If 1% of
snowboarders died, there would be 2-3 deaths at even a moderate ski
resort every day, all winter. With the possible exception of bungee
jumping, those are all organized sports with rules and regulations
imposed for safe and proper use of the equipment.

Example: When playing baseball it would be a lot easier to steal bases
if the players weren't required to surrender the bat after hitting the
ball. I player A is trying to slide into 2nd and player B is standing
next to the bag ready to tag him with the ball, player A might avoid
the tag if he had the option to beat player B senseless with the bat.
We could just give everybody a club and let them whack each other's
brians out, (might improve ticket sales).............or we can have
some "rules" that make the sport safe and enjoyable
for players and spectators alike.

If baseball was not self-regulating, there would be laws of all types
in place dictating how two rival groups of guys, drinking beer on a
Saturday afternoon, would play together while throwing solid objects
around at high speeds and swinging clubs. Teak surfing is not self
regualting, and waiting for all the idiots to die is not the best
course to take, IMO.

wrote:
Reggie Smithers wrote:
.
Chuck,
The reason teak surfing is popular is very few people who do it are
killed or end up in the hospital. If 25% - 50% of the people who teak
surfed died, it would no longer be popular.

Yes there are some who do die or go to the hospital, but the vast
majority survive, and if the CO damages brain cells, they are too stupid
to realize it.

I really don't care if they make it illegal, but any parent who owned a
boat and did not let the kids know the danger is just as dumb as the
kids. Drugs are illegal and they are still used and abused.

I for one wished they would legalize all drugs. All illegal drugs do is
create a very profitable business for criminals, force drug users to
commit crimes to support their expensive habits and divert police
resources to fight a war we will never win. It didn't work for alcohol,
it isn't working for drugs.

Making Teak Surfing illegal will not eliminate teak surfing anymore than
making drugs illegal eliminated drug abuse.
--
Reggie


Using your drug analogy: When was the last time you heard of a syringe
manufacturer being sued by the surviving family of an OD'd addict
because some junkie used the rig to shoot himself to death? You don't-
and the reason is because the use of heroin is illegal.
Manufacturers and insurance companies usually aren't liable for damages
done to people who are not only using the product unwisely, but
illegally. (That's been the central argument in a lot of successful
defenses by firearms companies as well).

Without a law against teak surfing, a lot of these ignorant parents
will go to court after a son or daughter is killed by the activity and
a lot of ignorant judges and juries will award millions or hundreds of
millions of dollars damages. We will all see that in our insurance
bills, it might even result in the redesign of boat exhaust....(how
about a 7-foot vertical dry stack on every runabout? how about the
elimination of swim platforms entirely?)....and the greatest impact of
these idiots sucking in exhaust while hanging onto a swim platform will
be the cumulative effect on the rest of society rather than the tragic
death of an uninformed or reckless kid.

If you can't support making it illegal so that law enforcement can
force the activity to stop when observed and save a few lives along the
way, perhaps you might consider supporting
such a law to save the rest of the boating public a lot of money and
additional government interference in the pastime.

A law against teak surfing only affects those idiots who want to do it.
And their friends and families. A bunch of them will do it anyway, (and
their deaths will be a tragedy), but if they're doing something illegal
when they die it is less likely to blow back on the legal and
comparatively safe aspects of the pastime that are enjoyed by millions.

Pros: 1. A few deaths might be prevented by law enforcement
2. It will make it harder to sue boat manufacturers
3. Less chance of unnecessary and goofy mandatory boat
modifications

Cons: There will be a new law that restricts a dangerous behavior that
isn't constitutionally protected and that you, I, and 99% of people
would never consider engaging in, anyway.

Chuck,

I have no problem if they pass the law or not. My comments were that it
really would not reduce those who are performing the idiotic stunt.
Today, I think all boats warn about CO problems, especially on the sun
deck or teak deck. They put a yellow sticker warning about the problem
and it makes it much harder to sue the mfg'er. They also warn about the
prop. They also place a warning in the owners manual.

What the law will do is to collect money from the truly idiotic, and I
have no problem with that. It will help pay for the DNR or police.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

JohnH wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 19:33:09 -0800, wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 07:48:05 -0800, wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 19:16:40 -0800, wrote:

Senator Pam Roach has sponsored Senate Bill 6364 to ban "teak surfing".
She was prompted by one of her constituent organizations, the East
Pierce County Fire and Rescue. This agency had dealt with two tragic
deaths on Lake Tapps due to teak surfing.

oh for petes sake - another do-gooder who wants to save people from
themselves.

do they seriously think a law is going to stop this type of activity?
ill bet there is a fine attached to this - just another revenue raiser
for the state.

another useless piece of legislation.

Actually, not just "another piece of useless legislation" designed to
generate fines.

Right now, if a cop sees some 16 year old kid running a boat while some
14 or 15 year old
is teak surfing, about all the cop can do is pull them over and give
them a lecture about safety. Of course once the cop is out of sight,
the allure of teak surfing is immediately tripled, because not only is
it some sort of fun, but now it's also borderline dangerous *and* it
****es off the cops.

If there's a law, the cops can go as far as arresting the operator, if
need be, to see that the teak surfing stops.

There's a difference between being mentally defective ("should be
removed from the gene pool") and uninformed. A lot of teak surfers are
probably kids who don't ordinarily spend a lot of time around boats,
and when "all" their friends are doing it they just assume it's a
normal activity.

Here's hoping you never answer a knock on your door to learn that a kid
or a grandkid was killed while doing something others would consider
"stupid". My bet is that the last thought to cross your mind would be,
"Oh, well. If they were that stupid they didn't deserve to live in the
first place and it's a good thing they died before they could
reproduce."

We're talking actual lives here, not some abstract talk show platitude.

there are laws against drink operating - less than 10% of people
operating a boat drunk are caught. there are laws concerning the
operation of boats by those under 16 - i can't tell you how many 12 to
16 yo kids i see on pwcs and pwc type boats operating in state parks
of all things - theres a law against that too. oh, lets talk about
operating with kids aboard w/o life preservers - theres a law about
that i think.

its still saving people from themselves. whats next - no bungee
jumping? sky diving? snowboarding? soccer? baseball? people get
seriously injured in those sports all the time - in particular soccer
where serious knee/ankle and head injuries occur on a regular basis.



bungee jumping, sky diving, snowboarding, soccer, baseball etc are all
ordinarily survivable.

sucking in CO fumes almost directly from the exhaust port usuallly is
not.




it is what it is chuck - just another grandstand play by some small
time politician making a name for themselves under the guise of public
safety.

its bull**** of the first order and just another way to produce
revenue along the way.

Chuck - I haven't forgotten the peanuts. It's just that the boiled ones are
a little harder to come by then I thought. I'm going down to Richmond
tomorrow to see the daughter. Hopefully I'll be able to pick 'em up there.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************


No big deal.

If you want to send something other than boiled, that would be just
fine. Thanks for remembering.

On 27 Jan 2006 12:12:33 -0800, wrote:


JohnH wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 19:33:09 -0800, wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 26 Jan 2006 07:48:05 -0800, wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 25 Jan 2006 19:16:40 -0800, wrote:

Senator Pam Roach has sponsored Senate Bill 6364 to ban "teak surfing".
She was prompted by one of her constituent organizations, the East
Pierce County Fire and Rescue. This agency had dealt with two tragic
deaths on Lake Tapps due to teak surfing.

oh for petes sake - another do-gooder who wants to save people from
themselves.

do they seriously think a law is going to stop this type of activity?
ill bet there is a fine attached to this - just another revenue raiser
for the state.

another useless piece of legislation.

Actually, not just "another piece of useless legislation" designed to
generate fines.

Right now, if a cop sees some 16 year old kid running a boat while some
14 or 15 year old
is teak surfing, about all the cop can do is pull them over and give
them a lecture about safety. Of course once the cop is out of sight,
the allure of teak surfing is immediately tripled, because not only is
it some sort of fun, but now it's also borderline dangerous *and* it
****es off the cops.

If there's a law, the cops can go as far as arresting the operator, if
need be, to see that the teak surfing stops.

There's a difference between being mentally defective ("should be
removed from the gene pool") and uninformed. A lot of teak surfers are
probably kids who don't ordinarily spend a lot of time around boats,
and when "all" their friends are doing it they just assume it's a
normal activity.

Here's hoping you never answer a knock on your door to learn that a kid
or a grandkid was killed while doing something others would consider
"stupid". My bet is that the last thought to cross your mind would be,
"Oh, well. If they were that stupid they didn't deserve to live in the
first place and it's a good thing they died before they could
reproduce."

We're talking actual lives here, not some abstract talk show platitude.

there are laws against drink operating - less than 10% of people
operating a boat drunk are caught. there are laws concerning the
operation of boats by those under 16 - i can't tell you how many 12 to
16 yo kids i see on pwcs and pwc type boats operating in state parks
of all things - theres a law against that too. oh, lets talk about
operating with kids aboard w/o life preservers - theres a law about
that i think.

its still saving people from themselves. whats next - no bungee
jumping? sky diving? snowboarding? soccer? baseball? people get
seriously injured in those sports all the time - in particular soccer
where serious knee/ankle and head injuries occur on a regular basis.



bungee jumping, sky diving, snowboarding, soccer, baseball etc are all
ordinarily survivable.

sucking in CO fumes almost directly from the exhaust port usuallly is
not.




it is what it is chuck - just another grandstand play by some small
time politician making a name for themselves under the guise of public
safety.

its bull**** of the first order and just another way to produce
revenue along the way.

Chuck - I haven't forgotten the peanuts. It's just that the boiled ones are
a little harder to come by then I thought. I'm going down to Richmond
tomorrow to see the daughter. Hopefully I'll be able to pick 'em up there.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************


No big deal.

If you want to send something other than boiled, that would be just
fine. Thanks for remembering.

No way. Boiled you wanted, boiled you get!
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************