Colleges have been overrun by applications. Colleges that use be fairly
easy to get with a solid B and a 1100 on the SAT, have been able to pick and
chose. My state university is only accepting the top tier students, they
average jumped their criteria up considerable.

First-Year Students Percent Who
Middle 50% of

Submitted Scores
SAT Reasoning Verbal: 560 - 660
97%
SAT Reasoning Math: 570 - 670
97%

My son is going to Columbia, last year they accepted 8% of the applicants,
and you know only the top tier students even bothered to apply.

As you said, most kids would be better off learning a trade.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 17:22:14 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .

I think John cannot imagine a situation where people might have kids
when
they were doing OK financially, but ended up in a lousy position
afterward
for any of a number of embarrassingly obvious reasons.


If you'll check, you'll see that the focus of my posts has been on
illegal
immigration, and it's affect on the low end of the pay scale.

I've made no mention of the dot com guy that lost his $100,000 a year
job.
Totally different circumstances

John H

How about a less extreme example?


Maybe you should clarify your example. I referred to a person with no
education. How much did your uneducated person B make in his first job,
the
one he held while making the babies?

There is some income level below which YOU (and NOYB) will say they had no
business having kids. I don't know the specific number. You choose.


Well, your $5.50/hour example is a good starting point!
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

On Wed, 3 May 2006 13:36:16 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers"
wrote:

Colleges have been overrun by applications. Colleges that use be fairly
easy to get with a solid B and a 1100 on the SAT, have been able to pick and
chose. My state university is only accepting the top tier students, they
average jumped their criteria up considerable.

First-Year Students Percent Who
Middle 50% of

Submitted Scores
SAT Reasoning Verbal: 560 - 660
97%
SAT Reasoning Math: 570 - 670
97%

My son is going to Columbia, last year they accepted 8% of the applicants,
and you know only the top tier students even bothered to apply.

As you said, most kids would be better off learning a trade.




Most kids would be better off going to the local community college for two
years!

The ones on the bottom should be learning a trade.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

On Wed, 03 May 2006 17:07:26 +0000, Calif Bill wrote:


Which means nada in regards to this discussion. I needed laborers for a
clean up for a couple of hours. Only ones I can hire are day laborers
from in front of the lumber yard, or U-haul. Tried hiring though the
state, no one shows up. Maybe they claim the money and pay the taxes.
They are independent contractors, no witholding required. Same as hiring
a guy with a truck to haul trash away.

Uh, not the same, and, by the letter of the law, I doubt they would meet
the IRS' definition of "independent contractor". Hiring day laborers is
done under the table all the time, but it isn't strictly legit.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=99921,00.html

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 03 May 2006 17:22:14 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..

I think John cannot imagine a situation where people might have kids
when
they were doing OK financially, but ended up in a lousy position
afterward
for any of a number of embarrassingly obvious reasons.


If you'll check, you'll see that the focus of my posts has been on
illegal
immigration, and it's affect on the low end of the pay scale.

I've made no mention of the dot com guy that lost his $100,000 a year
job.
Totally different circumstances

John H

How about a less extreme example?


Maybe you should clarify your example. I referred to a person with no
education. How much did your uneducated person B make in his first job,
the
one he held while making the babies?

There is some income level below which YOU (and NOYB) will say they had no
business having kids. I don't know the specific number. You choose.


Well, your $5.50/hour example is a good starting point!


No it's not. You have a higher number in your head. I won't continue until
you pin down the real number, and 5.50 isn't it.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

thunder wrote:


I've been following this thread with some amusement. Has anyone here
thought about what would happen to this country without immigration, both
legal and illegal? This economy would collapse. As with most developed
countries, we depend on immigration for a growing economy. It's all
about
birthrates. The natives aren't breeding fast enough to sustain our
population, and, as our population ages, without immigration, this Ponzi
scheme will collapse. We can talk all we want about curbing illegal
immigration, but it ain't going to happen. We'll just make them legal.

There has to be a way for developed countries to prosper without
constantly growing the population. Otherwise...where will it all end?
What happens when there are 20 billion people on the planet?


The concept of endless growth relates to a certain chauvinism. Anyone who
watches a nature show and hears about how animals manage their territories,
will say "Sure. That makes sense. Don't want too many wolves competing for
the same food supply". But, humans are loathe to consider themselves animals
and observe the same rules.


What, killing outsiders that enroach on the pack's territory? I don't
think the undocumented would care for that. Only allowing the boss wolf
to breed? I wouldn't like that.

I don't think Wolves are an appropriate role model for people.

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

On Wed, 03 May 2006 13:49:00 +0000, Don White wrote:


There has to be a way for developed countries to prosper without
constantly growing the population. Otherwise...where will it all end? What
happens when there are 20 billion people on the planet?

Prospering is one thing, having a "growing" economy is another. People
can grow quite fat in a stable economy, but our leaders are judged on job
creation and other growth factors. More importantly, this country has
been living beyond it's means. Deficits have to be "grown" out of.
Social Security needs young blood to cover old farts like myself. We
either begin to breed like rabbits, or . . . It's immigration.

"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

thunder wrote:


I've been following this thread with some amusement. Has anyone here
thought about what would happen to this country without immigration,
both
legal and illegal? This economy would collapse. As with most developed
countries, we depend on immigration for a growing economy. It's all
about
birthrates. The natives aren't breeding fast enough to sustain our
population, and, as our population ages, without immigration, this Ponzi
scheme will collapse. We can talk all we want about curbing illegal
immigration, but it ain't going to happen. We'll just make them legal.

There has to be a way for developed countries to prosper without
constantly growing the population. Otherwise...where will it all end?
What happens when there are 20 billion people on the planet?


The concept of endless growth relates to a certain chauvinism. Anyone who
watches a nature show and hears about how animals manage their
territories, will say "Sure. That makes sense. Don't want too many wolves
competing for the same food supply". But, humans are loathe to consider
themselves animals and observe the same rules.
What, killing outsiders that enroach on the pack's territory? I don't
think the undocumented would care for that. Only allowing the boss wolf
to breed? I wouldn't like that.

I don't think Wolves are an appropriate role model for people.

Actually, wolves very seldom kill each other over territory.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 13:36:16 -0400, Reginald P. Smithers wrote:


As you said, most kids would be better off learning a trade.

Maybe, and consider a "hands on" job is less likely to be outsourced.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...71806/?cnn=yes

On Wed, 03 May 2006 18:03:52 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 03 May 2006 17:22:14 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

I think John cannot imagine a situation where people might have kids
when
they were doing OK financially, but ended up in a lousy position
afterward
for any of a number of embarrassingly obvious reasons.


If you'll check, you'll see that the focus of my posts has been on
illegal
immigration, and it's affect on the low end of the pay scale.

I've made no mention of the dot com guy that lost his $100,000 a year
job.
Totally different circumstances

John H

How about a less extreme example?


Maybe you should clarify your example. I referred to a person with no
education. How much did your uneducated person B make in his first job,
the
one he held while making the babies?

There is some income level below which YOU (and NOYB) will say they had no
business having kids. I don't know the specific number. You choose.


Well, your $5.50/hour example is a good starting point!


No it's not. You have a higher number in your head. I won't continue until
you pin down the real number, and 5.50 isn't it.


I have no number in my head. If a man and a woman can't provide for the
family at better than the level you call 'poverty', then they shouldn't be
making babies.

There's something wrong when the rationale goes, "Hey, let's make another
baby, and then we can get money from the government."
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************