John, as you know, Chuck likes to generalize.


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 25 Aug 2003 15:24:46 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:

I think federalizing the security folks was a Democrat-pushed idea that
the
administration caved under. Why? Heat of the moment, decisions based on
urgency
and pressure rather than objective analysis. The Dems love the idea of
thousands
of new AFGE members, and a bigger government.

Bull****.

Don't be so hard on John H.

Millions of people sincerely believe that every good idea ever spawned
originated in the Republican party, and every lousy idea
originated with the Demomcrats. Should they have any doubt, they can tune in to
thier favorite radio station to be assured that their belief is well founded.

This even applies to glaring missteps made by the President. "He only went
along because of all the pressure from the (minority party) in Congress!"

To be completely fair, there are a lot of Democrats holding the oppopsite
perspective.

Could you say, instead of 'a lot', that the number would be in the millions. You
seem to relish taking shots at those (Republicans) who listen to the radio. Do
Democrats not listen to the radio? Have you ever listened to the radio?

Here is a quote you can print and paste on the wall:

"If you allow someone like Saddam Hussein to get nuclear weapons, ballistic
missiles, chemical weapons, biological weapons, how many people is he going to
kill with such weapons? He's already demonstrated a willingness to use these
weapons. He poison-gassed his own people. He used poison gas and other weapons
of mass destruction against his neighbors. This man has no compunction about
killing lots and lots of people." Dec. 16, 1998

Who said it?

Who, also in 1998, said that if Saddam Hussein was not stopped he would "rebuild
an arsenal of devastating destruction. And some day, some way, I guarantee you
he'll use the arsenal."

Now, have a great day!

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:19:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .


No response to the rest of my post? You're too easy on me.

Exactly, the airlines controlled them and there were no standards.

Thank you.

John

The remainder didn't merit much response. As 9/11 proved, it's absurd to
theorize about what objects could be used as weapons. Therefore, it
accomplishes nothing to discuss nailclippers and who should or should not
have them. A terrorist could easily use his shirt to garrot someone and then
break their neck.

If you'd like to read something constructive, go he
http://www.secure-skies.org/

In other words, you couldn't refute the arguments.

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:53:12 GMT, "Jim" wrote:

John, as you know, Chuck likes to generalize.


Not our Chuckie, surely!

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

I am wondering if it was the terrorist or the Seattle police who caused the
blackout in the NE. Coincidence?


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:53:12 GMT, "Jim"
wrote:

John, as you know, Chuck likes to generalize.


Not our Chuckie, surely!

John
On the 'Poco Loco' out of Deale, MD

I am wondering if it was the terrorist or the Seattle police who caused the
blackout in the NE. Coincidence?

Talk about a power shortage.........

Your parody deviates from the original remark in an important aspect. The
original question was whether a terrorist could have caused the blackout, with
an immediately stated conclusion that the arrest of two terrorists atempting to
fly to NYC from Seattle the previous day was probably coincidental.

At the risk of pointing out the painfully obvious, you posed the question with
an alternate of choice as suggested answers. Not the same thing. It is only
marginally more reasonable to conclude that a terrorist caused the power
shortage than
to conclude it was caused by the Seattle Police. The Seattle Police have a ZERO
percent involvement with the outage, so terrorists have a zero, plus a couple,
percent probability of being the cause.

Unlike the terrorists, the Seattle Police have *not* claimed responsibility for
the blackout.

Gould,
I did not read that the two terrorist who were arrested in Seattle claimed
to have caused the blackout. Coincidence? Probably, but maybe not.


"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I am wondering if it was the terrorist or the Seattle police who caused
the
blackout in the NE. Coincidence?

Talk about a power shortage.........

Your parody deviates from the original remark in an important aspect. The
original question was whether a terrorist could have caused the blackout,
with
an immediately stated conclusion that the arrest of two terrorists
atempting to
fly to NYC from Seattle the previous day was probably coincidental.

At the risk of pointing out the painfully obvious, you posed the question
with
an alternate of choice as suggested answers. Not the same thing. It is
only
marginally more reasonable to conclude that a terrorist caused the power
shortage than
to conclude it was caused by the Seattle Police. The Seattle Police have a
ZERO
percent involvement with the outage, so terrorists have a zero, plus a
couple,
percent probability of being the cause.

Unlike the terrorists, the Seattle Police have *not* claimed
responsibility for
the blackout.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:19:11 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .


No response to the rest of my post? You're too easy on me.

Exactly, the airlines controlled them and there were no standards.

Thank you.

John

The remainder didn't merit much response. As 9/11 proved, it's absurd to
theorize about what objects could be used as weapons. Therefore, it
accomplishes nothing to discuss nailclippers and who should or should not
have them. A terrorist could easily use his shirt to garrot someone and
then
break their neck.

If you'd like to read something constructive, go he
http://www.secure-skies.org/


In other words, you couldn't refute the arguments.

You could read it that way. But the reality is twofold: First of all, your
talking about a random sampling of passengers. A certain portion is like my
ex-wife and thinks violence for any purpose is wrong. Giving them a weapon
of any kind would be pointless. They'd die like sheep, and happily. Another
portion would be like the woman in the movie "Airplane" who panics, and
everyone in the plane lines up to slap her around. The remaining portion
MIGHT contain a few who'd go into warrior mode, and they'd have a good
chance of success even if they used just their hands. (I'm partial to
ripping the lunch tray off and using the twisted metal brackets as weapons).

The other half: I really don't have time to respond to everything,
especially when you already know all the answers.

"Gould 0738" wrote in message
...
I am wondering if it was the terrorist or the Seattle police who caused
the
blackout in the NE. Coincidence?

Talk about a power shortage.........

Your parody deviates from the original remark in an important aspect. The
original question was whether a terrorist could have caused the blackout,
with
an immediately stated conclusion that the arrest of two terrorists
atempting to
fly to NYC from Seattle the previous day was probably coincidental.


Chuck, it was either you or Noah who once told me that I was talking to a
dial tone, perhaps as I was trying to get Dave Hall to wake up. You may be
talking to a dial tone now. Some of the people here can't see past the
right/left wing labels and read the words you've written. It was plainly
obvious that your original comment was just an interesting question posed as
food for thought. If "the authorities" explored every idea this way, perhaps
they'd be a step ahead of terrorists more often.

Matter of fact, some of the authorities *do* think this way. (Get a load of
the lawyer's comment in the last paragraph. He's a candidate for a pie in
the face, at the very least). :

The New York Times
August 24, 2003
Canada Links Arrest of 19 to Possible Terrorism Ties
By CLIFFORD KRAUSS

TORONTO, Aug. 23 — A document filed at a detention hearing this week for 19
students and other immigrants from Pakistan detained by Canadian security
officials for possible ties to terrorism cited a "pattern of fraudulent
document use to obtain or maintain immigrant status" by the men, ages 18 to
33.

The men were detained on Aug. 14 after an investigation found that one of
them was taking flying lessons at a school near an Ontario nuclear power
plant.

Officials would disclose little about the investigation, but the four-page
document sketched a picture of a mysterious group of men living in
apartments with only computers and mattresses. The men appeared interested
in explosives and in the Pickering Nuclear Generating Station outside
Toronto, according to the document.

There had been unexplained fires in at least two of the men's apartments,
and in police monitoring, two of the men had been seen walking outside the
gates of the Pickering plant at 4:15 a.m. on a day in April 2002. The men
said they wanted to take a walk on a beach.

One man was training to fly at a school whose flight paths cross over the
Pickering plant, the document said. It said the men were in contact with
unidentified sources who "have access to nuclear gauges" that contain small
amounts of the isotope cesium 137, which can be used for making crude
nuclear explosives.

"Based upon the structure of this group, their associations and connected
events, there is a reasonable suspicion that these persons pose a threat to
national security," the document said.

There seems little likelihood that the group was anywhere near to carrying
out an attack. Government spokesmen played down the threat to security.

But the court document said a man who had lived with one suspect had worked
for a charity group named Global Relief Foundation, which the United Nations
has linked to supporters of Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups.

Some men are being held on immigration violations and others without
charges. Under new antiterrorism laws, landed immigrants and foreign
citizens can be detained several days on suspicion of threatening national
security. A closed detention hearing is expected next week.

An investigation into at least some of the men by the Royal Canadian Mounted
Police and other security forces has apparently been going on for more than
a year. A police hot line received the first tips about the group shortly
after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

A Canadian immigration officer in Mexico City became suspicious in February
of an application by one of the men for permanent residency to attend an
Ottawa business college. The man had no apparent source of income, but
showed a bank balance of $40,000.

The school turned out to be a fraudulent operation. Investigators found that
31 Pakistanis had used the school to enter Canada.

Mohammed Syed, a Toronto lawyer representing two suspects, said the police
action "smacks of racism because they happen to be from Pakistan and are
Muslim."

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search |
Corrections | Help | Back to Top

Gould,
I did not read that the two terrorist who were arrested in Seattle claimed
to have caused the blackout. Coincidence? Probably, but maybe not.

And you would not have, either. The term "terrorists" can refer to more than
just two people arrested in Seattle. By the way, I have a well founded theory
that it wasn't the Secret Service, either.

By the remote chance that you're not simply smart assing off and really did
miss the terrorists' claim to have caused the blackout, here is the substance:

*******************

Al Qaida claims responsibility for blackout



SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Monday, August 18, 2003
Al Qaida's Abu Hafs Brigades has claimed responsibility for the blackout last
week in the Northeast and Midwest United States. A communiqué by the Abu Hafs
Brigades made reference to Operation Quick Lightning in the Land of the Tyrant
of this Generation."

It was published as "the third communiqué by the "Brigades."

In the first, they accepted responsibility for the downing of an airplane in
Kenya. The second accepted responsibility for the Jakarta bombing of the
Marriott hotel on August 5, 2003.

The new communiqué says that in compliance with the orders of Osama bin Laden
to strike at the American economy, the Brigades struck two important
electricity supply targets on the East coast, according to the Middle East
Media Research Institute. The Brigades say that they cannot reveal how they did
it, because they will probably have to use the same method again soon. The
communiqué also claimed that the operation was meant as a present for the
Iraqi people.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Health insurance for the self-employed: Special offer

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
The following are excerpts from a report by the London-based Arabic daily
Al-Hayat about the communiqué: [1]

The Blackout was 'a Realization of Bin Laden's promise to offer the Iraqi
people a present'
"A communiqué attributed to Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for the power
blackout that happened in the U.S. last Thursday, saying that the brigades of
Abu Fahes Al Masri had hit two main power plants supplying the East of the
U.S., as well as major industrial cities in the U.S. and Canada, 'its ally in
the war against Islam (New York and Toronto) and their neighbors.'
"The communiqué assured that the operation 'was carried out on the orders of
Osama bin Laden to hit the pillars of the U.S. economy,' as 'a realization of
bin Laden's promise to offer the Iraqi people a present.'


'The Americans lived a black day they will never forget'
"The statement, which Al-Hayat obtained from the website of the International
Islamic Media Center, didn't specify the way the alleged sabotage was carried
out. The communiqué read: 'let the criminal Bush and his gang know that the
punishment is the result of the action, the soldiers of God cut the power on
these cities, they darkened the lives of the Americans as these criminals
blackened the lives of the Muslim people in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine.
The Americans lived a black day they will never forget. They lived a day of
terror and fear… a state of chaos and confusion where looting and pillaging
rampaged the cities, just like the capital of the caliphate Baghdad, and
Afghanistan and Palestine were. Let the American people take a sip from the
same glass.'

'The U.S. will not live in peace until our conditions are met'
"It added: 'we heard amazing statements made by the American and Canadian
enemies which have nuclear physics universities and space agencies, that
lightning hit and destroyed the two plants. And we are supposed to believe this
nonsense. If the blackout occurred in one or two cities, their lie would have
been credible. But the fact is that the blackout hit the entire East and part
of Canada.'
"The communiqué continued: 'one of the benefits of this strike is that the
U.S. will not live in peace until our conditions are met, such as releasing all
the detainees including Sheikh Omar Abdulrahman, and getting out of the land of
the Muslims, including Jerusalem and Kashmir.'

"The authors of the communiqué said that the strikes aimed at 'hitting the
major pillar of the U.S. economy (the Stock Exchange)… [and] the UN, which is
opposed to Islam, and is based in New York. It is a message to all the
investors that the U.S. is no longer a safe country for their money, knowing
that the U.S. economy greatly relies on the trust of the investor…'


'The gift of Sheikh Osama Bin Laden is on its way to the White House'
"The communiqué mentioned that some economists said the blackout in the U.S.
and Canada would cost the U.S. Treasury no less than ten billion U.S. dollars
and in order to 'break the hearts of U.S. officials, just know that the cost
paid by the Moujahideen to sabotage the power plants was a mere seven thousand
dollars. Die of sorrow!'
"The communiqué ended with: 'we tell the Muslims that this is not the awaited
strike, but it is called the war of skirmishes (to drain the enemy), and that
the American snakes are enormous and need to be consumed and weakened to be
destroyed. We tell the people of Afghanistan and Kashmir that the gift of
Sheikh Osama bin Laden is on its way to the White House; then the gift of Al
Aqsa, and do we know what is the gift of Al Aqsa, where and when? The answer is
what you are seeing!'

[1] Published in English on Dar Al-Hayat website, August 18, 2003,
http://english.daralhayat.com/arab_n...0818-14bdd659-
c0a8-01ed-0079-6e1c903b7552/story.html

Chuck, it was either you or Noah who once told me that I was talking to a
dial tone, perhaps as I was trying to get Dave Hall to wake up. You may be
talking to a dial tone now.

Naw, Cole is just po'd because a third party proved he was full of horse pucky
(when he declared that people who didn't realize the Secret Service was
providing security for presidential candidates at this stage in the process
were "stupid.")
There are some people in the world who are so personally insecure they think
they are subject to being shot, drawn, and quartered for ever being wrong.
Let's hope
Wm Cole isn't in that unfortunate category.
Success is being right more than 50% of the time, not 100. :-)