RayB wrote:
At my age if I can get 7 years out of anything I'm generally pretty
satisfied!! (So far the triple by-pass has lasted almost a year!)

Ray

Well done Ray!!! don't let the *******s get you down:-) Hope you are
fine as you should be.

Hope you come back here & tell me how wrong I was about E-Tec when the
worlds cars all use it in............... what another 20 years, keep up
the good work.

K



"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message
...

RayB wrote:

I hope you're tight. I recently ordered a new fishing boat and a 60 HP
E-Tec. Weight, trolling economy, stated emissions, etc., all played into
the decision as well as a 7-year warranty deal.

Ray

"M" wrote in message
egroups.com...

They're not maintenance free at all, the average owner if they wanted
to
buy (then fill:-)) a grease gun, do his/her own winterising, fuel
system
treatment etc has always been able to with any OB & never put their
warranty at risk (unless it's something they did or didn't do that

Now I am confused ... I thought its:

- 3 year NO maintenance and then you change plugs, drive oil and
impeller. Are you SURE they require the dealer to do that or warranty
is byebyes???

- Wasnt the motor pretty much self winterizing in your driveway? What
happened to that?



actually caused the failure) but these things; they still "demand" this
service be carried out yet they purport to put the warranty at risk if
their dealer doesn't carry out other nominated work. I have been told
if
a warranty requires a proprietary brand then they must provide it for
free?? is that correct??? These people have deception priors with ficht
which is not to be ignored.

IMO in the US if the manufacturer requires propietary products to be
used they have to supply them FREE. Thats US only



I have no real issue with a dealer needing to be there for the
commissioning of a new engine, to ensure the things you mention, indeed
to some extent the big diesel manufacturers require the same (at no
cost). What is an issue is that the dealer doesn't need to do "just"
that, they want the entire rigging.

Wouldnt be an issue for me as i wouldnt do it myself anyways .. for
some it could be an issue. I guess BRP wants to make sure all the
motors are setup properly so that they dont get bad press for motors
not running right due to setup errors.



Their advertising deceptively infers less dealer but in fact it seems
the E-Tecs need more dealer, much more & mandatory if you want a
warranty.

Do you have a source for that? I have their catalog and DVD and it
talks about no service for 3 years and self winterizing ... what
exactly needs to be done after 3 years?


The other issue which I'll address in another thread is their "special"
oil, again only their dealer can set it up but then you're stuck with
$25/gal oil which when coupled with dealer only oil system services
means the costs of oiling these things may well exceed the oil costs
for
a 4 stroke, yet they market on the basis of oil savings???

Actually I see that as a PLUS. You can run the ETec on Crap TCW3 oil
from the supermarket and it will be fine. IF you want to run less oil
you can have the motor programmed to run leaner on XD100 oil. So YOU
have the option.

With my optimax I must run Merc Liquid Gold.... Cost for oil Etec vs.
4 stroke will depend how much you run the motor ... under certain
situations you will save with the ETec. But since fuel is the main
cost IMO it hardly matters .


Matt



Ray,
Etec is unproven Tech. After 7 years it will fall apart. I am amazed how
the US companies can keep it working for 7 yrs, and then damn it all, on
the 8th year it will be worthless.

Such is life. ; )



--
Reggie

"That's my story and I am sticking to it."

M wrote:
They're not maintenance free at all, the average owner if they wanted to
buy (then fill:-)) a grease gun, do his/her own winterising, fuel system
treatment etc has always been able to with any OB & never put their
warranty at risk (unless it's something they did or didn't do that


Now I am confused ... I thought its:

- 3 year NO maintenance and then you change plugs, drive oil and
impeller. Are you SURE they require the dealer to do that or warranty
is byebyes???

No that's not my understanding, my understand is that it still "requires
maintenance" in the first 3 years, just not "dealer" mandated
maintenance. That means the owners are expected to grease, winterise &
fuel care/manage, check leg/gearcase etc. The warranty part seems to
relate to servicing the oil system??? They appear to be saying ONLY
their dealer can do that or your warranty is at risk???? "If" that's
correct & please note the "if" because till we read a warranty & an
owner's manual we can't be sure, but "if" that's correct then that's a
big no no & and given OMC dealers Ficht priors a potentially very
expensive no no.

They advertise an engine at a hugely inflated price to begin with,
thousands more than the opposition, but fail to mention you can't have a
warranty unless "their" dealer fits it to the boat???? You can't
actually buy the engine for that inflated price anyway because the OMC
dealer will gouge you some more, lots more!!! to fit it!!

You demand things of me all the time Matt which I don't mind & I do try
but this is something you can verify for the NG & "if" it's correct then
we need to start tying runaway to a post. I'll gather the firewood you
can bring the matches, What?? he "forgot" to mention this stuff???

Hmmm I can see yet another runaway incident from william even before the
design kicks in:-)


- Wasnt the motor pretty much self winterizing in your driveway? What
happened to that?

All engines are pretty much self winterising Matt, the glycol in a bag
systems are all easy enough for 4 strokes but many owners chose to pay a
dealer to do it the long way & none of the OBs being raw water cooled
(except one, which has a proper closed system:-)) & self draining when
upright need much anyway. However again most owners just have the dealer
do the fogging greasing gearcase checking etc but suddenly E-Tec
advertises that their engines don't need "service" for 3 yrs!11 then add
"by the dealer"??? Well that applies to all brands of new engines so
what's the big deal?? Most owners prefer not to risk screwing up &
voiding their warranty, any warranty any brand if you screw up & say
blow the bushes out of the steering pin they won't cover that under any
warranty again nor should they, so most just let a dealer any dealer or
marine shop do it & carry the risk of a screwup.


actually caused the failure) but these things; they still "demand" this
service be carried out yet they purport to put the warranty at risk if
their dealer doesn't carry out other nominated work. I have been told if
a warranty requires a proprietary brand then they must provide it for
free?? is that correct??? These people have deception priors with ficht
which is not to be ignored.


IMO in the US if the manufacturer requires propietary products to be
used they have to supply them FREE. Thats US only

Well "if" (NB Again, please note the "IF", we need to check this
thoroughly!!) E-Tec demand ONLY their dealer rig the engine to the boat
& "maybe" service the oil system & they specify service of it during the
warranty period doesn't that mean in the US they need to do it for free???

It's clear like Ficht the dealers are in bed with the supplier on this
to the extent they'll say or do most anything. Remember in this NG those
same Ficht dealers denied any special deals indeed they just lied &
abused me down about their margins, after OMC rolled over the US court
declared they were demanding 30% agg kickbacks to keep flogging them!!!



I have no real issue with a dealer needing to be there for the
commissioning of a new engine, to ensure the things you mention, indeed
to some extent the big diesel manufacturers require the same (at no
cost). What is an issue is that the dealer doesn't need to do "just"
that, they want the entire rigging.


Wouldnt be an issue for me as i wouldnt do it myself anyways .. for
some it could be an issue. I guess BRP wants to make sure all the
motors are setup properly so that they dont get bad press for motors
not running right due to setup errors.

That applies to all new motors & if a rigger screws up they pay, no
warranty covers screwups from others nor should it, but this is
different they "demand" only "their" dealer do it, i.e. you get ripped off



Their advertising deceptively infers less dealer but in fact it seems
the E-Tecs need more dealer, much more & mandatory if you want a warranty.


Do you have a source for that? I have their catalog and DVD and it
talks about no service for 3 years and self winterizing ... what
exactly needs to be done after 3 years?

As above there's "talk" they demand only their dealer services the oil
system??? Please let me say again I'm not saying this as a "fact" but
giving you a heads up that it "might" be right so check check check. I
have no proof & claim none, but if you were to "prove" this incorrect
I'd be grateful because then at least we'd know. Of course if you find
it's true then................... what say you about their advertising???



The other issue which I'll address in another thread is their "special"
oil, again only their dealer can set it up but then you're stuck with
$25/gal oil which when coupled with dealer only oil system services
means the costs of oiling these things may well exceed the oil costs for
a 4 stroke, yet they market on the basis of oil savings???


Actually I see that as a PLUS. You can run the ETec on Crap TCW3 oil
from the supermarket and it will be fine. IF you want to run less oil
you can have the motor programmed to run leaner on XD100 oil. So YOU
have the option.

Again it's no money saved their "special dealer only" oil sees to that
pricewise, but again it's the ONLY their dealer can do it & only their
dealer can supply the 7 herbs & spices................. at an OMC dealer
price???


With my optimax I must run Merc Liquid Gold.... Cost for oil Etec vs.
4 stroke will depend how much you run the motor ... under certain
situations you will save with the ETec. But since fuel is the main
cost IMO it hardly matters .

You decide to use Merc oil & that's OK however at any time you can
change your mind without affecting anything including any warranty you
have left,, but the E-Tecs once "their" dealer changes you over you're
well captive of the philistines.

K




Matt

K. Smith wrote:
M wrote:

- 3 year NO maintenance and then you change plugs, drive oil and
impeller. Are you SURE they require the dealer to do that or warranty
is byebyes???

No that's not my understanding, my understand is that it still "requires
maintenance" in the first 3 years, just not "dealer" mandated
maintenance. That means the owners are expected to grease, winterise &
fuel care/manage, check leg/gearcase etc. The warranty part seems to
relate to servicing the oil system??? They appear to be saying ONLY
their dealer can do that or your warranty is at risk???? "If" that's
correct & please note the "if" because till we read a warranty & an
owner's manual we can't be sure, but "if" that's correct then that's a
big no no & and given OMC dealers Ficht priors a potentially very
expensive no no.

Checking for leaks here and there should be something every boater does
before going out on the boat ... Some grease here and there isnt really
maintenance its like refilling the oil ... thats not a big deal ...

Lets wait until we see the real requirements.... I do see that the
ETec brochure is a little biased and one could say in parts misleading
but anybody who believes advertising claims, I feel sorry for...


They advertise an engine at a hugely inflated price to begin with,
thousands more than the opposition, but fail to mention you can't have a
warranty unless "their" dealer fits it to the boat???? You can't
actually buy the engine for that inflated price anyway because the OMC
dealer will gouge you some more, lots more!!! to fit it!!

The inflated price is their busines. If they can buy an engine for
$5000 and sell it for $15000 why not? .. if people buy its their
problem.



You demand things of me all the time Matt which I don't mind & I do try
but this is something you can verify for the NG & "if" it's correct then
we need to start tying runaway to a post. I'll gather the firewood you
can bring the matches, What?? he "forgot" to mention this stuff???

You make many claims about those motors. Some of them I agree others I
dont. Some need data to back it up... If you make the claim YOU find
the data to back them up not me


- Wasnt the motor pretty much self winterizing in your driveway? What
happened to that?

All engines are pretty much self winterising Matt, the glycol in a bag
systems are all easy enough for 4 strokes but many owners chose to pay a
dealer to do it the long way & none of the OBs being raw water cooled
(except one, which has a proper closed system:-)) & self draining when
upright need much anyway. However again most owners just have the dealer
do the fogging greasing gearcase checking etc but suddenly E-Tec
advertises that their engines don't need "service" for 3 yrs!11 then add
"by the dealer"??? Well that applies to all brands of new engines so
what's the big deal?? Most owners prefer not to risk screwing up &
voiding their warranty, any warranty any brand if you screw up & say
blow the bushes out of the steering pin they won't cover that under any
warranty again nor should they, so most just let a dealer any dealer or
marine shop do it & carry the risk of a screwup.

My optimax is witnerized in 15 minutes but requires taking the fuel
filter off ... I beleifve the ETec works by pumping extra oil in the
powerhead and bearings ... but still a nice feature - nothing more.

IMO in the US if the manufacturer requires propietary products to be
used they have to supply them FREE. Thats US only

Well "if" (NB Again, please note the "IF", we need to check this
thoroughly!!) E-Tec demand ONLY their dealer rig the engine to the boat
& "maybe" service the oil system & they specify service of it during the
warranty period doesn't that mean in the US they need to do it for free???

The free only goes to parts and oils. IF they said you can only use
BRP sparkplugs, then they would be free.

But there must be loopholes because Mercury only lets you use Mercury
oil in the Optimax and its far from free



The other issue which I'll address in another thread is their "special"
oil, again only their dealer can set it up but then you're stuck with
$25/gal oil which when coupled with dealer only oil system services
means the costs of oiling these things may well exceed the oil costs for
a 4 stroke, yet they market on the basis of oil savings???


Actually I see that as a PLUS. You can run the ETec on Crap TCW3 oil
from the supermarket and it will be fine. IF you want to run less oil
you can have the motor programmed to run leaner on XD100 oil. So YOU
have the option.

Again it's no money saved their "special dealer only" oil sees to that
pricewise, but again it's the ONLY their dealer can do it & only their
dealer can supply the 7 herbs & spices................. at an OMC dealer
price???

IF the XD100 costs double of TCW3 oil and it uses half the amount then
no, no money saved. But thats not the point. The point is that you
dint have to worry about refilling oil for a few month of boating
instead of before every trip


With my optimax I must run Merc Liquid Gold.... Cost for oil Etec vs.
4 stroke will depend how much you run the motor ... under certain
situations you will save with the ETec. But since fuel is the main
cost IMO it hardly matters .

You decide to use Merc oil & that's OK however at any time you can
change your mind without affecting anything including any warranty you
have left,, but the E-Tecs once "their" dealer changes you over you're
well captive of the philistines.

Unfortunately not. Mercury states you can only Use Merc DFI oil. You
can but its not recommended, use Merc preium Plus oil...

Mercury does NOT let you use TCW3 oil

Matt