"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:23:34 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:48:39 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:19:58 GMT, Don White
wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

What's the French Battle Cry?

WE SURRENDER!!!

http://tinyurl.com/ewtvo

At least in France, you can smoke a cigar with your coffee and
donuts
and non-smokers are put where they belong - in the rear of the
place
near the kitchen door. :)


Much more civilized here. We toss the smokers out on the street.
You see them all winter, pathetically huddling on the sidewalk in
front
of major federal buildings drawing on their precious cigarettes.
I've even seen patients out there dressed in the thin blue cotton
robes
and clutching their medical hardware.

I don't smoke cigarettes...

I am a civilized smoker - cigars - finest kind - Cuban cheroots...

There's a difference.

*Then again, you probably wear seatbelts...* :)

It's the law..to wear seatbelts up here!
Let's see now.....I abide by the law of the land by wearing
seatbelts..........
You smoke Cuban cigars...which I believe is still against the law
stateside???? mmmmmm!

Probably do not speed either. I believe in seatbelts, as I used to
race
cars and walked away from a couple of majestic crashes.

I don't believe in seatbelts and here's why.

Eleven years ago now, I was rear ended by a flat nosed GMC delivery
truck. He hit me so hard that my right shoulder was broken (the one
that was recently fixed), my right hip was fractured in place - all by
the seat belts and my left shoulder was dislocated. A fire started at
the rear of the car and I couldn't get out - I could smell the fire
and was conscious enough to try and get out but I couldn't move my
arms.

All I remember was somebody stopping and fortunately, much like me I
might add, had a bottle fire extinguisher, got the fire out and after
that I don't remember anything except for waking up in the UMASS ER.

If somebody hadn't been prepared for a real emergency, I would have
been a cripsy critter. I had to be cut out of the seatbelts I was
told later.

In my years as a volunteer Paramedic, I've seen really bad accidents
where no seat belts were worn and nary an injury except for bumps and
bruises. I've also seen as many with seat belts and nifty things like
torn aortas, various broken bones, split spleens, etc.

There is a big difference between a four/six point, tightly cinched
racing safety harness and a shoulder harness in a private car.

Don't get me started on air bags.


That may be your experience Tom but far more meaningful statistic show
otherwise. ;-)

To use or not to use seatbelts should be a voluntary, individual choice,
not
mandated by law.

Correctomundo - got it in one.

What makes it even more interesting is that here is CT, you can ride a
motorcycle without a helmet.

But you have to wear a seat belt in a 6,000 pound, diesel pickup.

How f****d up is that?



I hate wearing a helmet. Makes me look stupid.

RCE

"JohnH" wrote in message
...



Some laws are written to protect the insane, e.g. helmet laws for
motorcyclists. Without the law, some fools would actually ride without a
helmet!
--


Far fewer states require helmets for motorcyclists than those that require
seat belt use.

RCE

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JohnH" wrote in message
...



Some laws are written to protect the insane, e.g. helmet laws for
motorcyclists. Without the law, some fools would actually ride without a
helmet!
--


Far fewer states require helmets for motorcyclists than those that require
seat belt use.

RCE


Do you wear leather when you ride?

JohnH wrote:
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:23:34 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:48:39 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
...

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:19:58 GMT, Don White
wrote:



Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:


What's the French Battle Cry?

WE SURRENDER!!!

http://tinyurl.com/ewtvo

At least in France, you can smoke a cigar with your coffee and donuts
and non-smokers are put where they belong - in the rear of the place
near the kitchen door. :)


Much more civilized here. We toss the smokers out on the street.
You see them all winter, pathetically huddling on the sidewalk in
front
of major federal buildings drawing on their precious cigarettes.
I've even seen patients out there dressed in the thin blue cotton
robes
and clutching their medical hardware.

I don't smoke cigarettes...

I am a civilized smoker - cigars - finest kind - Cuban cheroots...

There's a difference.

*Then again, you probably wear seatbelts...* :)

It's the law..to wear seatbelts up here!
Let's see now.....I abide by the law of the land by wearing
seatbelts..........
You smoke Cuban cigars...which I believe is still against the law
stateside???? mmmmmm!

Probably do not speed either. I believe in seatbelts, as I used to race
cars and walked away from a couple of majestic crashes.

I don't believe in seatbelts and here's why.

Eleven years ago now, I was rear ended by a flat nosed GMC delivery
truck. He hit me so hard that my right shoulder was broken (the one
that was recently fixed), my right hip was fractured in place - all by
the seat belts and my left shoulder was dislocated. A fire started at
the rear of the car and I couldn't get out - I could smell the fire
and was conscious enough to try and get out but I couldn't move my
arms.

All I remember was somebody stopping and fortunately, much like me I
might add, had a bottle fire extinguisher, got the fire out and after
that I don't remember anything except for waking up in the UMASS ER.

If somebody hadn't been prepared for a real emergency, I would have
been a cripsy critter. I had to be cut out of the seatbelts I was
told later.

In my years as a volunteer Paramedic, I've seen really bad accidents
where no seat belts were worn and nary an injury except for bumps and
bruises. I've also seen as many with seat belts and nifty things like
torn aortas, various broken bones, split spleens, etc.

There is a big difference between a four/six point, tightly cinched
racing safety harness and a shoulder harness in a private car.

Don't get me started on air bags.


That may be your experience Tom but far more meaningful statistic show
otherwise. ;-)


To use or not to use seatbelts should be a voluntary, individual choice, not
mandated by law.

RCE



Some laws are written to protect the insane, e.g. helmet laws for
motorcyclists. Without the law, some fools would actually ride without a
helmet!
--
'Til next time,

John H

We've had a motorcycle helmet law since at least the mid 60's...when I
started to ride.

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
snip..


Neither would I, but can you honestly say that you would have been
better off with a ruptured spleen, a torn aorta or your pelvis crushed
such that the femoral arteries are occluded that you lose your legs.

We had an accident here in Woodstock when I was still on the Rescue
Squad - relatively high speed (45), head on a 90 degree curve - two
occupants of one car were thrown clear - injured seriously, but alive.
The driver of the other car, with her seatbelt on, deader than a
doornail.

The cause? Alcohol. I propose that life in prison for the drunk
driver would be acceptable for murdering the other occupant.


I'm not much of a gambler. I'd only want to bet when the odds were
overwhelming in my favour. I'll take the sure bet and buckle up.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:23:34 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:48:39 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:19:58 GMT, Don White
wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

What's the French Battle Cry?

WE SURRENDER!!!

http://tinyurl.com/ewtvo

At least in France, you can smoke a cigar with your coffee and
donuts
and non-smokers are put where they belong - in the rear of the
place
near the kitchen door. :)


Much more civilized here. We toss the smokers out on the street.
You see them all winter, pathetically huddling on the sidewalk in
front
of major federal buildings drawing on their precious cigarettes.
I've even seen patients out there dressed in the thin blue cotton
robes
and clutching their medical hardware.

I don't smoke cigarettes...

I am a civilized smoker - cigars - finest kind - Cuban cheroots...

There's a difference.

*Then again, you probably wear seatbelts...* :)

It's the law..to wear seatbelts up here!
Let's see now.....I abide by the law of the land by wearing
seatbelts..........
You smoke Cuban cigars...which I believe is still against the law
stateside???? mmmmmm!

Probably do not speed either. I believe in seatbelts, as I used to
race
cars and walked away from a couple of majestic crashes.

I don't believe in seatbelts and here's why.

Eleven years ago now, I was rear ended by a flat nosed GMC delivery
truck. He hit me so hard that my right shoulder was broken (the one
that was recently fixed), my right hip was fractured in place - all by
the seat belts and my left shoulder was dislocated. A fire started at
the rear of the car and I couldn't get out - I could smell the fire
and was conscious enough to try and get out but I couldn't move my
arms.

All I remember was somebody stopping and fortunately, much like me I
might add, had a bottle fire extinguisher, got the fire out and after
that I don't remember anything except for waking up in the UMASS ER.

If somebody hadn't been prepared for a real emergency, I would have
been a cripsy critter. I had to be cut out of the seatbelts I was
told later.

In my years as a volunteer Paramedic, I've seen really bad accidents
where no seat belts were worn and nary an injury except for bumps and
bruises. I've also seen as many with seat belts and nifty things like
torn aortas, various broken bones, split spleens, etc.

There is a big difference between a four/six point, tightly cinched
racing safety harness and a shoulder harness in a private car.

Don't get me started on air bags.


That may be your experience Tom but far more meaningful statistic show
otherwise. ;-)


To use or not to use seatbelts should be a voluntary, individual choice,
not
mandated by law.

RCE


Some laws are written to protect the insane, e.g. helmet laws for
motorcyclists. Without the law, some fools would actually ride without a
helmet!
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************
\
And also used to raise money. Buddies stopped at a diner in Oregon.
Realized they could not see the bikes from the window. Moved them 200' to
the other side of the building via the public street. TICKET as they did
not put on the helmets. Tell me that is not just to raise money for the
state?

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
link.net...

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:23:34 -0400, "RCE" wrote:


" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:48:39 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:19:58 GMT, Don White

wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

What's the French Battle Cry?

WE SURRENDER!!!

http://tinyurl.com/ewtvo

At least in France, you can smoke a cigar with your coffee and
donuts
and non-smokers are put where they belong - in the rear of the
place
near the kitchen door. :)


Much more civilized here. We toss the smokers out on the street.
You see them all winter, pathetically huddling on the sidewalk in
front
of major federal buildings drawing on their precious cigarettes.
I've even seen patients out there dressed in the thin blue cotton
robes
and clutching their medical hardware.

I don't smoke cigarettes...

I am a civilized smoker - cigars - finest kind - Cuban cheroots...

There's a difference.

*Then again, you probably wear seatbelts...* :)

It's the law..to wear seatbelts up here!
Let's see now.....I abide by the law of the land by wearing
seatbelts..........
You smoke Cuban cigars...which I believe is still against the law
stateside???? mmmmmm!

Probably do not speed either. I believe in seatbelts, as I used to
race
cars and walked away from a couple of majestic crashes.

I don't believe in seatbelts and here's why.

Eleven years ago now, I was rear ended by a flat nosed GMC delivery
truck. He hit me so hard that my right shoulder was broken (the one
that was recently fixed), my right hip was fractured in place - all by
the seat belts and my left shoulder was dislocated. A fire started at
the rear of the car and I couldn't get out - I could smell the fire
and was conscious enough to try and get out but I couldn't move my
arms.

All I remember was somebody stopping and fortunately, much like me I
might add, had a bottle fire extinguisher, got the fire out and after
that I don't remember anything except for waking up in the UMASS ER.

If somebody hadn't been prepared for a real emergency, I would have
been a cripsy critter. I had to be cut out of the seatbelts I was
told later.

In my years as a volunteer Paramedic, I've seen really bad accidents
where no seat belts were worn and nary an injury except for bumps and
bruises. I've also seen as many with seat belts and nifty things like
torn aortas, various broken bones, split spleens, etc.

There is a big difference between a four/six point, tightly cinched
racing safety harness and a shoulder harness in a private car.

Don't get me started on air bags.


That may be your experience Tom but far more meaningful statistic show
otherwise. ;-)


To use or not to use seatbelts should be a voluntary, individual choice,
not
mandated by law.

RCE


Some laws are written to protect the insane, e.g. helmet laws for
motorcyclists. Without the law, some fools would actually ride without a
helmet!
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************
\
And also used to raise money. Buddies stopped at a diner in Oregon.
Realized they could not see the bikes from the window. Moved them 200' to
the other side of the building via the public street. TICKET as they did
not put on the helmets. Tell me that is not just to raise money for the
state?


Another anecdotal piece of *evidence*.

Some folks were fishing from a boat and were drinking Pepsi. They stopped
at a waterfront cafe to have dinner docked the boat. They had 4 beers
during dinner and realized they could not see their boat while at the table.
One of them decided to move the boat closer and was stopped by a local
officer for a sobriety test after hitting the boat in front of him. He was
ticketed for DWI.

Tell me that was not just to raise money for the State..............;-)

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:18:16 -0400, " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT
comREMOVETHIS wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:55:08 -0400, " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT
comREMOVETHIS wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:48:39 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
...
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 14:19:58 GMT, Don White

wrote:


Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:

What's the French Battle Cry?

WE SURRENDER!!!

http://tinyurl.com/ewtvo

At least in France, you can smoke a cigar with your coffee and
donuts
and non-smokers are put where they belong - in the rear of the
place
near the kitchen door. :)


Much more civilized here. We toss the smokers out on the street.
You see them all winter, pathetically huddling on the sidewalk in
front
of major federal buildings drawing on their precious cigarettes.
I've even seen patients out there dressed in the thin blue cotton
robes
and clutching their medical hardware.

I don't smoke cigarettes...

I am a civilized smoker - cigars - finest kind - Cuban cheroots...

There's a difference.

*Then again, you probably wear seatbelts...* :)

It's the law..to wear seatbelts up here!
Let's see now.....I abide by the law of the land by wearing
seatbelts..........
You smoke Cuban cigars...which I believe is still against the law
stateside???? mmmmmm!

Probably do not speed either. I believe in seatbelts, as I used to
race
cars and walked away from a couple of majestic crashes.

I don't believe in seatbelts and here's why.

Eleven years ago now, I was rear ended by a flat nosed GMC delivery
truck. He hit me so hard that my right shoulder was broken (the one
that was recently fixed), my right hip was fractured in place - all by
the seat belts and my left shoulder was dislocated. A fire started at
the rear of the car and I couldn't get out - I could smell the fire
and was conscious enough to try and get out but I couldn't move my
arms.

All I remember was somebody stopping and fortunately, much like me I
might add, had a bottle fire extinguisher, got the fire out and after
that I don't remember anything except for waking up in the UMASS ER.

If somebody hadn't been prepared for a real emergency, I would have
been a cripsy critter. I had to be cut out of the seatbelts I was
told later.

In my years as a volunteer Paramedic, I've seen really bad accidents
where no seat belts were worn and nary an injury except for bumps and
bruises. I've also seen as many with seat belts and nifty things like
torn aortas, various broken bones, split spleens, etc.

There is a big difference between a four/six point, tightly cinched
racing safety harness and a shoulder harness in a private car.

Don't get me started on air bags.


That may be your experience Tom but far more meaningful statistic show
otherwise. ;-)

That's where you are wrong.

The reporting requirements for seat belt use in accidents is to ask
the occupants if they were wearing seat belts.

90% don't say no.

Also, most seat belt accidents are at or under 25 mph - that's a fact.

So if seat belt use it being over reported, the "stats" are bull****.

Show me. ;-)

That's just it - you can't. The nanny staters and insurance won't
release the total information - only the parts that say that seat
belts save lives.

When you control the information, you control the results.


So NHTSA, local/state police department and private agency reporting of
accident data is controled by insurance company's?




Seat belt laws are based on bull**** and skewed to high speed
incidents rather than what the true results are.


For every piece of data you post that shows that wearing seatbelts does not
save lives I will post 2.

You start. ;-)

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:12:45 -0400, " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT
comREMOVETHIS wrote:

Don't get me started on air bags.


That may be your experience Tom but far more meaningful statistic show
otherwise. ;-)

That's where you are wrong.

The reporting requirements for seat belt use in accidents is to ask
the occupants if they were wearing seat belts.

90% don't say no.

Also, most seat belt accidents are at or under 25 mph - that's a fact.

So if seat belt use it being over reported, the "stats" are bull****.

Show me. ;-)

That's just it - you can't. The nanny staters and insurance won't
release the total information - only the parts that say that seat
belts save lives.

When you control the information, you control the results.


So NHTSA, local/state police department and private agency reporting of
accident data is controled by insurance company's?

Seat belt laws are based on bull**** and skewed to high speed
incidents rather than what the true results are.

For every piece of data you post that shows that wearing seatbelts does
not
save lives I will post 2.

You start. ;-)

No thanks - I don't argue with True Believers.


As Perry Mason would say.............I rest my case. ;-)

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"JohnH" wrote in message
...



Some laws are written to protect the insane, e.g. helmet laws for
motorcyclists. Without the law, some fools would actually ride without a
helmet!
--


Far fewer states require helmets for motorcyclists than those that
require seat belt use.

RCE


Do you wear leather when you ride?


Only on the very few occasions that I ride when it's 60 degrees or colder.
Used to do more cold weather riding, but not much anymore.

In really hot weather, like in Florida, I often wear shorts and a tee-shirt.
And no helmet.

RCE