"M" wrote in message
oups.com...


Sorry; the "merc" came from "merc racing." It was tweaked.

Yes thats true .. it was hand assembled and likely tweaked by merc
racing. but the fact is that you or I can walk in the store and buy
these kind of motors.

Matt

but, as I recall, it still had a lower list price than the etec. :-)

del

"Billgran" wrote in message
news

K. Smith wrote:
Paste from an "independent" magazine test.

Not surprisingly given its strong on-water performance, the
Mercury
250XS pulled the most horsepower (252 hp at 5200 rpm). Next was
the
Yamaha (246 hp at 5600 rpm). Evinrude brought up the rear (239 hp
at
5600 rpm).

In terms of torque, the Yamaha 250 HPDI VMax edged Mercury with
268
lb.-ft. at 3800 rpm, vs. the Merc's 267 lb.-ft. at 4400 rpm.
Evinrude came in a distant third, with 250 lb.-ft. at 4000 rpm.

end paste;

Gee those pesky "independent" tests, the dealers must be making
up
the
excuses as we type:-) look at the lack of E-Tec torque!!! Woohoo
this
before your season even starts!!!!

Yes yes I know it's all technically legal, but be aware when the
HP
numbers get big so does that 10% allowance. I assume E-Tec charge
for
a
full 250HP??? Oops silly me now I remember, that's right they're
MORE
expensive than the others.



Hey Karen,

Twice in the above post you mention the lack of E-TEC torque and HP.
If you
would read the magazine article, it is from March of 2003 and they are
comparing the FICHT motor (Evinrude DI), not an E-TEC!!!!! That
is 2
years BEFORE the V-6 E-TEC was put into production.

Talk about "spruiking" in reverse. Bad mouthing an engine and not even
knowing which one is being tested !!!!

Besides that, notice that the magazine comments on how well the FICHT
runs
compared to the others, and that was the one they preferred.

Bill Grannis
service manager

The article from a few months ago that I posted the fuel consumption
figures from was most certainly an etec. You work for the magazine,
right? Their numbers shouldn't be a surprise to you.

I'm not bad mouthing anyone, but some folks are posting like an etec is
some sort of magic motor that gets way better gas mileage than a Optimax
or HPDI or 4Stroke, which doesn't seem to be confirmed by B&WB. Great
magazine, by the way. I read it cover to cover every issue.

del

yes I found that interesting (and hard to beleive) too

But if you look at the total cost for the boat and motor the merc was
the most expensive..

Matt

P.S. Take in mind that one of the other posters was right that it was a
FICHT not Etec.

Skipper wrote:
Billgran wrote:

"Skipper" wrote...

OK, Bill, while you continue to go after and try to insult K, perhaps it
time for you to answer one question. Karen warned this NG about Ficht
problems *before* the collapse and bankruptcy of OMC. You were spruiking
OMC and Ficht throughout her warnings. Thousands were hurt in the Ficht
debacle. Is it not time for you to come clean and apologize to all those
folks you led astray?

Skipper,

Don't you think she should apologize for trying to "hoodwink" people who
read her posts?

There is an old saying, that goes, "Never bet on a "nag" in a thoroughbred
horserace". Don't you think that is appropriate in this situation???

Actually, in light of the Ficht debacle and your actions in encouraging
folks to buy these troubled engines, indeed, I believe an apology is in
order. Thousands were hurt, Bill.

--
Skipper


"Thousands were hurt?" Are you kidding? This group is a couple of dozen
guys who sit around gabbing among themselves. Supposed to be about
boats. Only if everybody ran out and bought a 75 engines apiece were
"thousands" ever hurt, and we regularly hear from owners of these
engines who have been satisfied all along. Obviously there are
differences of opinion on this issue, and those are best resolved by
examining facts rather than calling for people of he opposing stripe to
"apologize". It probably would have been useful for Karen to disclose
that the article was written in 2003, rather than "just before your
season's starting....", but let's give her the benefit of the doubt.
Something published in the US in 2003 may just now be showing up as a
reprint in an Australian boating magazine. BTW, how does this concern
you? You don't own anything upon which to mount an outboard of any
variety

..

wrote:

Actually, in light of the Ficht debacle and your actions in encouraging
folks to buy these troubled engines, indeed, I believe an apology is in
order. Thousands were hurt, Bill.

"Thousands were hurt?" Are you kidding?

"Shortly after filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the U.S. Bankruptcy
Court in Chicago on December 22, OMC announced that it would no longer
warranty any of its products. This left tens of thousands of consumers
without protection if their boats or engines failed and thousands of OMC
dealers with large inventories no longer backed by their manufacturers."

http://my.boatus.com/consumer/OMCBankruptcy.asp

BTW, how does this concern you? You don't own anything upon which to mount an outboard of any
variety

Wrong again, Chuckster. I think all readers should trek on up to Seattle
and see for themselves what an incompetent and unscrupulous schlort your
really are.

--
Skipper

Gene Kearns wrote:

Skipper penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Either cite, or post the ENTIRE article.

Why should she, the point was made. And a very good point it was.

Because any honest poster with more than a 3rd grade education knows
that is the proper thing to do.

The ENTIRE article? Not always needed, Gene. Perhaps the title of this
thread should have been 'Clarity of Purpose'. That way, we could better
focus on the major point of this thread, responsible reporting. K warned
NG readers about Ficht technology (and in depth and detail) over a year
BEFORE the schidt hit the fan and the Ficht failure became common
knowledge. During this same time, Grannis was spruiking Ficht while
insulting NG contributors. Well, lo and behold, turns out K was right
and Grannis wrong. Tens of thousands of Ficht customers were left high
and dry.

So, what did we learn from that episode? We learned that a gal from
Aussieland could take on a recognized and respected technical guru and
be vindicated. We also learned not to trust the advice of gurus quite so
much in the future because they might well be wrong. We also learned
that Bill's pride and ego would not let him admit that he led many down
the primrose path.

Bill Grannis *is* a recognized and respected industry expert. Thousands
were hurt in the Ficht debacle. This NG should be used as a forum to
discuss such issues and warn folks of potential disasters. K did her
job. Grannis should at least tip his hat to the good job K did in
warning readers of the Ficht problem, she was the only one doing so. I
thing he'd be a bigger man for doing so.

--
Skipper

Skipper wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

In the late 1940s and early 1950s, my father was a "professional" boat
racer in New England and New York. By professional, I don't mean he made
a living at it. He didn't. But...he had factory sponsorship. He raced
outboard hydroplanes and "utility" runabouts. For some reason, the
engines he was supplied put out a lot more horses than the stock motors
many competitors bought from their dealers. I wonder why. :}

I raced hydros out west in the 50s. Never heard of your father. You got
any proof you can post that he competed in one of them minor East Coasts
circuits?

--
Skipper

Skipper do YOU have "any proof you can post" that shows YOU have
competed in hydro racing?

basskisser wrote:
Skipper wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

In the late 1940s and early 1950s, my father was a "professional" boat
racer in New England and New York. By professional, I don't mean he made
a living at it. He didn't. But...he had factory sponsorship. He raced
outboard hydroplanes and "utility" runabouts. For some reason, the
engines he was supplied put out a lot more horses than the stock motors
many competitors bought from their dealers. I wonder why. :}

I raced hydros out west in the 50s. Never heard of your father. You got
any proof you can post that he competed in one of them minor East Coasts
circuits?

--
Skipper

Skipper do YOU have "any proof you can post" that shows YOU have
competed in hydro racing?


Back in the 1950's, nearly all of us kids were "hydroplane" racers.
The Thunderboats were in their heydey in the 50's, as there were still
plenty of surplus WWII rotary aircraft engines available. I "raced
hydros" too. If you had a bicycle, you didn't dare appear on the street
without playing cards flapping in the spokes and trailing a "hydro"
cobbled together from a couple of scraps of wood and a few nails. We'd
race around the school playground or an empty parking lot, taking it
all so seriously and avoiding the temptation to "spaz out" by shouting
"Vroom, vroom, vrooom!" in the process. (Such sound effects would have
been considered very childish).

Harry Krause wrote:
basskisser wrote:

Skipper wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

In the late 1940s and early 1950s, my father was a "professional" boat
racer in New England and New York. By professional, I don't mean he
made
a living at it. He didn't. But...he had factory sponsorship. He raced
outboard hydroplanes and "utility" runabouts. For some reason, the
engines he was supplied put out a lot more horses than the stock motors
many competitors bought from their dealers. I wonder why. :}

I raced hydros out west in the 50s. Never heard of your father. You got
any proof you can post that he competed in one of them minor East Coasts
circuits?

--
Skipper


Skipper do YOU have "any proof you can post" that shows YOU have
competed in hydro racing?



Skipper apparently is a lot older than I thought. He ought to be
shopping for caskets, not boats.


Is Skipper in the same age bracket your dad would have been?

Skipper wrote:
wrote:

Actually, in light of the Ficht debacle and your actions in encouraging
folks to buy these troubled engines, indeed, I believe an apology is in
order. Thousands were hurt, Bill.

"Thousands were hurt?" Are you kidding?

"Shortly after filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the U.S. Bankruptcy
Court in Chicago on December 22, OMC announced that it would no longer
warranty any of its products. This left tens of thousands of consumers
without protection if their boats or engines failed and thousands of OMC
dealers with large inventories no longer backed by their manufacturers."

http://my.boatus.com/consumer/OMCBankruptcy.asp

BTW, how does this concern you? You don't own anything upon which to mount an outboard of any
variety

Wrong again, Chuckster. I think all readers should trek on up to Seattle
and see for themselves what an incompetent and unscrupulous schlort your
really are.

--
Skipper


You seriously expect Bill to apologize for the OMC bankruptcy? How
daffy.

I always welcome a visit from anybody coming to Seattle. A guy from
Derby, KS came up here severalyears ago and began singing my praises
very enthusiastiacally, in this forum, immediately thereafter. Derby's
a pretty small place and the odds are you probably know this guy. I
could repost the glowing accolades yet again- but that would be
immodest. Years later, the guy claimed that in reality he immediately
developed the impression I was a true POS. I asked him, "Were you lying
then, or are you lying now?" To be fair, I do think he insisted he was
lying "then." So, a self-confessed liar from your same town has a low
opinion of me. Darn. You now I live and breathe to try to make a good
impression on posers and liars....(not).

But back to boats. What do you own upon which you could mount an
outboard? A workbench bracket situated above a water-filled garbage
can? When was the last time you were out on a boat (not as a charter
client or cruise ship passenger)? I don't expect any answers, really.
You come around here to stir up trouble, not discuss boats. You claim
superior expertise and disparage the "boating CV" of others here- but
the only story you have ever shared about your own boating experience
(with the gas cans and the 30-foot waves in the Sea of Cortez) is such
a lucky accident or obvious lie that it only makes you look even more
ridiculous.

My challenge to you, Dave Mann of Derby, Kansas, would be to put up or
shut up. Until or unless you are willing to share some evidence of
being a boater or even owning a boat that sits unused in your driveway
(did the sale on your 22-foot Bayliner from a few years ago fall
through?) you have very little license to sit in judgment on the
boating experiences of other participants in this group and certainly
no business "dissing" the entire group as you recently did with your
"boating CV" remark.