wrote:
you
claimed you couldn't find any failed E-Tecs so in 2 minutes I rustled up
pages of them for you, but you just ignored them. Same story with Matt
he claims to want to know but then .............. doesn't.


the pages you showed didnt convince me there are problems with ETec ..
the one claiming that several blew up at a tournament didnt have much
credibility to me ..

I have no idea about who's credible & which isn't but I do know the
dealers endlessly post spruiking falsehoods & have no credibility at all.

As for Tom have you watched him??? hows his claims now??? if he is full
of it on the fuel what else is the same?? If you are a real boater have
a look at his hours usage claims??? they are way out there given the
time he spends on this NG with his football & camera stroies & other
sundry boring OT posts. Given we know how long it took to actually get
the engines he claimns are his he must be leaving them idling in the
slip??? everything he says is suss I say.


The other smaller issues I beleive but its nothing related to the 2DFI
technology ...

Matt you have been dealer convinced that E-Tec "has" a track record
because that's how the dealers have been told to sell sell sell, but
they don't!!! They were taking orders & not delivering in quantities
till your last season, so give it time & the lean detonation will get
them again. All their "fixes" are for the symptoms none even admit much
less address the real issue.

So far the Etec does seem to be holding up ... that doesnt mean the
fuel use claims are holding up to the expectations ... they really dont
seem to and there are some facts to substantiate that. Facts for
kabooms are still missing

I have linked several sites to failures in the past but as you know the
sites got humpy, assuming you can't read???? after all they don't want
to upset the dealers:-)

K


Matt

Reggie Smithers wrote:
K. Smith wrote:

Reggie Smithers wrote:


Karen,
For me the fallacy in your argument is that over the years we have
seen numerous people make posts in rec.boats and the other boating
NGs whenever they feel they have been slighted by a manufacturer. I
can not remember one complaint about Ficht and Etec, even with the
problems they had initially.

I would still look at a 4 stroke and compare the weight, gas consumption
and sound levels between the 4 stroke and Etec, but I can not find
anything in the last few years that validates your premise.


Honestly Reggie there have been heaps here in this NG, at the time
there were even Ficht specific boards, damn in texas apparently they
were putting up bill boards (how appropriate!!) saying Ficht sucks!!
(don't cross the good ol' boys) but you don't seem motivated to find
them, you claimed you couldn't find any failed E-Tecs so in 2 minutes
I rustled up pages of them for you, but you just ignored them. Same
story with Matt he claims to want to know but then ..............
doesn't.

I know you want me to spoon feed you but it's OK I don't have anything
to prove, however note this is a re-run of Ficht using Ficht & you
don't even take the idiots to task!!!! What you think they'll be your
friends?? believe me when it happens again they'll dump you & run away
as they did last time, with your money also if you're silly enough.

What say you of the E-tec, 11gph @ 35mph??? from the king of the OT
posts, or when Del posts the actual news you sit back & let the
world's biggest non boating nuff nuff liar Krause come out with the
wrong boat story!!!;-) Damn they said that exact same thing about
Ficht!!! I promise you:-) when they had worn out the "it's the oil",
"it's the fuel", "it's the owner", they then said "it's the boat!!":-)
Did you like the fuel BS'ter's rejoinder?? "bull" Honestly this place
is a hoot, again thanks to all.



K

Karen,
I can find problems related to the 1998-2000 model years. I can not
find any on the newer models. As far as "making friends", I really
don't care if someone likes me or not, but I am not interested in
getting into a ****ing contest with anyone, since it does nothing to
further boating discussions. While some people might prefer to respond
to your posts with flames, I have always kept the discussion on topic.

Since these forums discussing the problems with the 2001-2005 Ficht/Etec
problems are readily available, can you point me to a few of them? You
should be able to find a few much quicker than it takes you to type your
average post.


Reggie I accept you're genuine & that's fine but there were no Fichts
from 2001 other than the ones dumped on the unsustecting at give away
prices. Despite the BS about E-Tecs been marketed for 3 yrs that's just
more of the same dealer BS as I suspect you know.

Your last season is the only time they have actually started to market
AND deliver quantities of E-Tec & given that fact the failures being
reported even just in the examples I pasted or linked for you, confirms
to me you or anyone can & should have their own opinion of course, that
this is exactly as I saw with Ficht MK1; as then I say the same will
apply, way too high a failure rate because of lean at power, poor
atomisation, for a loopy injector, hopelessly too low injection pressure
& oiling that is just not even close to being safe.

Note I don't say every one will fail just as not every single aero
engine that is habitually run lean by zealous owners/renters will, but
enough will fail that it's not worth the risk.

I will post more examples as & when I think they will support my cause,
which is to be in this open forum commenting on & saying what I think
about boating related issues.

When I post things please disagree with your reasons for doing so, but
if it's just more of the rah rah we love E-Tec stuff or dealer groupie
hate Karen stuff them I can't really help.

Be aware Bill will never admit to any failures or shortcomings, remember
he was claiming right up to the bitter end of OMC that everything was
fine with Ficht & people should keep buying, even when people were in
this NG with horrendous problems & his advice was usually in essence
"take if to a franchise dealer" why????because it transpired later that
they were on a 30% kickback to keep flogging them!!!!

Why is an over grown whipper snipper motor more expensive than a proper
4 stroke OB of same HP? or even a medium sized car??? because I'd
suggest the only way they could get the dealers to sell this crap again
was to convince them they'd get agg. kickbacks so huge they'd recoup
their losses when OMC rolled over. So feed a dealer if you want but be
careful these are wild feral animals & will have you as a snack the
moment you start to trust them.

K

K. Smith wrote:
Reggie Smithers wrote:
K. Smith wrote:

Reggie Smithers wrote:


Karen,
For me the fallacy in your argument is that over the years we have
seen numerous people make posts in rec.boats and the other boating
NGs whenever they feel they have been slighted by a manufacturer. I
can not remember one complaint about Ficht and Etec, even with the
problems they had initially.

I would still look at a 4 stroke and compare the weight, gas
consumption
and sound levels between the 4 stroke and Etec, but I can not find
anything in the last few years that validates your premise.


Honestly Reggie there have been heaps here in this NG, at the time
there were even Ficht specific boards, damn in texas apparently they
were putting up bill boards (how appropriate!!) saying Ficht sucks!!
(don't cross the good ol' boys) but you don't seem motivated to find
them, you claimed you couldn't find any failed E-Tecs so in 2 minutes
I rustled up pages of them for you, but you just ignored them. Same
story with Matt he claims to want to know but then ..............
doesn't.

I know you want me to spoon feed you but it's OK I don't have
anything to prove, however note this is a re-run of Ficht using Ficht
& you don't even take the idiots to task!!!! What you think they'll
be your friends?? believe me when it happens again they'll dump you &
run away as they did last time, with your money also if you're silly
enough.

What say you of the E-tec, 11gph @ 35mph??? from the king of the OT
posts, or when Del posts the actual news you sit back & let the
world's biggest non boating nuff nuff liar Krause come out with the
wrong boat story!!!;-) Damn they said that exact same thing about
Ficht!!! I promise you:-) when they had worn out the "it's the oil",
"it's the fuel", "it's the owner", they then said "it's the
boat!!":-) Did you like the fuel BS'ter's rejoinder?? "bull" Honestly
this place is a hoot, again thanks to all.



K

Karen,
I can find problems related to the 1998-2000 model years. I can not
find any on the newer models. As far as "making friends", I really
don't care if someone likes me or not, but I am not interested in
getting into a ****ing contest with anyone, since it does nothing to
further boating discussions. While some people might prefer to
respond to your posts with flames, I have always kept the discussion
on topic.

Since these forums discussing the problems with the 2001-2005
Ficht/Etec problems are readily available, can you point me to a few
of them? You should be able to find a few much quicker than it takes
you to type your average post.


Reggie I accept you're genuine & that's fine but there were no Fichts
from 2001 other than the ones dumped on the unsustecting at give away
prices. Despite the BS about E-Tecs been marketed for 3 yrs that's just
more of the same dealer BS as I suspect you know.

Your last season is the only time they have actually started to market
AND deliver quantities of E-Tec & given that fact the failures being
reported even just in the examples I pasted or linked for you, confirms
to me you or anyone can & should have their own opinion of course, that
this is exactly as I saw with Ficht MK1; as then I say the same will
apply, way too high a failure rate because of lean at power, poor
atomisation, for a loopy injector, hopelessly too low injection pressure
& oiling that is just not even close to being safe.

Note I don't say every one will fail just as not every single aero
engine that is habitually run lean by zealous owners/renters will, but
enough will fail that it's not worth the risk.

I will post more examples as & when I think they will support my cause,
which is to be in this open forum commenting on & saying what I think
about boating related issues.

When I post things please disagree with your reasons for doing so, but
if it's just more of the rah rah we love E-Tec stuff or dealer groupie
hate Karen stuff them I can't really help.

Be aware Bill will never admit to any failures or shortcomings, remember
he was claiming right up to the bitter end of OMC that everything was
fine with Ficht & people should keep buying, even when people were in
this NG with horrendous problems & his advice was usually in essence
"take if to a franchise dealer" why????because it transpired later that
they were on a 30% kickback to keep flogging them!!!!

Why is an over grown whipper snipper motor more expensive than a proper
4 stroke OB of same HP? or even a medium sized car??? because I'd
suggest the only way they could get the dealers to sell this crap again
was to convince them they'd get agg. kickbacks so huge they'd recoup
their losses when OMC rolled over. So feed a dealer if you want but be
careful these are wild feral animals & will have you as a snack the
moment you start to trust them.

K
Karen,
As I stated, I have no desire to push any agenda. I am seriously
interested in reading about some of these disgruntled owners of Ficht
and Etec. I have not been able to find these sites, which should be
very easy if this was a unusual problem.

Since this is a non moderated forum, you have ever right to post
anything you want, factual or fiction, but if would help your cause if
you could document this problem with some web sites confirming your
suspension's. Since you have not posted any, it would seem you have had
as much problem as I have finding posts or web sites documented these
problems, with the exception of the 1999-2001 models. If your theory is
correct, after 5 years, there should be a large volume of engine
failures and frustrated owners.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

K. Smith wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
K. Smith wrote:

If any confirmation were needed after OMC, that low pressure DFI using
lean mixtures up into the mid power range doesn't work, take a look at
the Optimaxes & Ficht type systems. They could not be more different
in their execution of basically the same idea, extremely lean mixtures
at low revs fired directly around the spark plug even just to get
ignition (in ficht like systems they even have to just leave the plug
firing!!:-)) Yet they both suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage, gee they'd be too unreliable even as specialty race
engines.

K


What "failure rate" statistics can you cite to back up your claim that
the engines "suffered way too high failure rates for
consumer usage"? Legitimate statistics, please, backed up by some sort
of legitimate science, not your usual crap you extrapolate from reading
about three incidents that took place on a hot day in August on an
unnamed lake and involving three guys working their way through a keg
and bloodworms spread on crackers.


AH AH AH the liar Krause is supposed to have me filtered:-)

The net was full of horror stories about Optimax a few years ago even
this NG has sad owners looking for any sort of answers they could get.

Gee even one of your "star" OMC dealers from the deep north told this NG
he knew of warehouses full of blown Optimax powerheads!!!:-) Love it!!!
I really do. What are you now suggesting Krause?? just because you're a
total liar then this particular OMC dealer is also a liar???? Gee how
the liar worm has turned.

The best evidence is the new 4 strokes & the fact Brunswick are not
going any further, the Optimaxes are dead not as dead as ficht & it's
derivatives but dead is dead. Brunswick atr one stage were lodging
copious patents for "improvements" & not one of them has been put
through to production (some were pretty obvious, like the belt driven
pump, the plumbing etc) so they don't want to throw any more good money
after a failed technology either.

Seems there is only one know person here who still does:-)

K

& the Krause lie for today is his Vietnam lie, the one he concocted when
in a fit of jealousy that John was a true patriot & served his country
like a real man, while socialist scum like Krause cowed behind their
lies back in the safety of their unions.


Then CITE SOME STATISTICS.........
Or are you admitting you don't know what you're talking about, and
going only by heresay?

K. Smith wrote:
wrote:
you
claimed you couldn't find any failed E-Tecs so in 2 minutes I rustled up
pages of them for you, but you just ignored them. Same story with Matt
he claims to want to know but then .............. doesn't.


the pages you showed didnt convince me there are problems with ETec ..
the one claiming that several blew up at a tournament didnt have much
credibility to me ..

I have no idea about who's credible & which isn't but I do know the
dealers endlessly post spruiking falsehoods & have no credibility at all.

Well .. it was a post by someone that so many ETecs had blown up ...
the way it was presented on that BB and nowhere else mentioned did not
seem credible to me ...



As for Tom have you watched him??? hows his claims now??? if he is full
of it on the fuel what else is the same?? If you are a real boater have
a look at his hours usage claims??? they are way out there given the
time he spends on this NG with his football & camera stroies & other
sundry boring OT posts. Given we know how long it took to actually get
the engines he claimns are his he must be leaving them idling in the
slip??? everything he says is suss I say.

I agree .. Tom's fuel use claims do seem to need some recalculating ...
The only useable fuel use data is gph over mph and gph over rpm ..
thats how i present mine ...






The other smaller issues I beleive but its nothing related to the 2DFI
technology ...

Matt you have been dealer convinced that E-Tec "has" a track record
because that's how the dealers have been told to sell sell sell, but
they don't!!! They were taking orders & not delivering in quantities
till your last season, so give it time & the lean detonation will get
them again. All their "fixes" are for the symptoms none even admit much
less address the real issue.

ETecs had issues with the transition period, cold weahter and oil not
flowing from the reservoir ... those are things that can be addressed
.... The real issue is if there is a systematic fault in the design
which will lead to Kabooms




So far the Etec does seem to be holding up ... that doesnt mean the
fuel use claims are holding up to the expectations ... they really dont
seem to and there are some facts to substantiate that. Facts for
kabooms are still missing

I have linked several sites to failures in the past but as you know the
sites got humpy, assuming you can't read???? after all they don't want
to upset the dealers:-)

There were I believe 2 links to kabooms .. one did not seem credible to
me which leaves one report of a kaboom which is not good but does not
prove a design issue.


On another note ... how many kaboomed 4 strokes do we see? And how many
kaboomed conv. 2 strokes do we see? I wonder how different the
numbers are .. Have we heard of a Honda kaboom ? Or yamaha 4 stroke
kaboom?

As sad as it sounds but we will have to accept a certain (small!)
percentage of kabooms with any motor .. a concern would be if a
particular motor or design has significantly more failures ..

A different question I would like to raise are the Verado ... what do
we think of it? It is a little heavy and for my taste to overloaded
with gadgetry like drive by wire, intercoolers and cherger ... these
are components that are just waiting to cause trouble ...

I agree with you that the 2DFI is complicated to design and has the
potential for issues. The big question remains if that is under
control .


Matt