On Thu, 04 May 2006 17:42:53 -0400, JimH wrote:


Free insurance, free education.......just for illegally coming here and
paying no taxes. What a deal!

Yeah, right. It's that easy to evade the taxman? Unless they are
self-employed, where do you think all the illegal's withholding taxes end
up? Then there is the Social Security Ponzi scheme:

http://www.immigrationforum.org/Desk...aspx?tabid=724

And remember, illegals do not get to collect.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&type=business

Harry Krause wrote:
P. Fritz wrote:

"Ignatius Thistlewhite" wrote in message
. 8...
You wrote:


JimH wrote:
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated
the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.

If that were REALLY the case, then why aren't you as rich as Bill
Gates?

Isn't the liberal concept of "success" more rooted in saving the
snail
darter than something as tawdry as money?


No, it is................"from each according to his ability, to
each according to his need"



Idiot boy Fritz is back.


Our loss!

JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 04 May 2006 12:03:00 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 04 May 2006 11:27:19 -0400, Harry Krause

wrote:

Ignatius Thistlewhite wrote:
You wrote:

Ignatius Thistlewhite wrote:
You wrote:

JimH wrote:
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated
the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.
If that were REALLY the case, then why aren't you as rich as Bill
Gates?
Isn't the liberal concept of "success" more rooted in saving the
snail darter than something as tawdry as money?
No.

The liberal concept of success involves making sure there is room
for everyone on the train leading to it.
Such a statement contradicts Mr. Bass Kisser, since it is impossible
for everyone to be as rich as Bill Gates. Unless of course, your
goal is to bring Gates down to others' level rather than lifting
others up to his.
If this really is how you think, then you ought to check it for a
brain scan, because your synapses aren't firing properly.
Why not explain your position, rather than make personal attacks,
Harry?

Or, has your position already been run off the tracks?
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

It's a simple concept, and shouldn't need any explanation.

Let's put it in terms of something even simpler.

Let's say I have to see a doctor because of a symptom that is annoying
me.

He accommodates me the next day, at 9:30 AM.

Instead of going to work that morning, I show up at his office at 9:15
AM. I am shown in at 9:35, he checks me out, writes an Rx, and his front
office calls it in for me.

I pay my $10 co-pay, am on the road, and am at work at 10:30. I am not
docked a nickel, nor do I have to put in for any sort of medical leave.
On the way home, I pick up my Rx, pay the $10 co-pay and I am on my way.

Mrs. Immigrant from Mexico, who is trying to get aboard the train, so
far has only been able to wangle a job at Wal-Mart. Her employer,
despite the claims in its TV commercials, provides no health insurance.
She calls the doctor on her lunch period. Her doctor handles mostly
indigients and the office says she can't been seen for at least a week,
and at 1:30 in the afternoon. To get there, she'll have to take two
buses and leave at 8 AM. She has to take an entire day off from work,
and receives no pay for that day.

The doctor tells her she has a condition that will require her to take
two different prescriptions a day because she has a chronic condition.
The two meds will cost her $357 a month or, if she is really lucky, one
of them may be on a list an Rx manufacturer provides at little or no
cost for indigent patients. But she has to see her doctor every two
months for a renewal. Another day of pay lost.

She has one child at home. Day care. Fortunately, her husband also
works, though at low wages, and they struggle. And struggle. And every
time they seem to get a bit ahead, they get hit with something else.

These hard-working people need a little help getting on the train, so
they can travel on the road to success. If we don't slow down the train
a little and help them climb aboard, they may never make. They need a
better way to get health care, one that isn't so expensive or difficult
to get to or that costs her a day of wages.

Because if they don't make it, we don't make it.

We're not talking riches here. We're talking a reasonable life style,
with some sort of decent future for hard working people and their kids
and, in this case, a reasonable way to access medical care for the
family.

I sure as hell don't mind helping them. Money spent on them to help them
along is surely better than pouring money into the cesspool of Iraq.
We've got to make room on the train for these folks.

Harry, you make it sound as though your backgrounds were the same. Did
these immigrants (illegal, I assume), have a high school education,
followed by some college? Did they choose not to get educated, whereas
you
chose to get educated?


Did they choose to not get educated? No, they lived in a rural area in a
country where not much education was afforded. They were poor and had no
choice in the matter.

So if you are poor and in a rural areas of the country where "not much
education is afforded" you cannot go to college and succeed in life?





They're on the brink of financial disaster, yet they're making babies.
Wise
choice? What's different between these immigrants and your grandparents?

They're Catholic. Devoit.

Not much. My grandparents were dirt poor when they got here and took the
same sort of crap jobs.

But they went on to make the best of it.........right? Did they boycott?
Did they demand that the national language be changed to theirs? Did they
come here to take advantage of our system?





Just for the hell of it, how much money do you think the government
should
give them every year? --
'Til next time,


I think we should give them a medical insurance card that gets them in the
same queue as people with medical insurance, and allows them to get needed
prescriptions for no cost to them or a minimal co-pay, and provide
convenient adult education services to help them learn English, US skills,
and ways to get better job training and skills.


Free insurance, free education.......just for illegally coming here and
paying no taxes. What a deal!

Jim, if you think that every person in the U.S. has the same
opportunities to go to college, you're insane! Take rural Kentucky for
example. There was a documentary that I saw, this coal miner's kid
trying to succeed. Well, he was trying to finish high school, so that
he could get into a local junior college. Poor mother worked her butt
off as a motel maid, father disabled with black lung. Not much
insurance, bills piling up. The kid had to go to work to help support
his family. He worked at the local burger joint, while trying to stay
in school. He ended up having to quit, to make enough money to make
ends meet.
Do you think that kid had the same chance as a wealthy person's kid?

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 04 May 2006 12:03:00 -0400, Harry Krause

wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 04 May 2006 11:27:19 -0400, Harry Krause

wrote:

Ignatius Thistlewhite wrote:
You wrote:

Ignatius Thistlewhite wrote:
You wrote:

JimH wrote:
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how
motivated
the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.
If that were REALLY the case, then why aren't you as rich as
Bill
Gates?
Isn't the liberal concept of "success" more rooted in saving the
snail darter than something as tawdry as money?
No.

The liberal concept of success involves making sure there is room
for everyone on the train leading to it.
Such a statement contradicts Mr. Bass Kisser, since it is
impossible
for everyone to be as rich as Bill Gates. Unless of course, your
goal is to bring Gates down to others' level rather than lifting
others up to his.
If this really is how you think, then you ought to check it for a
brain scan, because your synapses aren't firing properly.
Why not explain your position, rather than make personal attacks,
Harry?

Or, has your position already been run off the tracks?
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

It's a simple concept, and shouldn't need any explanation.

Let's put it in terms of something even simpler.

Let's say I have to see a doctor because of a symptom that is
annoying
me.

He accommodates me the next day, at 9:30 AM.

Instead of going to work that morning, I show up at his office at
9:15
AM. I am shown in at 9:35, he checks me out, writes an Rx, and his
front
office calls it in for me.

I pay my $10 co-pay, am on the road, and am at work at 10:30. I am
not
docked a nickel, nor do I have to put in for any sort of medical
leave.
On the way home, I pick up my Rx, pay the $10 co-pay and I am on my
way.

Mrs. Immigrant from Mexico, who is trying to get aboard the train, so
far has only been able to wangle a job at Wal-Mart. Her employer,
despite the claims in its TV commercials, provides no health
insurance.
She calls the doctor on her lunch period. Her doctor handles mostly
indigients and the office says she can't been seen for at least a
week,
and at 1:30 in the afternoon. To get there, she'll have to take two
buses and leave at 8 AM. She has to take an entire day off from work,
and receives no pay for that day.

The doctor tells her she has a condition that will require her to
take
two different prescriptions a day because she has a chronic
condition.
The two meds will cost her $357 a month or, if she is really lucky,
one
of them may be on a list an Rx manufacturer provides at little or no
cost for indigent patients. But she has to see her doctor every two
months for a renewal. Another day of pay lost.

She has one child at home. Day care. Fortunately, her husband also
works, though at low wages, and they struggle. And struggle. And
every
time they seem to get a bit ahead, they get hit with something else.

These hard-working people need a little help getting on the train, so
they can travel on the road to success. If we don't slow down the
train
a little and help them climb aboard, they may never make. They need a
better way to get health care, one that isn't so expensive or
difficult
to get to or that costs her a day of wages.

Because if they don't make it, we don't make it.

We're not talking riches here. We're talking a reasonable life style,
with some sort of decent future for hard working people and their
kids
and, in this case, a reasonable way to access medical care for the
family.

I sure as hell don't mind helping them. Money spent on them to help
them
along is surely better than pouring money into the cesspool of Iraq.
We've got to make room on the train for these folks.

Harry, you make it sound as though your backgrounds were the same. Did
these immigrants (illegal, I assume), have a high school education,
followed by some college? Did they choose not to get educated, whereas
you
chose to get educated?


Did they choose to not get educated? No, they lived in a rural area in
a
country where not much education was afforded. They were poor and had
no
choice in the matter.

So if you are poor and in a rural areas of the country where "not much
education is afforded" you cannot go to college and succeed in life?





They're on the brink of financial disaster, yet they're making babies.
Wise
choice? What's different between these immigrants and your
grandparents?

They're Catholic. Devoit.

Not much. My grandparents were dirt poor when they got here and took
the
same sort of crap jobs.

But they went on to make the best of it.........right? Did they boycott?
Did they demand that the national language be changed to theirs? Did
they
come here to take advantage of our system?





Just for the hell of it, how much money do you think the government
should
give them every year? --
'Til next time,


I think we should give them a medical insurance card that gets them in
the
same queue as people with medical insurance, and allows them to get
needed
prescriptions for no cost to them or a minimal co-pay, and provide
convenient adult education services to help them learn English, US
skills,
and ways to get better job training and skills.


Free insurance, free education.......just for illegally coming here and
paying no taxes. What a deal!

Jim, if you think that every person in the U.S. has the same
opportunities to go to college, you're insane!


Remind me again where I said that.

Take rural Kentucky for
example. There was a documentary that I saw, this coal miner's kid
trying to succeed. Well, he was trying to finish high school, so that
he could get into a local junior college. Poor mother worked her butt
off as a motel maid, father disabled with black lung. Not much
insurance, bills piling up. The kid had to go to work to help support
his family. He worked at the local burger joint, while trying to stay
in school. He ended up having to quit, to make enough money to make
ends meet.
Do you think that kid had the same chance as a wealthy person's kid?



Nope and I never said or inferred that. But that kid can make it happen.
It all depends on whether or not he wants it enough. ;-)

Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
Bassy,
I like both dentist and chiropractors, in my opinion they do more to solve
medical problems than most Dr.'s. The medical profession is no longer
working to solve health issues, they are working to the insurance rules so
they can get paid.

Oh, I've got both a great dentist, and a great chiropractor. The
dentist doesn't try to fleece me as most do. He gives me the best bang
for my buck, as he calls it. Look at surveys about people's perceptions
of dentists. They reflect the same as what I'm saying about MOST
dentists. Same with a lot of chiropractors, they'll have you coming
back every week. Mine tells me "see you next time your sciatica acts
up."

JimH wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 04 May 2006 12:03:00 -0400, Harry Krause

wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 04 May 2006 11:27:19 -0400, Harry Krause

wrote:

Ignatius Thistlewhite wrote:
You wrote:

Ignatius Thistlewhite wrote:
You wrote:

JimH wrote:
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how
motivated
the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.
If that were REALLY the case, then why aren't you as rich as
Bill
Gates?
Isn't the liberal concept of "success" more rooted in saving the
snail darter than something as tawdry as money?
No.

The liberal concept of success involves making sure there is room
for everyone on the train leading to it.
Such a statement contradicts Mr. Bass Kisser, since it is
impossible
for everyone to be as rich as Bill Gates. Unless of course, your
goal is to bring Gates down to others' level rather than lifting
others up to his.
If this really is how you think, then you ought to check it for a
brain scan, because your synapses aren't firing properly.
Why not explain your position, rather than make personal attacks,
Harry?

Or, has your position already been run off the tracks?
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

It's a simple concept, and shouldn't need any explanation.

Let's put it in terms of something even simpler.

Let's say I have to see a doctor because of a symptom that is
annoying
me.

He accommodates me the next day, at 9:30 AM.

Instead of going to work that morning, I show up at his office at
9:15
AM. I am shown in at 9:35, he checks me out, writes an Rx, and his
front
office calls it in for me.

I pay my $10 co-pay, am on the road, and am at work at 10:30. I am
not
docked a nickel, nor do I have to put in for any sort of medical
leave.
On the way home, I pick up my Rx, pay the $10 co-pay and I am on my
way.

Mrs. Immigrant from Mexico, who is trying to get aboard the train, so
far has only been able to wangle a job at Wal-Mart. Her employer,
despite the claims in its TV commercials, provides no health
insurance.
She calls the doctor on her lunch period. Her doctor handles mostly
indigients and the office says she can't been seen for at least a
week,
and at 1:30 in the afternoon. To get there, she'll have to take two
buses and leave at 8 AM. She has to take an entire day off from work,
and receives no pay for that day.

The doctor tells her she has a condition that will require her to
take
two different prescriptions a day because she has a chronic
condition.
The two meds will cost her $357 a month or, if she is really lucky,
one
of them may be on a list an Rx manufacturer provides at little or no
cost for indigent patients. But she has to see her doctor every two
months for a renewal. Another day of pay lost.

She has one child at home. Day care. Fortunately, her husband also
works, though at low wages, and they struggle. And struggle. And
every
time they seem to get a bit ahead, they get hit with something else.

These hard-working people need a little help getting on the train, so
they can travel on the road to success. If we don't slow down the
train
a little and help them climb aboard, they may never make. They need a
better way to get health care, one that isn't so expensive or
difficult
to get to or that costs her a day of wages.

Because if they don't make it, we don't make it.

We're not talking riches here. We're talking a reasonable life style,
with some sort of decent future for hard working people and their
kids
and, in this case, a reasonable way to access medical care for the
family.

I sure as hell don't mind helping them. Money spent on them to help
them
along is surely better than pouring money into the cesspool of Iraq.
We've got to make room on the train for these folks.

Harry, you make it sound as though your backgrounds were the same. Did
these immigrants (illegal, I assume), have a high school education,
followed by some college? Did they choose not to get educated, whereas
you
chose to get educated?


Did they choose to not get educated? No, they lived in a rural area in
a
country where not much education was afforded. They were poor and had
no
choice in the matter.

So if you are poor and in a rural areas of the country where "not much
education is afforded" you cannot go to college and succeed in life?





They're on the brink of financial disaster, yet they're making babies.
Wise
choice? What's different between these immigrants and your
grandparents?

They're Catholic. Devoit.

Not much. My grandparents were dirt poor when they got here and took
the
same sort of crap jobs.

But they went on to make the best of it.........right? Did they boycott?
Did they demand that the national language be changed to theirs? Did
they
come here to take advantage of our system?





Just for the hell of it, how much money do you think the government
should
give them every year? --
'Til next time,


I think we should give them a medical insurance card that gets them in
the
same queue as people with medical insurance, and allows them to get
needed
prescriptions for no cost to them or a minimal co-pay, and provide
convenient adult education services to help them learn English, US
skills,
and ways to get better job training and skills.


Free insurance, free education.......just for illegally coming here and
paying no taxes. What a deal!

Jim, if you think that every person in the U.S. has the same
opportunities to go to college, you're insane!


Remind me again where I said that.

Take rural Kentucky for
example. There was a documentary that I saw, this coal miner's kid
trying to succeed. Well, he was trying to finish high school, so that
he could get into a local junior college. Poor mother worked her butt
off as a motel maid, father disabled with black lung. Not much
insurance, bills piling up. The kid had to go to work to help support
his family. He worked at the local burger joint, while trying to stay
in school. He ended up having to quit, to make enough money to make
ends meet.
Do you think that kid had the same chance as a wealthy person's kid?



Nope and I never said or inferred that. But that kid can make it happen.
It all depends on whether or not he wants it enough. ;-)

Really? You never said that people "chose their destiny"?

On Fri, 05 May 2006 08:31:23 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

P. Fritz wrote:
"Ignatius Thistlewhite" wrote in message
. 8...
You wrote:


JimH wrote:
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.

If that were REALLY the case, then why aren't you as rich as Bill
Gates?

Isn't the liberal concept of "success" more rooted in saving the snail
darter than something as tawdry as money?


No, it is................"from each according to his ability, to each
according to his need"



Idiot boy Fritz is back.

Name-calling seems to be the best you can do, Harry!
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 04 May 2006 12:03:00 -0400, Harry Krause

wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Thu, 04 May 2006 11:27:19 -0400, Harry Krause

wrote:

Ignatius Thistlewhite wrote:
You wrote:

Ignatius Thistlewhite wrote:
You wrote:

JimH wrote:
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how
motivated
the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.
If that were REALLY the case, then why aren't you as rich as
Bill
Gates?
Isn't the liberal concept of "success" more rooted in saving
the
snail darter than something as tawdry as money?
No.

The liberal concept of success involves making sure there is
room
for everyone on the train leading to it.
Such a statement contradicts Mr. Bass Kisser, since it is
impossible
for everyone to be as rich as Bill Gates. Unless of course,
your
goal is to bring Gates down to others' level rather than
lifting
others up to his.
If this really is how you think, then you ought to check it for
a
brain scan, because your synapses aren't firing properly.
Why not explain your position, rather than make personal attacks,
Harry?

Or, has your position already been run off the tracks?
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

It's a simple concept, and shouldn't need any explanation.

Let's put it in terms of something even simpler.

Let's say I have to see a doctor because of a symptom that is
annoying
me.

He accommodates me the next day, at 9:30 AM.

Instead of going to work that morning, I show up at his office at
9:15
AM. I am shown in at 9:35, he checks me out, writes an Rx, and his
front
office calls it in for me.

I pay my $10 co-pay, am on the road, and am at work at 10:30. I am
not
docked a nickel, nor do I have to put in for any sort of medical
leave.
On the way home, I pick up my Rx, pay the $10 co-pay and I am on
my
way.

Mrs. Immigrant from Mexico, who is trying to get aboard the train,
so
far has only been able to wangle a job at Wal-Mart. Her employer,
despite the claims in its TV commercials, provides no health
insurance.
She calls the doctor on her lunch period. Her doctor handles
mostly
indigients and the office says she can't been seen for at least a
week,
and at 1:30 in the afternoon. To get there, she'll have to take
two
buses and leave at 8 AM. She has to take an entire day off from
work,
and receives no pay for that day.

The doctor tells her she has a condition that will require her to
take
two different prescriptions a day because she has a chronic
condition.
The two meds will cost her $357 a month or, if she is really
lucky,
one
of them may be on a list an Rx manufacturer provides at little or
no
cost for indigent patients. But she has to see her doctor every
two
months for a renewal. Another day of pay lost.

She has one child at home. Day care. Fortunately, her husband also
works, though at low wages, and they struggle. And struggle. And
every
time they seem to get a bit ahead, they get hit with something
else.

These hard-working people need a little help getting on the train,
so
they can travel on the road to success. If we don't slow down the
train
a little and help them climb aboard, they may never make. They
need a
better way to get health care, one that isn't so expensive or
difficult
to get to or that costs her a day of wages.

Because if they don't make it, we don't make it.

We're not talking riches here. We're talking a reasonable life
style,
with some sort of decent future for hard working people and their
kids
and, in this case, a reasonable way to access medical care for the
family.

I sure as hell don't mind helping them. Money spent on them to
help
them
along is surely better than pouring money into the cesspool of
Iraq.
We've got to make room on the train for these folks.

Harry, you make it sound as though your backgrounds were the same.
Did
these immigrants (illegal, I assume), have a high school education,
followed by some college? Did they choose not to get educated,
whereas
you
chose to get educated?


Did they choose to not get educated? No, they lived in a rural area
in
a
country where not much education was afforded. They were poor and
had
no
choice in the matter.

So if you are poor and in a rural areas of the country where "not much
education is afforded" you cannot go to college and succeed in life?





They're on the brink of financial disaster, yet they're making
babies.
Wise
choice? What's different between these immigrants and your
grandparents?

They're Catholic. Devoit.

Not much. My grandparents were dirt poor when they got here and took
the
same sort of crap jobs.

But they went on to make the best of it.........right? Did they
boycott?
Did they demand that the national language be changed to theirs? Did
they
come here to take advantage of our system?





Just for the hell of it, how much money do you think the government
should
give them every year? --
'Til next time,


I think we should give them a medical insurance card that gets them
in
the
same queue as people with medical insurance, and allows them to get
needed
prescriptions for no cost to them or a minimal co-pay, and provide
convenient adult education services to help them learn English, US
skills,
and ways to get better job training and skills.


Free insurance, free education.......just for illegally coming here
and
paying no taxes. What a deal!

Jim, if you think that every person in the U.S. has the same
opportunities to go to college, you're insane!


Remind me again where I said that.

Take rural Kentucky for
example. There was a documentary that I saw, this coal miner's kid
trying to succeed. Well, he was trying to finish high school, so that
he could get into a local junior college. Poor mother worked her butt
off as a motel maid, father disabled with black lung. Not much
insurance, bills piling up. The kid had to go to work to help support
his family. He worked at the local burger joint, while trying to stay
in school. He ended up having to quit, to make enough money to make
ends meet.
Do you think that kid had the same chance as a wealthy person's kid?



Nope and I never said or inferred that. But that kid can make it happen.
It all depends on whether or not he wants it enough. ;-)

Really? You never said that people "chose their destiny"?


Sigh Sorry Bassy but sometimes discussing things with you is like doing
so with a brick wall.

Have a nice weekend.

On Fri, 05 May 2006 16:33:24 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Fri, 05 May 2006 08:31:23 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

P. Fritz wrote:
"Ignatius Thistlewhite" wrote in message
. 8...
You wrote:


JimH wrote:
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.

If that were REALLY the case, then why aren't you as rich as Bill
Gates?

Isn't the liberal concept of "success" more rooted in saving the snail
darter than something as tawdry as money?


No, it is................"from each according to his ability, to each
according to his need"


Idiot boy Fritz is back.

Name-calling seems to be the best you can do, Harry!


Idiot boy Fritz isn't worth any more than that.

I'm sure you gave it your best shot, Harry.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Harry Krause wrote:
Ignatius Thistlewhite wrote:

You wrote:

JimH wrote:

If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.

If that were REALLY the case, then why aren't you as rich as Bill
Gates?


Isn't the liberal concept of "success" more rooted in saving the snail
darter than something as tawdry as money?


No.

The liberal concept of success involves making sure there is room for
everyone on the train leading to it.

Where did you read that?