Ok, I wasn't going to tell this story but now
I'm looking for ideas so I guess I'll tell the story too.

There is a quesion at the bottom about ECSROW or other ideas...for those
that want to skip the story.



I haven't been frequenting here (rec. boats) much in the past 12 months or
so. But some of you may remember me. My family and I restored a 1957 Chris
Craft and in that process...and the two boats I had before that...I asked
many questions here and got a bunch of good answers.

So anyway, we finally got the boat done and in the water in 2004. We used
her in 2004 and in 2005. But we suspected that the engine was no up to 100%.
Considering that we've put so much work into restoring the boat, last fall
we decided that we might as well do the last major thing that we could think
of, which was having the engine rebuilt.

We considered repowering but ruled it out. Mostly because we wanted to keep
the original (or at least the same model) engine in such a classic boat.
Also, repowering would probably mean using a different transmission. The
transmission we use now connectd directly to the engine (they share the same
oil). It's a velvet drive -- no clunking in & out of gear.

Anyway, we considered a few places to have the work done. One shop was about
300 miles away. We had seen them at a classic boat show. They do great work.
But they did more things that we needed and cost more. Another option was
buying from a place in Minesota. (We're in Mass).

But we decided to use a local guy. We met him, saw his shop, and talked out
the some details. He seemed very knowledgable and his shop seemed organized,
clean, and generally well run. He invited us to some by anytime to watch the
progress, ask questions, etc. So we brought the engine to him.

The first step was for him to tear it down and then give us an estimate of
the costs to rebuild it. (He has already given us a verbal ballpark of what
his guess would be $2000 to $3000) Well...it didn't work out that way. He
tore it apart and then told us it basically couldn't be rebuilt. We looked
at it and while we're not machinists we, especially my Dad, have worked
quite a bit on engines. We agreed that it looked in pretty bad shape.

So the machinist was going to look for another block, head, and exhaust
manifold for us. He had a line on some and asked for money to buy them. (So
far we had not paid him anything). We gave him over $2000 and got a receipt
saying exactly what he was to buy. X amout for a head, Y amount for a block,
Z amout for a manifold.

Then the guy calls a week or so later and says he traveled to check out the
ones he had in mind and they were not good enough. He would keep looking.
for others.

So all the above was from late December until early January. Then for the
rest of January and February we'ld call him every week or 10 days and the
story would always be something like: I've look at another one but it's not
good enough...but I've got a line on another one that I'll be seeing in a
few days. (Of course he's still got our money.)

About the beginning of March he calls me and says, "I've found an engine.
It's in great shape. It was used in an air compressor so it's never seen
salt water, only antifreeze." (These old Hercules Engines were used in all
sorts of thigns). But he adds, "Can you come up here tomorrow, there are
some things I want to go over with you."

So I go up there. Story is: He's moving to Louisianna. With all the
hurricane damage there is lots of work there and it sounds like some
governement agencies (or something) are going to help move him there, give
him incentives to work there, find work for him, etc.

OK, I don't blame a guy for taking an opportunity when it arrises.

He says he will still do the work, but he'll have to do it from Louisianna
and send us the engine. I ask, "When would you have it to us." Answer: May
30th. Hmmm....seems to me that with moving and starting a new business
where we could easily get put on the bottom of his To-Do list and not see an
engine all summer. That doesn't sound good.

I talk it over with my Dad (who is away on vacation) and we agree that we
just want the money back and we'll go elsewhere. We wanted to do business
locally, not with someone 2000 miles away.

When I tell the machinist this...guess what...he doesn't have the money.
Over time we find out that he hasn't paid rent on his shop since December.
Actually, the last time he paid rent is just around the time we gave him the
$2000+. ~ Talking to the guy we get him to admit that he did spend "most"
of the money on his rent. Arggggg.

Well, current situation is he has paid us a little of it and keeps promising
the rest. He did come up with money and paid his back rent (we've gotten to
know his land lord cause we're in the same situation together). He has
almost no assetts (he rents an apartment, the big machinist items in his
shop are leased, etc. We spoke with a lawyer and they said that other than
small claims court it probably is not worth taking other leagal action
considering the cost of the bills, that he has nothing, and that he's moving
in a few weeks. ~ Small claims would take 3 weeks or more likely 6 to set
a court date. He'll be gone by then.

So we're been stopping by every other day or so.


ANYWAY -- THE QUESION:

So that was all just to tell the story. I'm not really looking for advice on
that. Though comments are welcome.

What I'm wondering about is this: So we're thinking of buying a rebuilt
enigne from the guy in Minesota. And we want to protect our selves...not
just send $4000+ and hope we get an engine shipped to us.

I'm thinking that aside from spelling out all the details in writing, having
that signed, and asking for references we can call, that putting the money
in Escrow is the way to go.

So the quesions a

#1: Any other ideas on how to protect oneself in this type of transation?

#2: Anyone have reputable escrow companies they've done business with? Like
maybe is there an arm of Citi-Bank, American Express or a company that well
known/trusted that does escrow?

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

Just out of curiosity, have you looked around a little more? There
are Hercules engines all over the freakin' place - I can't believe you
can't find one closer to home.

We haven't decided 100% on the Minesota one. But if we find a used engine
then we'ld still most likely need or want to get it rebuilt.

This guy in Minesota has "a hundred" of varioius engines in his yard. And he
is specifically in the business of rebuilding them for boats. Not that the
rebuild itself is different. But he knows the manifolds, transmission, etc.
that go on the boat. ~ Basically it is an easy (though not cheap) option.
Supposedly we call him, 7 to 14 days later he shippes us a rebuilt engine.
All we have to do is put our generator, starter, and exhaust manifold on it.
Then install it.

In short, the Minesota guy solves both the "find an engine" problem and the
"get it rebuilt" in one stop.


Actually, the deal is that I had put a bunch of money into the boat when we
were restoring it. At this time I'm not up to paying for the engine, so this
is my dad's thing. And he's pretty turned off by the whole mess with this
other guy. He's frustrated and thinking it just isn't worth the hassel. So
we may just forget it for this year. At this point that's where we're at. If
by some mirical the guy does come through with the money, I think my Dad's
tune will change. And as the weather gets nicer it may also change his mind.
But the longer we go...if he *does* decide to pay for an engine we'll be
later and later in the spring. Which makes the "easyness" of the Minesota
guy look more and more appealing.

I'm trying to figure out the Ecrow and things so that if/when he does decide
to do it I can have some answers about how to make it a safe transation.

Ever since spring of 2002 each spring has been a LOT of work to get the boat
ready. Each year we say, "Maybe next year it'll be pretty much ready to go
and we can just use it." And yea, we know there is always a few weekends of
work. That's nothing to us. But each spring it's been HUGE projects. This
year we though it would "just" be taking the engine we had rebuilt over the
winder and dropping it in there. Maybe painting the bottom. Touching up the
varnish. Maybe 3 weekends work. ~

It's turned into worrying and hasseling about this rip-off guy daily...and
with no progress. I tend to put that in perspective and say, these thigns
happen. Lets not let *him* ruin our fun boating. But my dad tends to take
these things more...well harder. He's at the "ahh **** this stage"

Of course, the boat would set in the shop. It'll be fine. We might just need
a year off. I have penty of other things I could do. And he wouldn't mind
spending more time golfing.

So who knows.

Anyway, what did you ask again. One simply question gets you 500 words. Oh
well.

Thanks for the ideas on the escrow.

And if you come accross any Hurcules JXDs let me know.

gary

jabadoodle writes:

So that was all just to tell the story. I'm not really looking for
advice on that. Though comments are welcome.

Two things I've learned over the years:

1. Never, ever pay contractors or mechanics ahead of verified delivery. If
they can't float the finances, then they're almost certainly incompetent.
They are experts at weaseling out of disputes over their work; you are just
an unsuspecting novice.

2. If you get in a bad situation like yours, either hire a lawyer to write
nastygrams, or forget about it and get on with your life. Nobody likes to
get taken, but if it isn't worth hiring a lawyer, it isn't worth agonizing
over yourself.

3. Don't get upset when your toys break or otherwise disappoint you.
They're just toys, not your family or career or world peace or your eternal
soul.

4. I can't count.

Well, at least he had the decensy of telling you he was headed south
instead of taing the money and totally running.


Cal or E-mail Jasper engines, and see what they have to say.

http://www.jasperengines.com/company.htm

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message
.. .
jabadoodle writes:

So that was all just to tell the story. I'm not really looking for
advice on that. Though comments are welcome.

Two things I've learned over the years:

1. Never, ever pay contractors or mechanics ahead of verified delivery.
If
they can't float the finances, then they're almost certainly incompetent.
They are experts at weaseling out of disputes over their work; you are
just
an unsuspecting novice.


Excellent advice. We live in a farly small community and everything *seems*
to
have that small town feel. We've lived here (or at least my partents have)
for
50+ years. One really wants to trust the "local good old boy". But you're
advise makes sense. Lesson learned...I hope.

2. If you get in a bad situation like yours, either hire a lawyer to write
nastygrams, or forget about it and get on with your life. Nobody likes to
get taken, but if it isn't worth hiring a lawyer, it isn't worth agonizing
over yourself.

Another excellent point. Letting it bother you just compounds the problem.
I feel that way and my dad is somewhat more upset. But then again...it was
his money.

3. Don't get upset when your toys break or otherwise disappoint you.
They're just toys, not your family or career or world peace or your
eternal
soul.


Yep. Just the fact that I'm lucky enought to HAVE a boat, even if it has or
causes me problems sometimes, puts my in a category of great priviledge
that I try to appreciate. We are very lucky.


4. I can't count.

Oh. Yea.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Well, at least he had the decensy of telling you he was headed south
instead of taing the money and totally running.



Yep. I think he's basically a good guy and probably a great machinist. He
didn't
intend harm. We've found out that various things (like a divorce and lost
business
has happened to him). These may or may not be his fault to various degrees.
So,
as I said, he's probabaly a good guy just in a bad place.

jabadoodle wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Well, at least he had the decency of telling you he was headed south
instead of taking the money and totally running.



Yep. I think he's basically a good guy and probably a great machinist. He
didn't
intend harm. We've found out that various things (like a divorce and lost
business
has happened to him). These may or may not be his fault to various degrees.
So,
as I said, he's probabaly a good guy just in a bad place.


Been there before. Sometimes life can deal a very ugly hand thats out
of your control.

Now, on the bright side. IF he is trustworthy, (I'm being optomistic)
and he would like to prove himself. it's possible he could find you a
good engine from a wrecked craft in the Delta area.

Tim