wrote:

You seriously expect Bill to apologize for the OMC bankruptcy? How
daffy.

Nice spin asshole. No, I expect him to admit his position endorsing
Ficht technology was wrong and that K was right all along. The OMC
bankruptcy brought on buy Ficht failures proved the respective
positions.

The only story you have ever shared about your own boating experience
(with the gas cans and the 30-foot waves in the Sea of Cortez) is such
a lucky accident or obvious lie that it only makes you look even more
ridiculous.

Is that so?

--
Skipper

Skipper wrote:

Is that so?


Yup.


If you know so darn much about boats, Dave, you ought to know the make,
model, LOA, etc of the boat you own. You ought to know where and when
you use it. You should be able to discuss boating related issues
without starting a flame war or cut 'n pasting something from the Ku
Klux Klan website. But all we hear from you is negative remarks about
nearly everybody else in the group, and not a scintilla of evidence
that you have even been aboard a boat since you reported your Bayliner
runabout sold a few years back. You contribute nothing to the group
except stirring up discord. Even your childish "nautical jeopardy" crap
has taken a sick and perverse turn to become a vehicle for personal
attack.

Harry Krause wrote:
Skipper wrote:
wrote:

You seriously expect Bill to apologize for the OMC bankruptcy? How
daffy.

Nice spin asshole.


Speaking of spin, weren't you bragging the other day about spinning out
of here for a "seven-week cruise"? What happened? You going back to the
slam to finish the rest of your term?

Harry, it's not "the slam", it's the mental hospital...

Harry Krause wrote:

Speaking of spin, weren't you bragging the other day about spinning out
of here for a "seven-week cruise"? What happened? You going back to the
slam to finish the rest of your term?

Harry, it's not "the slam", it's the mental hospital...

Maybe he's going to a Klan Konklave

Or perhaps:

http://tinyurl.com/22qec

--
Skipper

Gene Kearns wrote:

Skipper penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

The ENTIRE article? Not always needed, Gene. Perhaps the title of this
thread should have been 'Clarity of Purpose'.

Exactly my point.

Good.

I don't need nor do I wish to be told what to believe.

Based on some of your "contributions" and continued spamming, I'm not
sure that's true.

That way, we could better focus on the major point of this thread,
responsible reporting. K warned NG readers about Ficht technology
(in depth and detail) over a year BEFORE the schidt hit the fan and
the Ficht failure became common knowledge.

Skipper, if you would EVER read for content, I have already debunked
this myth...

K's warnings were not myth but fact.

During this same time, Grannis was spruiking Ficht while
insulting NG contributors. Well, lo and behold, turns out K was right
and Grannis wrong. Tens of thousands of Ficht customers were left high
and dry.

I really have trouble understanding a midwesterner from the USA using
the term "spruiking," unless, of course, he is letting someone else
think for him. My position on Evinrude's poor business ethics has
already been voiced, without any citation, since it is my opinion.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with my factual statement above, of
course.


So, what did we learn from that episode? We learned that a gal from
Aussieland could take on a recognized and respected technical guru and
be vindicated. We also learned not to trust the advice of gurus quite so
much in the future because they might well be wrong. We also learned
that Bill's pride and ego would not let him admit that he led many down
the primrose path.

This is a textbook example of how one or more incorrect premisses
yields a flawed and incorrect result. K, to this day, still doesn't
understand the true reason that the Ficht engine failed.

What a load of horse pucky.

--
Skipper

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
This is a textbook example of how one or more incorrect premisses
yields a flawed and incorrect result. K, to this day, still doesn't
understand the true reason that the Ficht engine failed. Apparently,
you don't either, but I'm sure that won't end the mutual admiration
society between Derby and Darby.

What is the true reason Ficht failed? I don't claim to know, although
some sort of sooting was mentioned back at the time. But there was a lot
of spin going on at the time so I don't know whether to believe it was
sooting or prolonged operation at high load low rpm or both or something
else entirely. Perhaps it was just poor purchasing decisions for
components.

Or maybe Ficht was Fine, and the company was grossly mismanaged.

del

"M" wrote in message
oups.com...
yes I found that interesting (and hard to beleive) too

But if you look at the total cost for the boat and motor the merc was
the most expensive..

Matt

P.S. Take in mind that one of the other posters was right that it was a
FICHT not Etec.

I was referring to the recent "shootout"
http://bassandwalleyeboats.com/output.cfm?id=1059733

..."Finally, there's price. Everyone knows that no one pays list. However,
it's usually where the bargaining starts, unlike when dealing for a car
or truck. In this arena, Merc's $16,664 list price is a bargain, even
when it only includes the Torque Master lower unit and 1.75:1 ratio. To
get an engine equipped like our test unit (with 1.62:1 ratio Sport Master
gearcase), you'll have to shell out another $1286, for a total of
$17,950. The Evinrude lists at $20,421, but keep in mind that BRP puts
out an intentionally high list price to give their dealers more wiggle
room when bargaining. Yamaha lists the suggested retail for its VMax 225
HPDI as $16,720, which is the best price of the three, considering how it's
equipped. My guess is that any of these engines would be available from
most dealers for somewhere between $16,000~$17,500."

The web version says nothing about total package. But since the boats
were identical...

you are right ...

but i was referring to this one:

http://www.bassandwalleyeboats.com/output.cfm?id=943489

For many outboarders, cost is a major factor. Based on suggested
retail, Mercury wins in this respect as well, with a list price of
$15,860. That's almost $2000 less than Yamaha's $17,620 sticker,
and nearly $3000 less than Evinrude's $18,531 price tag. What's
important to know is that Merc's dealer margins are significantly
smaller than Yamaha's or Evinrude's - meaning, there's less
room for haggling. Hence, your actual cost likely will be much closer
than list prices suggest.

Base Price (w/ Mercury 200 EFI): $36,450
Price As Tested
(Evinrude 250): $44,982
(Merc 250XS OptiMax): $48,475
(Yamaha 250 HPDI VMax): $44,792

There must be a typo as it doesnt make sense..

Matt

wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

basskisser wrote:

Skipper wrote:

basskisser wrote:


K. Smith wrote:

Paste from an "independent" magazine test.
Not surprisingly given its strong on-water performance, the Mercury
250XS pulled the most horsepower (252 hp at 5200 rpm). Next was the
Yamaha (246 hp at 5600 rpm). Evinrude brought up the rear (239 hp at
5600 rpm).
In terms of torque, the Yamaha 250 HPDI VMax edged Mercury with 268
lb.-ft. at 3800 rpm, vs. the Merc's 267 lb.-ft. at 4400 rpm.
Evinrude came in a distant third, with 250 lb.-ft. at 4000 rpm.
end paste;
Gee those pesky "independent" tests, the dealers must be making up the
excuses as we type:-) look at the lack of E-Tec torque!!! Woohoo this
before your season even starts!!!!
Yes yes I know it's all technically legal, but be aware when the HP
numbers get big so does that 10% allowance. I assume E-Tec charge for a
full 250HP??? Oops silly me now I remember, that's right they're MORE
expensive than the others.

Either cite, or post the ENTIRE article.

Why should she, the point was made. And a very good point it was.

--
Skipper

Without article, or cite it was simply an opinion by someone who
doesn't have the technical training needed to intelligently offer any
facts above what she's allegedly snipped from an alleged article.



There's no evidence extant that Ms. Smith has any valid technical
training whatsoever.


There a cool new web site just for this sort of situation. It's called
google.com. Might want to look into it. I plugged in "Not surprisingly
given its strong on-water performance" and what do you know...

http://www.bassandwalleyeboats.com/output.cfm?id=943489

-phish


Well done phish & thanks for that.

Of course like you I suspect "some" are not as stupid as they pretend,
is it even possible for "some"??? Of course some are more stupid than
they lie:-)

It's part of they object to my on topic boating post because it doesn't
follow the corporate marketing line.

The problem I have is that the dealers in E-Tec have started a full on
Ficht replay of BS advertising, so when there is non Company material I
stumble across I'll share it.

Of course the dealers will be running their stuff unchallenged as they wish.



K

Harry Krause wrote:

As I posted previously, there is NO evidence whatsoever that Ms. Smith
has any valid technical training whatsoever, or ANY legitimate
credentials relating to any sort of marine engines. None, zip, zilch.

As previously posted by many, K was the first to wave the warning flag
over Ficht technology and she took on the industry spruikers detail by
detail. She was proven correct. I'd say that alone dictates the prudent
course would be to listen well to her E-Tec advisories.

--
Skipper