"Ignatius Thistlewhite" wrote in message
.7...
You wrote:

I wasn't aware of the "make money with babies" syndrome.

Apparently, then, you have not studied the history of illegitimacy in the
African-American community from Reconstruction to the present. When you
do, please pay particular heed to the upward spike thereof which
corresponds precisely with massive expansion in welfare programs.


Amazing! 40+ years of reading news and endless history books, and I've never
heard of such a thing.

I hope thunder's reading this. He'll be amazed, too, at how much can be
learned from other scholars here in rec.boats.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 15:02:40 -0400, thunder wrote:

On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:28:52 -0400, JohnH wrote:


Again, you seem to see no difference in the illegal vs legal immigration.
That's why your argument is inane.

You seem to be the one hung up on a paper difference. Let me make it
simple for you. We need workers. If the illegals stopped coming, we
would simply increase the legal quotas. Cry all you want about illegal
immigration, Washington isn't listening. They know, we need the workers.

Yup. I'm the only one hung up on the paper difference. I believe the paper
is important. I've no problem with increasing immigration quotas. None. As
long as the immigrants get here legally, and that means we know who the
hell they are. You know, the way your ancestors did it.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

On Wed, 03 May 2006 19:17:57 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:28:52 -0400, JohnH wrote:


Again, you seem to see no difference in the illegal vs legal immigration.
That's why your argument is inane.

You seem to be the one hung up on a paper difference. Let me make it
simple for you. We need workers. If the illegals stopped coming, we
would simply increase the legal quotas. Cry all you want about illegal
immigration, Washington isn't listening. They know, we need the workers.


We just don't want them living too close by where we can see them.


At 15-20 per house, no. As a family? Hell yes. We've got both in our
neighborhood.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 03 May 2006 16:53:41 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 03 May 2006 12:43:40 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

I forgot to include an important piece of this puzzle. Person B's
spouse
works almost as many hours, so the kids are in day care a lot.
Unless
you
want your kids in a **** hole of a day care center, do you have any
idea
what it costs?

You mean to tell me that person B, (legal or illegal), has no
education,
is
working 90 hours/week, making $5.55 hr, is producing babies on top
of
it?

Am I supposed to feel sorry for stupidity?

Did person B work Monday, or was he out marching to get more
illegals
into
the country?
John H


Ah....the recorded response.


There are many people in this country who just have no understanding
of
or
compassion for the plight of the working poor, and don't want any.
It's
always been that way and it always will be. I used to have compassion
for
the stupidity of these arrogant, unfeeling nincompoops, but no more.

You know any people like that, Doug? I've known a few, but none are
among
my friends or people with whom I would socialize, even informally.





I think John cannot imagine a situation where people might have kids
when
they were doing OK financially, but ended up in a lousy position
afterward
for any of a number of embarrassingly obvious reasons.


If you'll check, you'll see that the focus of my posts has been on
illegal
immigration, and it's affect on the low end of the pay scale.

I've made no mention of the dot com guy that lost his $100,000 a year
job.
Totally different circumstances

John H

How about a less extreme example?


Maybe you should clarify your example. I referred to a person with no
education. How much did your uneducated person B make in his first job,
the
one he held while making the babies?

Seven or eight years ago there were many 'specials' on the news showing
folks who'd had a good job, lost it during the recession, and were about
to
lose their $400,000 home. I sure sympathized with them. That's a hell of a
blow. But, it's not the group of people I'm discussing. And, you haven't
seen any of those 'specials' in a long time.

It's my contention that illegal immigrants hurt the poor of this country
by
reducing the number of available jobs *and* keeping the wages deflated.

If an individual will mow your grass for $8 and hour, are you (or Harry)
going to say, "Oh no, that's not enough, I'm going to give you $15 an
hour!"
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Heck, we pay my son $20 each time he cuts the grass. It takes him about 1
hour, maybe longer if he bags it. He does not trim though....my wife does
that.

You are getting one hell of a deal if you have someone cutting your grass
for $8/hour. Professional service around here (they are in and out in 1/2
hour) is anywhere from $40 to $50 a pop.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

I think John cannot imagine a situation where people might have kids
when
they were doing OK financially, but ended up in a lousy position
afterward
for any of a number of embarrassingly obvious reasons.


If you'll check, you'll see that the focus of my posts has been on
illegal
immigration, and it's affect on the low end of the pay scale.

I've made no mention of the dot com guy that lost his $100,000 a year
job.
Totally different circumstances

John H

How about a less extreme example?


Maybe you should clarify your example. I referred to a person with no
education. How much did your uneducated person B make in his first job,
the
one he held while making the babies?

There is some income level below which YOU (and NOYB) will say they had no
business having kids. I don't know the specific number. You choose.


The answer is simple.........the income level at which they can barely
support themselves.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

Am I supposed to feel sorry for stupidity?

Did person B work Monday, or was he out marching to get more illegals
into
the country?
John H

Ah....the recorded response.

I wonder how many "boycotter's" went back to work the next day only to
find their job had either been taken by somebody else, or had closed,
or they were just plain fired???



I am looking forward to the day in the next 2-1/2 years when millions of
people in this country, legal immigrations, illegal immigrants, native
born citizens, and others, join together peacefully for a week of national
boycott, and shut the whole damned country down.

It may not come to pass, and probably won't, but it would be delightful.

Delightful? Delightful? Come on Harry, how could anyone take pleasure in
something like that?

I believe the boycott did more bad than good for their cause.

If Bush continues to drag his feet on this issue look for the Democrats to
take control of the House and Senate, and a Democrat elected POTUS.

Folks are fed up on both sides of the fence.

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
. ..

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

Am I supposed to feel sorry for stupidity?

Did person B work Monday, or was he out marching to get more illegals
into
the country?
John H

Ah....the recorded response.

I wonder how many "boycotter's" went back to work the next day only to
find their job had either been taken by somebody else, or had closed,
or they were just plain fired???



I am looking forward to the day in the next 2-1/2 years when millions of
people in this country, legal immigrations, illegal immigrants, native
born citizens, and others, join together peacefully for a week of
national boycott, and shut the whole damned country down.

It may not come to pass, and probably won't, but it would be delightful.

Delightful? Delightful? Come on Harry, how could anyone take pleasure in
something like that?

I believe the boycott did more bad than good for their cause.

If Bush continues to drag his feet on this issue look for the Democrats to
take control of the House and Senate, and a Democrat elected POTUS.

Folks are fed up on both sides of the fence.


I think people would be happy with ANY president who was an actual mature,
experienced manager with balls and brains. Doesn't matter which party.
Hopefully, the 54% will not be so careless with their vote next time.

On Wed, 3 May 2006 16:08:34 -0400, " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT
comREMOVETHIS wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 03 May 2006 16:53:41 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 03 May 2006 12:43:40 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

I forgot to include an important piece of this puzzle. Person B's
spouse
works almost as many hours, so the kids are in day care a lot.
Unless
you
want your kids in a **** hole of a day care center, do you have any
idea
what it costs?

You mean to tell me that person B, (legal or illegal), has no
education,
is
working 90 hours/week, making $5.55 hr, is producing babies on top
of
it?

Am I supposed to feel sorry for stupidity?

Did person B work Monday, or was he out marching to get more
illegals
into
the country?
John H


Ah....the recorded response.


There are many people in this country who just have no understanding
of
or
compassion for the plight of the working poor, and don't want any.
It's
always been that way and it always will be. I used to have compassion
for
the stupidity of these arrogant, unfeeling nincompoops, but no more.

You know any people like that, Doug? I've known a few, but none are
among
my friends or people with whom I would socialize, even informally.





I think John cannot imagine a situation where people might have kids
when
they were doing OK financially, but ended up in a lousy position
afterward
for any of a number of embarrassingly obvious reasons.


If you'll check, you'll see that the focus of my posts has been on
illegal
immigration, and it's affect on the low end of the pay scale.

I've made no mention of the dot com guy that lost his $100,000 a year
job.
Totally different circumstances

John H

How about a less extreme example?


Maybe you should clarify your example. I referred to a person with no
education. How much did your uneducated person B make in his first job,
the
one he held while making the babies?

Seven or eight years ago there were many 'specials' on the news showing
folks who'd had a good job, lost it during the recession, and were about
to
lose their $400,000 home. I sure sympathized with them. That's a hell of a
blow. But, it's not the group of people I'm discussing. And, you haven't
seen any of those 'specials' in a long time.

It's my contention that illegal immigrants hurt the poor of this country
by
reducing the number of available jobs *and* keeping the wages deflated.

If an individual will mow your grass for $8 and hour, are you (or Harry)
going to say, "Oh no, that's not enough, I'm going to give you $15 an
hour!"
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Heck, we pay my son $20 each time he cuts the grass. It takes him about 1
hour, maybe longer if he bags it. He does not trim though....my wife does
that.

You are getting one hell of a deal if you have someone cutting your grass
for $8/hour. Professional service around here (they are in and out in 1/2
hour) is anywhere from $40 to $50 a pop.

The amount wasn't the point.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

On Wed, 03 May 2006 21:04:03 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

Am I supposed to feel sorry for stupidity?

Did person B work Monday, or was he out marching to get more illegals
into
the country?
John H

Ah....the recorded response.

I wonder how many "boycotter's" went back to work the next day only to
find their job had either been taken by somebody else, or had closed,
or they were just plain fired???



I am looking forward to the day in the next 2-1/2 years when millions of
people in this country, legal immigrations, illegal immigrants, native
born citizens, and others, join together peacefully for a week of
national boycott, and shut the whole damned country down.

It may not come to pass, and probably won't, but it would be delightful.

Delightful? Delightful? Come on Harry, how could anyone take pleasure in
something like that?

I believe the boycott did more bad than good for their cause.

If Bush continues to drag his feet on this issue look for the Democrats to
take control of the House and Senate, and a Democrat elected POTUS.

Folks are fed up on both sides of the fence.


I think people would be happy with ANY president who was an actual mature,
experienced manager with balls and brains. Doesn't matter which party.
Hopefully, the 54% will not be so careless with their vote next time.


Hopefully they'll have a decent alternative.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
. ..

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

Am I supposed to feel sorry for stupidity?

Did person B work Monday, or was he out marching to get more illegals
into
the country?
John H

Ah....the recorded response.

I wonder how many "boycotter's" went back to work the next day only to
find their job had either been taken by somebody else, or had closed,
or they were just plain fired???



I am looking forward to the day in the next 2-1/2 years when millions of
people in this country, legal immigrations, illegal immigrants, native
born citizens, and others, join together peacefully for a week of
national boycott, and shut the whole damned country down.

It may not come to pass, and probably won't, but it would be delightful.

Delightful? Delightful? Come on Harry, how could anyone take pleasure
in something like that?

I believe the boycott did more bad than good for their cause.

If Bush continues to drag his feet on this issue look for the Democrats
to take control of the House and Senate, and a Democrat elected POTUS.

Folks are fed up on both sides of the fence.


I think people would be happy with ANY president who was an actual mature,
experienced manager with balls and brains. Doesn't matter which party.
Hopefully, the 54% will not be so careless with their vote next time.


If the Democrats would had actually put up a real contender they would have
won in '04.

Let's hope some decent candidates on both sides of the fence emerge for '08.